YouTube Magic

Mar 29, 2008
882
3
This post is to address the RIDICULOUS number of Youtube magic posts. In this post, I want to first, point out the problems with Youtube magic posts, second, make you change the way and reason you post and lastly, give you some solid advice if you don’t want to stop posting Youtube magic.

The majority of close up magic is not meant to be held under the scrutiny of what has been called “the unblinking eye” of the camera. Allowing Youtube viewers to watch a trick, often done at bad angles, over and over again – breaks the cardinal rule of magic. Never repeat an effect – the first time is a good trick – the second time – a good lesson.

The majority of Youtube posts are done to ask for “advice” or the “how does this look” post. The problem with this is that the shot is at one angle and natural misdirection doesn’t occur in the same fashion when the frame is a computer screen – to really test your material, you must do it for a LIVE audience, not through the one way medium of video. This means that even if you post something PERFECT on your video, that it may not play the same in real world performance, because of different problems like, angles or timing wise, for example. Moreover, this kind of magic exposure is the start of what we are seeing in music – I won’t buy a CD because I can get the music for free – attitude. Imagine nobody hiring magicians, because they can download magic for free off Youtube. Furthermore, a significant problem with Youtube magic is that it makes magic less impressive – look up Jumping Gemini – not only will someone other that Darwin Ortiz get credited – changing history with inaccuracies – but you will see approximately 500 posts of the same effect, tutorials and the majority have flashes and poor handling.

Which brings me to my next point – tutorials? Many of the tutorial teachers, can’t even do the effect well?! They teach it with poor crediting and poor technique – but what even gives them the right to teach an effect? Did they improve on it? Did they change the handling? No – they have just exposed magic – and as a group we should educate and hold each other accountable for preventing exposure. This is another topic all together, and I know this simple post won’t prevent magicians from posting horrible magic on Youtube – so here are some tips to at least make sure you aren’t one of the magicians that is posting poor quality magic on Youtube.

RULES...X that - A FEW SUGGESTED GUIDELINES FOR YOUTUBE POSTING:

1) ONLY do effects that can be REPEATED WITHOUT EXPLANATION – this is where the method is solid enough to withstand being watch again and again by the viewer.

2) Don’t flash – let me repeat that DON’T FLASH – seems obvious? Well, it must not be – because I have seen very few videos that don’t flash something. The unblinking eye picks up everything, so watch your video with a critical eye – film and re-film until it looks FLAWLESS to the most critical observer.

3) Better than not flashing sleights – do effects that have NO MOVES – use self working effects or do the dirty work off camera

4) USE YOUR ADVANTAGES - you are on camera, so use everything to your advantage – edit, angles, gimmicks…whatever, just make sure the magic you do doesn’t reflect the method.

Here is an example of where the switches are done on camera – leading to the method – this guy has posted in this group, so it’s not a personal attack – but remember, you put yourself out there.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yGS1I_VssqY

Here is another example of something you watch once and then again to catch the moves – great magic, ruined by Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMqELYTROA

Lastly, an example of something you can watch again and again and not know the method if you are a lay audience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHq5z3ZkTyU

In conclusion – please, stop posting videos of close up magic on Youtube – keep the Magicians Oath and if you feel you must post – do it with care and credit properly.

As a reminder:

Magicians Oath

"As a magician I promise never to reveal the secret of any illusion to a non-magician, unless that one swears to uphold the Magician's Oath in turn. I promise never to perform any illusion for any non-magician without first practicing the effect until I can perform it well enough to maintain the illusion of magic."

" I promise I will always guard against exposing the secrets of magic, whether through lack of practice before performing, or through explanation to any person not entitled to know the secrets. I make this promise seriously, realizing that in violating it, I am not only violating my word of honor, but I am violating the trust and rights of all other magicians who, by the very nature of their form of entertainment, are entitled to the preservation of the secrets of magic."

Thanks.
 
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Mar 25, 2008
225
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Arkansas
This is not a personal attack, but remember, you put yourself out there.

Close up magic needs YOU to defend it like Chuck Norris needs pepper spray to keep from getting raped.

