Advancing our art! Time to start caring about our audience.

Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
How are we going to take the art of magic to the next level and how are we going to get magic to be more well respected as an art form by the general public?

This is a topic i see all the time and magicians love to have endless discussions about it but i never feel that the discussions gets us anywhere closer to an answer.

My answer would be, it will when we REALLY start to care about our audience and ONLY try to see it from their perspective. Let me explain what i mean.

We see effects all the time, old and new and 1000s of variations to follow. Have you ever asked a creator of an effect whats so good about his effect? Or asked whats so good about some magicians favourite effects? Well if you haven´t you should and see if you get a good answer or even if they have a answer at all.

To get a good answer to that question is very rare, why? Because most magicians dont know. You wont get an answer like this

- "Oh, i have this great pressentation to the effect that makes really entertaining"
- "I have a really funny line that makes the whole effect really entertaining"
- "I have a story to tell with the trick that really connects with people on a deep personal level and the effect is really astonishing"


You will get something like

- "Oh, the method is new, its really cool, it has never been done before!"
- "Its a streamlined version, you dont need to do a pass!"
- "It really fools them! and its easy!!"

See, most of the time we only focus on what Darwin Ortiz calls "The inner reallity" of the magic effects. Methods, new concepts, new moves etc

The Inner reallity of our art is advancing and developing all the time, we create new methods, new concepts, new effects. Sadly our audience does not know this, nor do they see it or notice it and nor do they care!

Effects are marketed all the times as "NEW METHODS! NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE!" and magicians go crazy and thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sadly the audience does not know about this, nor will they never care about this.

So when are we going to start to think about what really matters and whats seen about the audience? that Darwin Ortiz calls "The outer reallity" which is the effect itself, not the method but the END RESULT of the method, our presentation, how to put together a entertaining act etc.

It is VERY rare that magicians talk about this at all.

I mean i think its ridiculous that discussions such as Gimmicks vs No gimmicks, sleights vs self workers, set up vs impromptu even exists. We sould only care about what our audience sees! The end result is the only important.

When are we going to realise that the audience does not care if we can do a perfect pass or 100 center deals a minute, the audience wants a good show, nothing more.

So when we start to focus on whats really entertaining and on putting together great shows i think we will get more respect.

No one cares if you can do the latest hardest sleights.
 

JD

Jul 5, 2009
638
1
Longview, Texas
How are we going to take the art of magic to the next level and how are we going to get magic to be more well respected as an art form by the general public?

This is a topic i see all the time and magicians love to have endless discussions about it but i never feel that the discussions gets us anywhere closer to an answer.

My answer would be, it will when we REALLY start to care about our audience and ONLY try to see it from their perspective. Let me explain what i mean.

We see effects all the time, old and new and 1000s of variations to follow. Have you ever asked a creator of an effect whats so good about his effect? Or asked whats so good about some magicians favourite effects? Well if you haven´t you should and see if you get a good answer or even if they have a answer at all.

To get a good answer to that question is very rare, why? Because most magicians dont know. You wont get an answer like this

- "Oh, i have this great pressentation to the effect that makes really entertaining"
- "I have a really funny line that makes the whole effect really entertaining"
- "I have a story to tell with the trick that really connects with people on a deep personal level and the effect is really astonishing"


You will get something like

- "Oh, the method is new, its really cool, it has never been done before!"
- "Its a streamlined version, you dont need to do a pass!"
- "It really fools them! and its easy!!"

See, most of the time we only focus on what Darwin Ortiz calls "The inner reallity" of the magic effects. Methods, new concepts, new moves etc

The Inner reallity of our art is advancing and developing all the time, we create new methods, new concepts, new effects. Sadly our audience does not know this, nor do they see it or notice it and nor do they care!

Effects are marketed all the times as "NEW METHODS! NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE!" and magicians go crazy and thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sadly the audience does not know about this, nor will they never care about this.

