An odd but relevant question concerning my novel

Nicholas17

Elite Member
May 28, 2008
94
5
35
Kentucky
I have a question unlike what is usually discussed on magic forums but relevant enough to be asked here. My main two outlets of creativity are magic (cardistry, sleight of hand, mentalism, etc...) and writing. Writing is the part of my life that usually doesn't make an appearance in this world, but there are certain connections. In May, I'll graduate with a Master of Fine Arts degree in creative writing. In other words, I do take it seriously.

Right now, I'm working on a novel, and one aspect of it deals with a fortune teller (this is in the 60s, US) and she is from Eastern Europe. I"m going to go out on a limb and say that I probably know more than the average person on the street about the methods of being a charlatan, NLP, misdirection, cold reading (that's a big one) etc..., and most of you probably do too.

Here's my question, though. I'm looking for a good book on the history of the use of the tarot by charlatans, or of cold reading by charlatans or gypsies (since the character is from Eastern Europe and is, in fact, a gypsy). I'd like this to be relevant to the 60s or earlier, America or Europe. Nothing about contemporary methods, as they wouldn't yet exist in the story.

Also, a big thing to note is: I'm not looking for a how to book as much as a history book with loose descriptions of how these things are done. Essentially, sitting down for coffee with Derren Brown would be ideal, but I'm not going to count on that.

Maybe I'm asking too much, or maybe exactly what I'm looking for is on one of your bookshelves. Who knows, it's why I'm asking, and this community is one I put a lot of value in. Your opinions are important to me! Have at it guys and gals!
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I'm going to go ahead and assume you know that NLP was not a thing in the 60's, nor does it actually do dick in the practice of magic or mentalism.

That said, Richard Webster has penned a large number of books for the shut-eye market about mystical, superstitious, psychic and New Age phenomena. Yes, I bring up his name a lot. If you read his books, you'll know why. I don't recall anything specific to Tarot reading off the top of my head, but he has a few books on astrology, numerology, palmistry, dowsing and more besides. He also includes bibliographies in his works for further research.

No doubt Craig will appear shortly to fill in any gaps. Outside of a small handful of us, very few people here actually know anything about oracles or the history of divination and superstition. I would recommend you actually make some connections in the New Age movement. Don't approach them as a skeptic, just tell the truth: you're a writer doing research for a novel. You'll get a lot of people who are casually interested, a few who are... a little out there, but eventually you'll find someone who is an expert on the subject. Trust me, that's going to be way better than asking magicians, who by and large are phenomenally arrogant jackasses when it comes to this particular topic.

That said, I would also advise you to decide on a specific country that this fortune teller is from, decide whether or not they actually are of the Roma people, and then seek out experts in both Romani culture and the history of the country you have chosen. I have family from Eastern Europe myself and unfortunately Americans tend to take a blind eye to any country between Greece and China. The history of the Carpathians, the Balkans, and many of the territories in the former Ottoman empire have rich, complex histories, especially considering the political upheavals of the 20th century. Even if none of those details make it into the book, it's good to know anyway.
 

Nicholas17

Elite Member
May 28, 2008
94
5
35
Kentucky
I'm going to go ahead and assume you know that NLP was not a thing in the 60's, nor does it actually do dick in the practice of magic or mentalism.

Yes, I just thought I'd include it in that list since it's something people tend to bring up. Basically, the extent of my knowledge on NLP deals with the fact that it has little place in what we do.

That said, I would also advise you to decide on a specific country that this fortune teller is from, decide whether or not they actually are of the Roma people, and then seek out experts in both Romani culture and the history of the country you have chosen.

The character is from Romania, at least for now. I have to stop myself from rambling about the plans I have for the novel, but it does get a little complicated since she grew up in the US. That and the fact that I'm dealing with stereotypes, something I assure you I'm mindful of.

Thank you for your response. Making new age connections is something I see myself doing soon, for the purposes of this project. I realize there is a destination between what we do as magicians and what I'm writing about, but there is certainly a connection and likelihood that someone on these forums would have an interest in both subjects. I didn't want to pass that up as a possible resource.