I think the point where you totally lost me (not that you ever had me) was when you suggested that there might be a day when people wouldn't hire magicians because they could just watch it on youtube. This is the single dumbest thing I have heard in about six months. And that is saying something, because I have some really stupid friends.

This little "essay" smacks of the same over-reaction that people had when magic started to be performed on television. In fact, I seem to remember some old letters to the editors of the magic magazines that sound word for word like you. And they were wrong. Dead wrong. And so are you.

I get it. You don't like magic on youtube. You think it exposes. You feel that magic secrets in general and close up specifically are fragile critters with bones that break easily. You feel that youtube performances make what you do less special and unique. Those are all perfectly fine and valid feelings and or opinions.

What is not fine and valid is your demand that people follow a set of rules that you set up as guidelines protecting your philosophy of magic.

No one elected you "Mommy". If youtube exposed every magic trick on earth, in super fine detail I would still go out tommorrow, do my show, and make the same bank. Know why?

Because no one on youtube can expose how I do my magic. I'm not talking about the effects. I'm talking about how I can walk into a party of 50 people who are all feeling awkward and out of place and turn it into THE room to be in.

I adhere to the magicians code of conduct, but you have taken it out of context. (By your thinking, why perform at all? You always run a risk of exposure or some extra clever person figuring out what you're doing. Better play it safe and put all your magic props under the bed where no one can find them.)

I hereby formally reject your "YouTube Rules". I think you know what you can do with them, and the pack of Tally Ho's you rode in on.
 
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Aug 31, 2007
1,960
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Long Island/New York
Mogician, I understand where your coming from. I get the whole concept of the "unblinking eye".

It's stupid for someone to ask "How does this look?" when it's not the same as being in the same room with the magician for misdirection and angles. Yeah, you can pull a Criss and cut scene's out of the shot to hide the moves, but what good is it?

About magic exposure, Your preaching to the quire. Yeah, we all don't like it, but we learn to live with it. I'm sure it makes everyone angry when we hear these words . . . . "I'll just go look it up on Youtube."

As for the concept of magicians not being hired from Youtube exposure, well I'd have to say that's beyond doubtful. Parents hire magicians for their kids birthday parties. I doubt a parent will say, "Hey, that's not real, I saw that trick on Youtube!" If that ever happened, I would start crying from laughing too hard. xD



I think Chase felt like you were "laying down the law" too much when you typed this in all capital letters. . . . .
RULES OF YOUTUBE POSTING:

1) ONLY do effects that can be REPEATED WITHOUT EXPLANATION – this is where the method is solid enough to withstand being watch again and again by the viewer.

2) Don’t flash – let me repeat that DON’T FLASH – seems obvious? Well, it must not be – because I have seen very few videos that don’t flash something. The unblinking eye picks up everything, so watch your video with a critical eye – film and re-film until it looks FLAWLESS to the most critical observer.

3) Better than not flashing sleights – do effects that have NO MOVES – use self working effects or do the dirty work off camera

4) USE YOUR ADVANTAGES - you are on camera, so use everything to your advantage – edit, angles, gimmicks…whatever, just make sure the magic you do doesn’t reflect the method.

Here is an example of where the switches are done on camera – leading to the method – this guy has posted in this group, so it’s not a personal attack – but remember, you put yourself out there.

Some of these are good suggestions, but their not rules that need to be followed. Chase was probably wondering, "Who does this guy think he is?"
(Chase, I'm only guessing. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry and will edit)

The magician's oath isn't a big deal nowadays. I wish it was, that would help us all out. People don't seem to care much about it anymore.
Maybe we'll write up a new one to keep the magic alive.
 
Mogician, I understand where your coming from. I get the whole concept of the "unblinking eye".

It's stupid for someone to ask "How does this look?" when it's not the same as being in the same room with the magician for misdirection and angles. Yeah, you can pull a Criss and cut scene's out of the shot to hide the moves, but what good is it?

About magic exposure, Your preaching to the quire. Yeah, we all don't like it, but we learn to live with it. I'm sure it makes everyone angry when we hear these words . . . . "I'll just go look it up on Youtube."

As for the concept of magicians not being hired from Youtube exposure, well I'd have to say that's beyond doubtful. Parents hire magicians for their kids birthday parties. I doubt a parent will say, "Hey, that's not real, I saw that trick on Youtube!" If that ever happened, I would start crying from laughing too hard. xD



I think Chase felt like you were "laying down the law" too much when you typed this in all capital letters. . . . .