So when are we going to start to think about what really matters and whats seen about the audience? that Darwin Ortiz calls "The outer reallity" which is the effect itself, not the method but the END RESULT of the method, our presentation, how to put together a entertaining act etc.

It is VERY rare that magicians talk about this at all.

I mean i think its ridiculous that discussions such as Gimmicks vs No gimmicks, sleights vs self workers, set up vs impromptu even exists. We sould only care about what our audience sees! The end result is the only important.

When are we going to realise that the audience does not care if we can do a perfect pass or 100 center deals a minute, the audience wants a good show, nothing more.

So when we start to focus on whats really entertaining and on putting together great shows i think we will get more respect.

No one cares if you can do the latest hardest sleights.

You win dear sir. :)
 
I would agree with you on many of this. Although I still fail at it I have designed a routine (my FATE routine) around just entertaining my audience and providing life lessons into my act. This helps me bond with my audience and takes the question away from "How did he do that?". It creates more of conviction with the audience than deception.

If you study the art of theater it will help with focusing more on the presentation and how it looks from the audience's POV than from the magician's POV.

Good rule to keep in mind is that the audience pays for what they see, not what they don't see.
 
Sep 26, 2007
591
5
Tokyo, Japan
The problem with your point is, it seems that you only think there is one way to enjoy magic as a hobby.

Let me put this another way.

Some of what you are saying is like telling someone who is a pool trick shot specialist that they play 9-ball or 8-ball the wrong way. Now, if someone thinks they will be able to win a 9-ball game more often by focusing on trick shots, then yes, what you are saying is valid, because that person is mislead. However, some people choose to practice trick shots, and not 9-ball, and that is completely ok.

You say at the end of your post, "no one cares if you know the latest/ hardest sleights" or something to that effect, but that is very incorrect. It is ok to be invested in both moves/sleights and performance. Yes, that person will need to be able to differentiate the two and realize the positive and negative effects they have on each other, but there is no reason you cannot approach magic in various ways.

I agree that there are some magicians out there living in a delusion thinking they will become super cool professionals at their current low caliber performance ability while only focusing on either speeding through the performance with sub par technical ability or on using every new innovative sleight known to man. To those people yes, I believe some of what you said is useful and valid, but not in the way you presented it.

However, there are some very educated and well versed magicians that understand the diverse aspects to practicing magic as a hobby. It can be fun for magicians to go out and perform on a weekly basis for strangers while trying to pull in a somewhat consistent salary. However, I know of some very highly respected magicians that would rather leave that dimension of magic behind to hone their own skills and work on improving and or developing new sleights. I find that to be perfectly acceptable and or very respectable.

To be honest, I too would rather be free from the responsibility and expectation of having to perform sponge bunnies or the chop cup on a nightly basis only because it happens to be a crowd favorite. Sure, I would be fulfilling the spectators'/ guests' expectation for entertainment, but at a cost of what? On rare occasion it would be ok, but to be quite honest, most of the time I would rather be devoting my efforts to entertaining myself in the pursuit of improving my various technique and or learning new techniques.
 
You can't advance art if you don't advance yourself.....IE step away from the keyboard.

How nice of you Keokie that you remember myu post :).
I once wrote about this and took a long time to digest it.

There is no right or wrong way to do anything in this art. Whatever works for you works for you, but to advance the art we must learn from the experience of others. Learning from guys who have done this every day for the last 20 years will give you an edge. You will be aware of problems that might occur and how to deal with them. Through that you can really quickly establish a failsafe for problems that might have hit you in the next 10 years.

You can learn from others mistakes and through that make the mistakes mainstream. By that i mean that those big/huge problems become everyday handling which in term brings on new problems to learn from.

We have to listen and teach to advance and the only way to do that is to advance ourselves. The art is not Somebody, its something. And evolution comes to all of us, so as long as we are contributing and working on ourselves everything will move forward.

