Angel throws a fit.

Feb 18, 2011
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Criss is back in the news, thought this was very interesting and sad..

http://perezhilton.com/2010-09-10-c...nes_out_of_luxor_party_las_vegas#.TudeIWMk6sr

"Criss Angel made an even bigger ass of himself earlier this week after he threw a fit at his own party at the Luxor lounge in Las Vegas.
The douchiest magician of them all was so pissed when he saw fellow magicians Val Valentino and Ron Jones arrive at his Mindfreak premiere party, he instructed his bodyguards "in obscene language," to throw them out. A security guard approached the men and told them, "Mr. Angel is angry and does not want your presence in the hotel."
Valentino said, "He looked at me and yelled, 'Get that piece of (expletive) out of here.' It was bizarre, so unprofessional. I was so disappointed in him."
Jones said that Angel became upset when he saw that Valentino was getting more recognition from party goers and that's why he was kicked out. He added, "I think Angel was intimidated by Val's popularity when people started asking for his autograph. Val was not there to take away the limelight."


* If this is old please do let me know, I just saw this on the front home page on my internet browser. I never heard it till now.
 
Feb 27, 2008
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Grand prairie TX
im mindfreaked that you read perezhilton blogs.

We don't know if much of this is true, its gossip. Im not saying he didnt kick him out. But it might be for more reasons that jealousy.
I honestly can't believe Valentino was stealing the spotlight or getting much autographs but I don't watch celebrity gossip or much TV for that matter.
 
Feb 18, 2011
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I've never heard of "perezhilton blogs", are they known for false storys? Again, I just saw this story on my front page and of course it grabbed my attention. I do hope its a over exaggeration of the true story.
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,354
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Grand prairie TX
I've never heard of "perezhilton blogs", are they known for false storys? Again, I just saw this story on my front page and of course it grabbed my attention. I do hope its a over exaggeration of the true story.

Perez hilton is this snobby socialite who wrote that article. He talks about celebrity gossip and that type of "news" is usually misleading or exaggerating. It might or might not be true. we know criss is a douche.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
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Northampton, MA - USA
Perez hilton is this snobby socialite who wrote that article. He talks about celebrity gossip and that type of "news" is usually misleading or exaggerating. It might or might not be true. we know criss is a douche.

Perez is likewise in the position to destroy one's vocational edge in that he is part of the Who's Who in Miami, New York and San Francisco specifically. He's a very outspoken advocate when it comes to Gay Rights and as such, is very politically active and motivated. Could be that he's heard a bit about Angels homophobia. Nonetheless, Angel is a typical spoilt ego why is his throwing another tantrum a surprise to anyone?
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,961
1,096
Utah
I'm not a fan of Criss Angel but I wouldn't want Val Valentino at my party either. After the masked magician fiasco I wouldn't want to associate with him at all. He has made a mockery of what we call art. As much as I dislike Criss Angel Val Valentino has proven himself to be a bigger loser. And Valentino did it on a network station.
 
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Sep 1, 2007
557
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Porthcawl, Wales.
Criss is back in the news, thought this was very interesting and sad..

http://perezhilton.com/2010-09-10-c...nes_out_of_luxor_party_las_vegas#.TudeIWMk6sr

"Criss Angel made an even bigger ass of himself earlier this week after he threw a fit at his own party at the Luxor lounge in Las Vegas.
The douchiest magician of them all was so pissed when he saw fellow magicians Val Valentino and Ron Jones arrive at his Mindfreak premiere party, he instructed his bodyguards "in obscene language," to throw them out. A security guard approached the men and told them, "Mr. Angel is angry and does not want your presence in the hotel."
Valentino said, "He looked at me and yelled, 'Get that piece of (expletive) out of here.' It was bizarre, so unprofessional. I was so disappointed in him."
Jones said that Angel became upset when he saw that Valentino was getting more recognition from party goers and that's why he was kicked out. He added, "I think Angel was intimidated by Val's popularity when people started asking for his autograph. Val was not there to take away the limelight."