Some of these are good suggestions, but their not rules that need to be followed. Chase was probably wondering, "Who does this guy think he is?"
(Chase, I'm only guessing. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry and will edit)

The magician's oath isn't a big deal nowadays. I wish it was, that would help us all out. People don't seem to care much about it anymore.
Maybe we'll write up a new one to keep the magic alive.

People or Magicians don't seem to care about it much these days?
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,960
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34
Long Island/New York
People or Magicians don't seem to care about it much these days?

Well to tell you the truth, I purposely wrote "People don't care for the magician's oath much these days" for a reason.

Reason I said "People", I meant people who think they are magicians by revealing tricks. I didn't want to call them magicians because their not. "Posers" would be a better word for it.

Their the "People" who don't respect the Magician's oath.

Wow, I'm surprised I got called on that.
Good eye!
 
Mar 25, 2008
225
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Arkansas
Harry Anderson once said (my paraphrase) that it's of no use to try and protect magic from things that might hurt it. There is only one thing that is good for magic: perform it well for an audience. No matter who or where that audience is.
Ignore everything else.

I'm just tired of people stomping on others who are having fun, and are doing what they know how to do.

Years ago, when we had vaudville theaters, there were "levels" of venue. You would start out in cheap theaters with cheap audiences, and work your way up as high as your proficiency and ability to entertain would take you. This was important because PERFORMERS NEED A PLACE TO BE BAD. Vaudeville gave you a place to do it.
You Tube is, in many ways, a new venue to be terrible in.

It is important too to interpret the view count on many of these effects. I've found that most of the really awful stuff out there has a low view count. Not all of it, but most. In the grand scheme of the world's population I'm not convinced that all that many people are being exposed to magic secrets through multiple viewings or flashing. Not that many people are looking.

What really stuck in my craw about the above post was the obvious slippery slope argument that he was using. That was just ridiculous.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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Thanks for the feedback Chase, or should I say personal attacks – I love the sarcasm, also known as humour for platitude quoting morons. I only wish that my thoughts fell into the minds of those that had minds to fall into and that magic morals still existed. I got something for you to grasp – it’s called respect for my thoughts and the realization that I love the same craft you do. I see a common trend in magic and have identified it as a concern – do I think it will END MAGIC – no, but it does hurt magic and if you clicked on my posts would see how the poor technique acts as exposure, maybe you would see what my base argument is. SO – if you are against my post, really you are fighting for poor technique to be captured on film and shown to what you think is a “minimal” audience, when you obviously don’t search YouTube enough to give an intelligent concept of “hit counts” over long term....as you might not realize...but the low counts you see...those videos remain for others to see after you have already view it. Unless you have done an academic study I am unaware of, compiling the statistics on the low frequency of hits on poor magic Youtube posts – or are you just counting your own hits? Also, if so few see it...why is it on there at all? Moreover, I don’t think the argument for solid technique used in the right situation deserved the harsh words you brought forth. I wonder if you bring that same attitude to your performance, with the chip on your shoulder, and when you think you are “the man” you are really just a distraction from an awkward party.

Your condescending posts are not only uncalled for, but completely unprofessional – you have no idea who I am – and because you assume I am a “nobody”, you knock my efforts to share an opinion, while I was not attacking ANYONE in particular. You Chase, are the reason that magic forums are disgraceful and real growth cannot be achieved in this forum.
I made those “rules” to help a young man, 12 years of age, with strengthening his Youtube posts – moreover, you can’t say that any of my suggestions are not valid points...points that maybe you considered in your magic, because you knew better , but how many don’t. The “rules” were meant to guide the new or unsure, not the experienced, and can be ignored at your own peril. However, you chose to answer my post – but instead of being positive and adding or discussing, you attacked. You are as bad as a spectator that has to look good in front of his friends because of his underlined insecurities – and rips the cards out of your hands to prove he is better.
Your immaturity is blinding, and if I ever have a chance to meet you in real life, I am most certain you would apologize, as you would see that I have dedicated my life to be as good as I can be at close up magic. I think we all strive for that, but, unlike you Chase, I don’t have to knock others down on my way. Real winners don’t – and Chuck Norris can round house kick you in the face if you don’t agree with that...killing you and your entire family...then impregnating every women you ever wished to be with...but don’t worry – he will name all the illegitimate kids after you...before round house kicking them to death.


