A buyer's opinion

Apr 26, 2013
7
0
I have been doing magic for quite a while now but unfortunately I have been on and off due to school and other complications (soccer, drama, songwriting, etc), but in my free time I have always made time to come up with new ideas for tricks. Some are obviously not Wire ready as they were simply ideas, but I do believe some are. Because it has been a little while I would appreciate it if I could get a buyers opinion of whether these tricks (listed below) are worthy of the Wire based on their description. I understand that simply a description can not do a trick justice but at the moment I'm just taking baby steps with all of this and just wanted to know whether a "Wire buyer" would take interest in these sorts of tricks.

1. Two coins are taken (can be borrowed depends on the situation) and the spectator and the magician each sign one side of each coin. The signatures can be shown and the one coin is placed on the spectator's palm while the magician takes the other coin places it on top of the other coin and slowly rubs them together. Instantly and visually two of the signatures switch places so that the magician's two signatures are on one coin while the spectator's appear on the other. Everything can be examined and most magicians probably own the gimmick to make the trick.

2. An empty soda can is borrowed and the tab is ripped off. The soda can is the held by the spectator one hand on the bottom and another on the top. The tab is then slammed through and then taken out. Once more this occurs but this time the tab appears under the can on the spectator's palm. Everything may be borrowed.

3. My take on the "king catching" effect (don't know what else to call it) where I create a routine based on what I love about these effects along with some of my own flair. (Email me for more explanation if you are curious rtesman@gmail.com)

4. A series of color changes that are all very visual impromptu and most of them are very easy to do.\

5. An empty tic-tac box is shown and examined by the spectators. A borrowed coin is then taken and signed, and put right behind the box. The two are shaken and instantly the spectator may hear the coin rattling inside the box. Instantly everything can be handed for examination and if you are adventurous you may give the coin in the box as a gift. Gimmick must be made but it has never been found by the spectators... so far :)

6. A dime or penny is borrowed and then can be signed (depends on the version of the trick that is being performed). Next the cellophane from a card box is slid down and the is thrown or sinks right through it (depending on the version). Then coin is shown and everything is laid over the magician's palm. The coin then passes right through the cellophane in his palm.

If you got through all this thank you SO MUCH I really appreciate it. Hopefully these are things that you want to see on the market and if not I'm sorry I wasted your time. Like I said this is not all, I still have much more to come. If you have any questions feel free to email me at rtesman@gmail.com. Thanks for your time I appreciate it.
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,826
2,917
1. Two coins are taken (can be borrowed depends on the situation) and the spectator and the magician each sign one side of each coin. The signatures can be shown and the one coin is placed on the spectator's palm while the magician takes the other coin places it on top of the other coin and slowly rubs them together. Instantly and visually two of the signatures switch places so that the magician's two signatures are on one coin while the spectator's appear on the other. Everything can be examined and most magicians probably own the gimmick to make the trick.

Alex Pandrea had Coin Waltz out - same idea.

2. An empty soda can is borrowed and the tab is ripped off. The soda can is the held by the spectator one hand on the bottom and another on the top. The tab is then slammed through and then taken out. Once more this occurs but this time the tab appears under the can on the spectator's palm. Everything may be borrowed.

Breakthrough by the Mengel Brothers

3. My take on the "king catching" effect (don't know what else to call it) where I create a routine based on what I love about these effects along with some of my own flair. (Email me for more explanation if you are curious rtesman@gmail.com)

4. A series of color changes that are all very visual impromptu and most of them are very easy to do.\

Not enough information to form an opinion.

5. An empty tic-tac box is shown and examined by the spectators. A borrowed coin is then taken and signed, and put right behind the box. The two are shaken and instantly the spectator may hear the coin rattling inside the box. Instantly everything can be handed for examination and if you are adventurous you may give the coin in the box as a gift. Gimmick must be made but it has never been found by the spectators... so far :)

I think Marcus Eddy and Daniel Garcia both have things like this. And maybe Wayne Houchin - For a while it seemed like everyone was releasing Tic-Tac Box tricks.

6. A dime or penny is borrowed and then can be signed (depends on the version of the trick that is being performed). Next the cellophane from a card box is slid down and the is thrown or sinks right through it (depending on the version). Then coin is shown and everything is laid over the magician's palm. The coin then passes right through the cellophane in his palm.