My point being, stop wasting your time on this and go make a new patter or perform on the streets or anything. Keep yourself on the market advancing yourself.


PS: I use sleights that are up to a few hundred years old. The older a move the better it is due to many people investing their time into it. New moves that come out daily are mostly crap, dig deeper and find hidden secrets. Thats what magic is all about, always trying to find the deepest secrects that make you undefetable.

M.
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
The problem with your point is, it seems that you only think there is one way to enjoy magic as a hobby.

Let me put this another way.

Some of what you are saying is like telling someone who is a pool trick shot specialist that they play 9-ball or 8-ball the wrong way. Now, if someone thinks they will be able to win a 9-ball game more often by focusing on trick shots, then yes, what you are saying is valid, because that person is mislead. However, some people choose to practice trick shots, and not 9-ball, and that is completely ok.

You say at the end of your post, "no one cares if you know the latest/ hardest sleights" or something to that effect, but that is very incorrect. It is ok to be invested in both moves/sleights and performance. Yes, that person will need to be able to differentiate the two and realize the positive and negative effects they have on each other, but there is no reason you cannot approach magic in various ways.

I agree that there are some magicians out there living in a delusion thinking they will become super cool professionals at their current low caliber performance ability while only focusing on either speeding through the performance with sub par technical ability or on using every new innovative sleight known to man. To those people yes, I believe some of what you said is useful and valid, but not in the way you presented it.

However, there are some very educated and well versed magicians that understand the diverse aspects to practicing magic as a hobby. It can be fun for magicians to go out and perform on a weekly basis for strangers while trying to pull in a somewhat consistent salary. However, I know of some very highly respected magicians that would rather leave that dimension of magic behind to hone their own skills and work on improving and or developing new sleights. I find that to be perfectly acceptable and or very respectable.

To be honest, I too would rather be free from the responsibility and expectation of having to perform sponge bunnies or the chop cup on a nightly basis only because it happens to be a crowd favorite. Sure, I would be fulfilling the spectators'/ guests' expectation for entertainment, but at a cost of what? On rare occasion it would be ok, but to be quite honest, most of the time I would rather be devoting my efforts to entertaining myself in the pursuit of improving my various technique and or learning new techniques.


You dont get what i am saying.

I never said that it is wrong to just practice difficult and advanced sleight of hand just for your own ammusment, thats totaly fine. I have deep respect for people who spent days and nights practicing passes and center deals and whatnot.

What i am talking about is the discussions that we always have : "Are magicians well respected artists by the public? How are we going to get more respect to the art of magic?"

See, as i said we keep advancing what i in my post called "inner realitys" of magic, creating new methods, creating new plots, finding and solving problems to problems that does not even exists etc. Sure thats fine, but does it matter to our audience? This is the subject most talked about in magic. When a new method gets created and is about to get released it createst a buzz in the whole magic community and EVERYONE needs to have it. why? Becuase its new and it has never been done before!! cant you see how amazing it is?!

-"Oh yeah, so its new and its never been done before..But whats so good about it?"
-"Umm.. Well...... Umm... Its never been done before! and its new!.. and it fooled ___________ (Insert randon name of famous magician) 5 times in a row!"



When was the last time you heard magicians discussion the entertainment value of the trick on a deeper level then "Oh man this is great, it really fools them and gets a great reaction" ?

I think we sould focus more on what really matters, creating magic with our audience in mind and becoming better performers.

It hurts to say this but if you compare magicians, even some that we would consider the best of the best to performers from other art forms when it comes to performance skill and entertainment in general magicians would rank pretty low.


And again, i dont think its the only way to enjoy magic as a hobby, but thats not what im talking about.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
How nice of you Keokie that you remember myu post :).
I once wrote about this and took a long time to digest it.

Ahh you're the one who wrote that before heh. I just soak up info and spit it back out, prolly should start making it a habit to try and remember who said what.
 
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