Do I think that Youtube magic will end live performance – NO – but I do know that people are seeing more magic...and more BAD magic.
The real essence is this – exposure is exposure – and DannyT, people don’t care about the Oath – but perhaps we should, out of respect. To prevent the...I am going to look it up on Youtube for all, even if it doesn’t affect you. I personally, haven’t had that happen, but I have heard others talk about it – and it’s too bad. We all ignore it – what good does that do. Guys, I don’t rape women...but women get raped in the world. You can ignore it, but that doesn’t make it okay. I personally, want to speak out against things I feel are not just or fair – this may not be as serious as violence against women, but if magic was the lady – she is certainly being sexually assaulted in some form when Youtube tutorials and poor magic is done on video. It adds up Chase – 500 vids just on Jumping Gemini...your response really surprises me. I thought people would debate this, but I expected kind words and perhaps some understanding of the meaning and reason behind the words.

I don’t think I have taken the Oath out of context – putting poor technique Youtube videos that have multiple flashes and allows for dissection of technique is magic malpractice – does it affect me personally? No – but it is still something that we should discuss. I am pretty sure that what Harry Anderson said...and you quoted...I asked for, but on Youtube. I think you felt it was a rant – it wasn’t a rant, but a request for young magicians to be more careful with the videos they post as final product.
“I'm just tired of people stomping on others who are having fun, and are doing what they know how to do.” Then be tired of yourself Chase – as I stomped on nobody, but requested a higher level of magic shared in the community and more importantly outside of it. A higher standard of deception. I won’t lower my standards because you can’t communicate intellectually and without being ignorant.
If you ever want to have a serious discussion, PM me – I will GLADLY give you my number, or you can share yours and we can have an adult conversation so you can really know who I am – rather than talking down to me – how about formulating something of substance that counters my argument or helps clarify a point I wrote when on my break at work to help out a newbie.

In other words, how about an academic approach – When Tom Mullica exposed the cut and restored napkin on “World’s Greatest Magicians”, he was crucified by his peers – yet, hundreds of poor magic posts are done by your peers and you accept it as no big deal...and it isn’t...as it doesn’t affect you and I. However, there is a problem with it – the problem is that you are not willing to stand up to your brothers in magic and say – “I care enough about you to want you to be better – for yourself – your audiences – and for magic”. Do you disagree that it will make us all better in the long run?

You appear to be a very selfish and self centered man – but that is apparent by your posts. Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts – I wish I could have returned the favour...but I came up empty.
 
Sep 2, 2007
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'.killing you and your entire family...then impregnating every women you ever wished to be with...but don’t worry – he will name all the illegitimate kids after you...before round house kicking them to death.'

Woah take a chill pill! There is no need to curse that guy's family, even if he disagrees with your perspective. That's very low and reflects a lot on your personality or the lack of it.

Take it easy!
 
Mar 25, 2008
225
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Arkansas
Morgician,

I appreciate the edits that have been made, apparently to tone down the dogmatic connotation that the original post had for me.

I promise you that I do not assume you are a "nobody". I learned that lesson when I gave Roger Klaus the cold shoulder as a teenager when I didn't know who that "old man" was. I try not to repeat those mistakes.

You also do not know who I am (I don't think you do anyways.) To jump to the conclusions that you did about me from two posts that disagreed with you is unfair.

Ill try to answer some points you made in your last post.

I love the sarcasm, also known as humour for platitude quoting morons.
Oh, come on. That sarcasm was funny.