There was one by ... Uh, nope, can't remember. Anyway, any small object was produced under the cellophane. Probably uses a similar method.

In short - I think it's good your creating and such, but you need to do a lot more learning before you worry about releasing anything.
 
Nov 23, 2014
6
1
6. A dime or penny is borrowed and then can be signed (depends on the version of the trick that is being performed). Next the cellophane from a card box is slid down and the is thrown or sinks right through it (depending on the version). Then coin is shown and everything is laid over the magician's palm. The coin then passes right through the cellophane in his palm.

There was one by ... Uh, nope, can't remember. Anyway, any small object was produced under the cellophane. Probably uses a similar method.

Daniel Garcia had something like this on his Project Vol. 2, called "Bad Habbit", where he uses the cellophane of a cigarette box.
 
Apr 26, 2013
7
0
Alex Pandrea had Coin Waltz out - same idea.


Breakthrough by the Mengel Brothers



Not enough information to form an opinion.


I think Marcus Eddy and Daniel Garcia both have things like this. And maybe Wayne Houchin - For a while it seemed like everyone was releasing Tic-Tac Box tricks.



There was one by ... Uh, nope, can't remember. Anyway, any small object was produced under the cellophane. Probably uses a similar method.


In short - I think it's good your creating and such, but you need to do a lot more learning before you worry about releasing anything.

1. Actually they are not because he takes two coins and slams them together to make one, while mine switches the signature on the coins. Furthermore my trick does not require a gimmick that goes on your arm and runs the rick of falling off. Finally there would a major price difference between the two. (I apologize if I sound rude, Im just trying to justify myself)
2. Price Difference
I use the tab off their can
Their are two separate elements to the trick (passing through the can AND appearing under the spectator's hand)
3. Completely Understand
5. Pretty sure I've got a different method but will definitely keep that in mind.
6. Understood

What do you mean by "learning" because from what I've been told by many magicians I'm on the right track and doing fine. Obviously everyone learns from magic but I'm puzzled by what you meant. Because to me you have implied that learning means buying tricks because of the creator's names, not learning based on what magic is really about…Pleasing the audience (Again sorry if I sound rude, just trying to help myself.)
 
Jun 13, 2013
62
0
Hampton Roads, VA
You shouldn't take offense to any of the things that have been said here, it was you who was looking for the opinions of magicians. Before you think too much about releasing tricks of your own, it's important that you have a masterful grasp on the mechanics of performance itself; not only performing your own tricks but in the theory of magic in general.

To really effectively call a trick your own and teach it to others, you need to understand the tricks that are presented similarly to your trick (or may have contributions/additions) and what makes your trick really different. If your trick uses a similar method or presentation of an effect, it's not really a new trick so much as a variation. To teach a trick to someone else, you have to understand everything that makes your trick tick - the psychology, the handling, and what exactly makes it appealing to a spectator. This comes with performing a trick hundreds of times, and to really teach someone how to handle a trick you will have to know what it's like to fail with it as well (that can be even harder!)

I think when ChristopherT says you have learning to do he's really referring to the experience and knowledge that a magician can only accrue through time, practice, and study. If you feel like you and your tricks are already up to par, then why look for our opinions? Just submit them and see how they're received; that's really the only way you'll know for sure.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,826
2,917
What do you mean by "learning" because from what I've been told by many magicians I'm on the right track and doing fine. Obviously everyone learns from magic but I'm puzzled by what you meant. Because to me you have implied that learning means buying tricks because of the creator's names, not learning based on what magic is really about…Pleasing the audience (Again sorry if I sound rude, just trying to help myself.)

The point I'm trying to make is that much of what you're describing is either recreations or slight variations of existing tricks. Do you really want to develop the reputation of being someone who just puts out versions of other people's tricks? "It's like Breakthrough - but cheaper!" That kind of thing sticks with you for a long time.

When I say "You need to do a lot more learning" is just that. Not necessarily buying tricks because a certain person releases them. Actually, I prefer books - there is generally a LOT more information in books than in trick videos. However, the longer you spend just learning magic in general, the more you will understand how difficult it is to come up with something new. Magic has probably been around for more than a thousand years. Some incredibly smart people have been doing magic over that period and they have come up with a lot of really smart things.