Thanks again.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
37
Belgrade, Serbia
That said, I would also advise you to decide on a specific country that this fortune teller is from, decide whether or not they actually are of the Roma people, and then seek out experts in both Romani culture and the history of the country you have chosen. I have family from Eastern Europe myself and unfortunately Americans tend to take a blind eye to any country between Greece and China. The history of the Carpathians, the Balkans, and many of the territories in the former Ottoman empire have rich, complex histories, especially considering the political upheavals of the 20th century. Even if none of those details make it into the book, it's good to know anyway.
Agreed. I actually do live in one of those countries, and Romani, as their name says, come from Romania. So you may consider your character to be from there, and search the web for gypsies from Romania.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
The character is from Romania, at least for now. I have to stop myself from rambling about the plans I have for the novel, but it does get a little complicated since she grew up in the US. That and the fact that I'm dealing with stereotypes, something I assure you I'm mindful of.

Considering the 60's was the watershed moment in the Civil Rights movement and racial tensions were running high all over the country, I assumed you already knew you were dealing with subject matter that required a high degree of respect on the part of the writer. A lot of people tend to overlook that Romani people and Eastern Europeans had to deal with their share of racism throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. My Slavic ancestors came over here and got stuck working in coal mines and cleaning out the blast furnaces in steel mills for pennies. The rate of workplace fatalities was about what you would expect.

Thank you for your response. Making new age connections is something I see myself doing soon, for the purposes of this project. I realize there is a destination between what we do as magicians and what I'm writing about, but there is certainly a connection and likelihood that someone on these forums would have an interest in both subjects. I didn't want to pass that up as a possible resource.

Oh, there are certainly those who know their stuff. But most of them don't hang out on this particular board as they're not the target market. Anyone whose initial exposure to cold reading came from Ian Rowland almost invariably turns out to be a cynical prick who couldn't read a mind if it was written on a cereal box.

Agreed. I actually do live in one of those countries, and Romani, as their name says, come from Romania. So you may consider your character to be from there, and search the web for gypsies from Romania.

Well, the Roma people are kind of a national/genetic grab-bag with most of the progenitors originally coming from India. If I recall, the word "gypsy" is actually a corruption of "Egyptian," because racism is older than written language and European whites a thousand years ago figured if they'd seen one swarthy foreigner, they'd seen 'em all. After the fall of the Roman empire, when literacy still belonged only to monks and the landed elite, Egypt was probably the only country with brown people most Europeans could name.
 

Nicholas17

Elite Member
May 28, 2008
94
5
35
Kentucky
Considering the 60's was the watershed moment in the Civil Rights movement and racial tensions were running high all over the country, I assumed you already knew you were dealing with subject matter that required a high degree of respect on the part of the writer. A lot of people tend to overlook that Romani people and Eastern Europeans had to deal with their share of racism throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. My Slavic ancestors came over here and got stuck working in coal mines and cleaning out the blast furnaces in steel mills for pennies. The rate of workplace fatalities was about what you would expect.

Absolutely. It was similar with my Italian ancestors.
 

Nicholas17

Elite Member
May 28, 2008
94
5
35
Kentucky
One thing I'd like to add, before I let this thread die, is if anyone on here knows someone who does fortune telling or tarot professionally, I'd love for you to PM me some contact info. I live in Louisville, KY, and I'm currently trying to hunt someone down, but the more the merrier!
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
One thing I'd like to add, before I let this thread die, is if anyone on here knows someone who does fortune telling or tarot professionally, I'd love for you to PM me some contact info. I live in Louisville, KY, and I'm currently trying to hunt someone down, but the more the merrier!

Craig Browning. Me (Though I'm not a hard core reader). I bet Steerpike has done some. Depending on what you're looking for, I know a few more professionals in the shut eye market I could possibly connect you with, but I don't know if they'd want compensation for their knowledge.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Craig Browning. Me (Though I'm not a hard core reader). I bet Steerpike has done some.

I actually don't use Tarot cards as an oracle. There is a very influential community of religious people in Pittsburgh, so I have to be very selective about what oracles I use in order to avoid getting blacklisted from venues. In fact, I'm trying to move away from anything with an overly New-Age-y vibe as soon as I can.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
I learned it in southern York County so ...

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I know a decent amount and I have done lots of readings. I spent last October doing them, in fact.
 
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