I only wish that my thoughts fell into the minds of those that had minds to fall into and that magic morals still existed. I got something for you to grasp – it’s called respect for my thoughts and the realization that I love the same craft you do.
I have very high magic morals. I do not steal material. I am liberal with crediting other magicians. I refuse to professionally perform other magicians material EVEN IN PRINT without their express permission TO ME. I am not an amoral performer. This characterization is unfair, and I feel it is based on the fact that I strongly disagree with you.
I also gave you respect for your thoughts and opinions. I even expressly stated that they are valid. I repeat: what is not valid is stating them in another unbreakable code. You have edited this content and I appreciate that fact. I do believe that you love magic. I disagree almost completely with what you think is important to Magic's health.

and if you clicked on my posts would see how the poor technique acts as exposure, maybe you would see what my base argument is. SO – if you are against my post, really you are fighting for poor technique to be captured on film and shown to what you think is a “minimal” audience,
I did look at the performances. I hardly think that Joshua Jay's technique was poor. I also disagree with your assessment of Juan Tameriz's car routine. I saw this 20 years ago when I was just beginning in magic and immediately knew how this effect was accomplished. To me it is NOT an effect that stands up to repeated viewings. In fact, I don't even like the idea of having a second spectator push the car.

when you obviously don’t search YouTube enough to give an intelligent concept of “hit counts” over long term...why is it on there at all?
I stand by my argument that these are relatively few viewers. The camel cigarette ads exposing magic in newspapers and the masked magician both reached greater audiences than these youtube vids, and magic survived. It's just not that many people, and people have short memories anyways.

Moreover, I don’t think the argument for solid technique used in the right situation deserved the harsh words you brought forth.
I'm sorry you felt it was too harsh. I feel your original post was too harsh. Touche.

I wonder if you bring that same attitude to your performance, with the chip on your shoulder, and when you think you are “the man” you are really just a distraction from an awkward party.
I know this is going to sound cocky and feed your already poor opinion of me... but my repeat business would suggest that this is not true.

Your condescending posts are not only uncalled for, but completely unprofessional – you have no idea who I am – and because you assume I am a “nobody”, you knock my efforts to share an opinion
I did not knock your efforts to share an opinion. I knocked your opinion. I support your right to have it. It is, however, MY opinion that you are completely wrong. And, I feel that my posts WERE called for. You posted on an open forum. I disagree, and believe that the anti-youtube attitudes that have been building on forums like this are not helping.

You Chase, are the reason that magic forums are disgraceful and real growth cannot be achieved in this forum.
Really?... It's all my fault? Surely Thrallmind and DummyisDumb have helped a little. Let's give credit where credit is due.

moreover, you can’t say that any of my suggestions are not valid points.
Sure I can. For example, I have used YouTube as a method for other magicians to look at routines I am working on and are in their infancy. Sometimes I am looking for advice on pace and plot while I know that my moves are not up to the standard I want. This is a perfectly valid use of youtube that does not fall within your rules.

However, you chose to answer my post – but instead of being positive and adding or discussing, you attacked.
I did attack the opinions and tone that I disagreed with. I apologize if you took this as personal. It is not about YOU. It is about your OPINIONS expressed. I seperate your worth from your opinions.

You are as bad as a spectator that has to look good in front of his friends because of his underlined insecurities – and rips the cards out of your hands to prove he is better.
Wow. Below the belt. Did you have a bad spectator experience? What kind of crowd are you performing for?

"Your immaturity is blinding, and if I ever have a chance to meet you in real life, I am most certain you would apologize, as you would see that I have dedicated my life to be as good as I can be at close up magic."
I plan to be at the IBM/SAM, MindVention, and will have an open show in SanDiego the week of ComiCon. PM me. We'll have a nice civil coffee together. You can show me close up. I'll just sit there and be blinding. I'm serious about this. I'd like to meet you.

I think we all strive for that, but, unlike you Chase, I don’t have to knock others down on my way. Real winners don’t
I am not attempting to knock you down. I am attempting to knock down opinions you have, that are, in my opinion, bad. And I am a winner. I have several ribbons from middle school.

and Chuck Norris can round house kick you in the face if you don’t agree with that...killing you and your entire family...then impregnating every women you ever wished to be with...but don’t worry – he will name all the illegitimate kids after you...before round house kicking them to death.
Wow. Just.... wow.
 