I will also note - everyone "invents" stuff that's been done before. Last year I came up with a routine I was very proud of - a fear divination with a ritual at the end to remove it - Went over great with my audiences. Turns out, Luke Jermay published a routine that was almost identical about a decade ago I think. The only way you can know if you've recreated someone else's work is by learning more about magic in general.

Further - the recent push in the magic world seems to be to create tricks just to sell them. That's lame. This mentality is creating an extremely incestuous environment. The methods that come out of this mind set are geared towards fooling magicians when that's the last thing a performer should be worrying about. Magic is all about creating an incredible experience for the audience. They don't give a flying so-and-so for the method (If you're performing correctly). They care about how you make them feel and what you make them think. This focus on creating for the purpose of releasing is flooding the market with crap that audiences don't care about.
 
Apr 26, 2013
7
0
The point I'm trying to make is that much of what you're describing is either recreations or slight variations of existing tricks. Do you really want to develop the reputation of being someone who just puts out versions of other people's tricks? "It's like Breakthrough - but cheaper!" That kind of thing sticks with you for a long time.

When I say "You need to do a lot more learning" is just that. Not necessarily buying tricks because a certain person releases them. Actually, I prefer books - there is generally a LOT more information in books than in trick videos. However, the longer you spend just learning magic in general, the more you will understand how difficult it is to come up with something new. Magic has probably been around for more than a thousand years. Some incredibly smart people have been doing magic over that period and they have come up with a lot of really smart things.

I will also note - everyone "invents" stuff that's been done before. Last year I came up with a routine I was very proud of - a fear divination with a ritual at the end to remove it - Went over great with my audiences. Turns out, Luke Jermay published a routine that was almost identical about a decade ago I think. The only way you can know if you've recreated someone else's work is by learning more about magic in general.

Further - the recent push in the magic world seems to be to create tricks just to sell them. That's lame. This mentality is creating an extremely incestuous environment. The methods that come out of this mind set are geared towards fooling magicians when that's the last thing a performer should be worrying about. Magic is all about creating an incredible experience for the audience. They don't give a flying so-and-so for the method (If you're performing correctly). They care about how you make them feel and what you make them think. This focus on creating for the purpose of releasing is flooding the market with crap that audiences don't care about.

Thank you I appreciate the honesty and the advice.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,967
1,101
Utah
Alex Pandrea had Coin Waltz out - same idea.



Breakthrough by the Mengel Brothers



Not enough information to form an opinion.



I think Marcus Eddy and Daniel Garcia both have things like this. And maybe Wayne Houchin - For a while it seemed like everyone was releasing Tic-Tac Box tricks.



There was one by ... Uh, nope, can't remember. Anyway, any small object was produced under the cellophane. Probably uses a similar method.

In short - I think it's good your creating and such, but you need to do a lot more learning before you worry about releasing anything.

Just because it is a similar effect doesn't mean it is not original. If that were true then we would be stuck with a hundred old methods. It is possible that the tricks he lists are very different than the tricks you list.

When someone says "I can make a coin vanish" you sound like a noob when you say "It's already been done, with a false take" You completely ignore other methods that have their merit. Things like the Raven, Sankey's Messiah vanish or even just the French drop. All of these have stark differences in method and performing conditions only a noob would fail to recognize that.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,826
2,917
Just because it is a similar effect doesn't mean it is not original. If that were true then we would be stuck with a hundred old methods. It is possible that the tricks he lists are very different than the tricks you list.

When someone says "I can make a coin vanish" you sound like a noob when you say "It's already been done, with a false take" You completely ignore other methods that have their merit. Things like the Raven, Sankey's Messiah vanish or even just the French drop. All of these have stark differences in method and performing conditions only a noob would fail to recognize that.

Did you seriously just try to use the word 'noob' in a serious manner?

The point being he's asking us our opinion and providing what seem like descriptions of things that are on the market. While a trick being 10% different does 'technically' make it unique, I personally am pretty tired of seeing people trying to eek out a reputation by creating clone after clone of what's already on the market. There's very little out there that's worth it when it's only a minor variation like that. Usually these minor variations exist because someone wanted to create a product, but didn't have the foundational knowledge to do so, so they just took what exists and made a minor change. That change is often not even solving any problems - they just made a change so they could claim it was their own.

I am not saying that's what the OP did - but given the information I have available, my opinion is that what he's describing has already been published.
 
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