Mar 25, 2008
225
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Arkansas
Do I think that Youtube magic will end live performance – NO
You definitely implied that you did, and that youtube was the napster of magic. Hey kids... remember Napster? Good lord I'm old.

but I do know that people are seeing more magic...and more BAD magic.
Me too. But I blame Criss Angel. Not really. I actually don't know if MORE people are seeing magic from a percentage of population standpoint, which is what would really count. Kids certainly don't see it on their mass media. I think that maybe, percentage wise, more people saw magic in the 70's. With the exception of some viral Cyril videos.

The real essence is this – exposure is exposure
No, it's not. You can't deny that teaching is exposure. But it's not the same as (cue spooky music) "ExPoSuRe". I recently saw a nationally known performer botch the Lion Cage illusion due to a tech glitch. The illusion was exposed, but it was not "Exposure".

We all ignore it – what good does that do. Guys, I don’t rape women...but women get raped in the world. You can ignore it, but that doesn’t make it okay. I personally, want to speak out against things I feel are not just or fair – this may not be as serious as violence against women, but if magic was the lady – she is certainly being sexually assaulted in some form when Youtube tutorials and poor magic is done on video.
Yes, but you don't get to make rules for the general population controlling their behavior to reduce their chances of committing or being the victim of assault. I'm done with this analogy. It's getting icky.

I thought people would debate this, but I expected kind words and perhaps some understanding of the meaning and reason behind the words.
I understand. I disagree. Vehemently. I am sorry, again, if it felt personal. It is about your opinion.

I don’t think I have taken the Oath out of context – putting poor technique Youtube videos that have multiple flashes and allows for dissection of technique is magic malpractice
I think you are. Lots of magicians take liberty with the code for good reason. For example anyone who does a gambling sleight demonstration. They are not maintaining the illusion of magic. The code is there to be obeyed in spirit, not letter. To require an excited 12 year old to hold to the same standard as a seasoned performer is unreasonable. It exhausts you and it annoys the pig.
Magic malpractice is prescribing a treatment for a condition that is part of natural progression. You don't give pills to a kid suffering from puberty. You help him endure it.

it wasn’t a rant, but a request for young magicians to be more careful with the videos they post as final product.
I felt it was originally worded as a demand. You seem to have softened the wording. i appreciate that.

I stomped on nobody, but requested a higher level of magic shared in the community and more importantly outside of it. A higher standard of deception.
Yes. Your standard. And, again, I'm not sure it was a request.

When Tom Mullica exposed the cut and restored napkin on “World’s Greatest Magicians”, he was crucified by his peers
I sincerely don't remember Tom being crucified by his peers. And neither does he. Several performers questioned whether this effect was too "good" to reveal and Max Maven bopped him in a public way in print. The crucifying came from the hobbyists who wrote letters to the editor. And, incidentally, this piece was exposed and it KILLS now. No one remembers.

However, there is a problem with it – the problem is that you are not willing to stand up to your brothers in magic and say – “I care enough about you to want you to be better
I am willing to stand up and help anyone who is interested in being helped. Ask around. I've given time, advice, props, and bookings to others.

Do you disagree that it will make us all better in the long run?
I think that lists of rules will not help. I think that demands on kids who want to be special by learning some tricks will not help magic.

You appear to be a very selfish and self centered man – but that is apparent by your posts.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Many would disagree with you. I would disagree with you. I am very giving and generous. Maybe we can learn more about each other so that we can be secure in disagreeing with each other without feeling personally attacked. I would like that. (No Sarcasm. Promise.)

Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts
Well.... mentalist!

I wish I could have returned the favour...but I came up empty.
Don't feel bad. I wear a special helmet.

If my original post seems short and flippant, hopefully this one makes up for it. The length alone should assure you that I do take this topic seriously. Don't mistake my passion in disagreement for being ignorant or just hateful.
 
Sep 2, 2007
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oh wait, better reply to this thread lest i get the hairdryer treatment from you,Morgician! :)

And you know what? i totally AGREE with morgician but there really is nothing anyone can do about kids posting half-baked tutorials/performances on youtube. The 'self-realization' or 'maturity' to guard the integrity of magic will only come after much dedication to the art. I think there was another thread with a similar topic which discussed about maturity VS young age of magic performers. Sorry i digress.

No point worrying about things we cannot change. We only have to owe it to ourselves as individual students of the art to uphold its secrets and to present it in a positive light! We can be angry or scold these 'youtubers' but if they are stubborn or feel what they do is 'right', then it's a lost cause.

For my case, i just got unicoin, and while practicing, i'm thinking If i cannot do it as clean and as smooth as Kenner, i will NEVER never ever perform it for anyone else. Maybe you think i set the bar too high for myself? but i think magic deserves this much. My point is, we have to realize the responsibility OURSELVES.

Just my .02 :)
 
Mar 25, 2008
225
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Arkansas
Often in my own passion I write things that can be interpreted as mean spirited.
I apologize if I seemed to have treated Morgician with a lack of respect.

I hope I can make it clear that my differences are with his opinions. I believe he is wrong. I hope that it was clear that any ridicule was pointed toward the ideas. Not Morgician's abilities, faculties, or person.
 
Sep 2, 2007
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Hey Chase why are you apologizing?

In my humble opinion, morgician owe you one! No matter how much we disagree or have differing viewpoints, cursing at family is just plain wrong. That's just low EQ!

Becoming a better magician AND a gentleman, go hand in hand together.
 
Aug 31, 2007
467
1
Canada
Harry Anderson once said (my paraphrase) that it's of no use to try and protect magic from things that might hurt it. There is only one thing that is good for magic: perform it well for an audience. No matter who or where that audience is.
Ignore everything else. . . .

This is the smartest thing you've posted here, everything after this basically goes to contradict it.

THIS is what Morgician is saying we should ALL demand of ourselves. And this is EXACTLY what almost every single youtube magician does NOT do.


"There is only one thing that is good for magic: perform it well for an audience."

Perform it WELL!!! This is where Youtube goes wrong, and I am not just talking about poor technique, performing well means knowing the medium. Performing Metamorphosis during a walk around gig would not be performing magic well. Your magic must be appropriate to the circumstances.

Performing something in a scenario where it can be reviewed over and over, by an unblinking eye demands flawless magic for it to be performing magic WELL.
 
May 5, 2008
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Gentlemen, I know how it feels when someone blurts out a method they found on youtube, or when you get caught red handed on a move and the room now thinks of you as a trickster and not anything more. But the fear of exposure via youtube is only the concern of the person loosing money. The creator and seller of the effect. Even so, I would be forced to assume that even tho exposure is bad, perhaps it has done some good? Let me continue before you bash me with names and cast me out faster than a teacher with a toothpick. I am no advocate of exposure by any means, but lets try to see another point of view shall we? I would contest that the increase of exposure has done some good (and bad). With the onset of exposure via youtube, the production level of magic videos, books, and pdfs has increased 10 fold. I remember the early days of L&L publishing and how BAD... HORRIBLE... EMBARRASSING the production was. You felt like such a dork even watching it, but the content was top notch and very helpful. That production just won't fly anymore, I suggest the idea that youtube exposure has caused enough pain to publishers to where they have to make the DVD actually valuable (granted I know this is not the only reason, but perhaps a small factor none the less). Also, consider the content now given in dvds. We all know that you can find exposure for about any trick... indecent, stigmata, even subway! If you own those effects, (and only if you own them) take a few moments and try to track down exposure videos... go on, I'll wait... back? ok. What did you see? Did you laugh? Do you feel ripped off for buying the dvd? I didn't think so. We all know there is so much MORE to the dvd than just the simple effect (witness). There's lies the quality and value. Finally, population... yes that has something to do with it. This thread starts by mentioning the vast amount of magic on youtube, and there is a bit, but you can take all the magic videos on youtube and shadow them only using youtube clips from (pick a N64 video game). Point is, it SEEMS like a lot... but in the grand scheme of population, its still rather small. The average person really doesn't care that much... no, the average person doesn't care AT ALL. They really don't. Sure maybe you performed at school and some peer went and youtubed it and basically pissed in your cereal... but you should know you audience (and not perform at school like that). The world isn't falling apart and you are still amazing to 99.9% of the population. We get so caught up in these things we forget why we do this (I'm guilty of this as well). As for exposure in general, all I have to say is: Dai Vernon, Penn&Tellar, and The Amazing Jonathan. If your still sweating "exposure after reading all this... go find a mirror and practice, you'll feel better and things will be fine.

###lazydog
 
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