* If this is old please do let me know, I just saw this on the front home page on my internet browser. I never heard it till now.
Dalton buddy! The Perez Hilton Blog is like my shameful guilty pleasure! Haha, I totally check it all the time. Have no shame man :D

Lloyd
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,961
1,096
Utah
Val did bring a bunch of new magicians into the art that may not have otherwise had an exposure. It's a double edged sword.

Yeah, Hitler built the Autobon but that doesn't mean I'll invite him to my next meeting of world leaders. Maybe that's a bit of an extreme example. People like David Copperfield, Doug Henning and Derren Brown have brought more into magic without exploiting it. Even Criss Angel has brought more into magic in a legitimate way than Valentino. It may be a double edged sword but it's a pretty dull sword in the first place.

The press leaves out the fact that Valentino was the masked magician. I dislike Criss Angel but they make it out to be some sort of popularity battle. I could see it being more than that. The headline would read a bit different if it said "Criss Angel kicks the Masked Magician out of his party".
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
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Northampton, MA - USA
I'm not a fan of Criss Angel but I wouldn't want Val Valentino at my party either. After the masked magician fiasco I wouldn't want to associate with him at all. He has made a mockery of what we call art. As much as I dislike Criss Angel Val Valentino has proven himself to be a bigger loser. And Valentino did it on a network station.

Firstly, Val was a major fixture in Vegas and Laughlin long before anyone every heard of Angel or Blaine.

I saw Val climb the ranks and work his butt off for close to 20 years battling the political B.S. of the Magic Industry (specifically) all the way. This is a guy that did two midday shows in Vegas five days a week as well as a full even stage show in Lauglin by night, where he was a recognize "headliner" and yet, the trade mags and establishments kept ignoring him and to a huge extent, suppress him.

Ask yourself just how much patience you would have after dealing with such situations for close to half your life. I doubt you'd really accept it and go about doing what you've always done. . . especially if you were the position to do more.

Secondly, take a look at what Val said was his reason for tipping so much and compare that to how the magic world has taken a huge leap away from our yesteryear way of developing and approaching magic. I'm rather confident you'd start seeing how much good his short-lived Tv time did for the art vs. bad. Especially if you look at what Val really tipped in those shows. . . very little of what he showed was valid or, as in the majority of instances, were rarely employed methods. Too, a good deal of the things tipped were considerably out of date and no longer in common use within large or small arenas and/or were the elementary aspect of a method such as working with a Swami or the Center Tear.

Let's consider the fact too, that Penn & Teller got their start EXPOSING all kinds of legit magic secrets but did so in a slightly different manner than VAL was doing. We should probably look at the fact that there is NOT ONE SINGLE MAJOR NAME IN MAGIC that is not guilty of exposing some of the same stuff Val gets' stigmatized over by way of comic books, cereal boxes, junk food novelties and of course the one standard that was common with kiddie show performers well into the mid-80's -- small booklets like 101 Magic Tricks You Can Do.

Want More?

When it comes to exposing our secrets the worse culprits are magician's themselves in that the majority do little more than learn the method and instantly run our and show it off. They get it in the morning and have it in their act that night; the end result being fools that tip how a Dove Pan works or produce a dead bird from the silk and not know how to compensate on things, etc. Some such performers are actual regulars on the Vegas strip.

Angel, due to his personality and general assholiness is far more a low life than Valentino will ever be. I don't say that because Val has been a friend for many years but because Val has always been honest and not stepped on his friends and those that helped him. Angel has more or less pushed everyone that saw something in him originally, away. Few of them have anything good to say about the prick; they're just professional enough to not say it in a public forum.

As the Masked Magician however, Valentino still works very regularly with an pseudo-expose styled show throughout much of South & Central America and even a few cruise ship gigs that I'm aware of. He's likewise producing programs that are straight magic, at least one project I'm aware of will be for Television. So I wouldn't discount him if I were you.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,961
1,096
Utah
As the Masked Magician however, Valentino still works very regularly with an pseudo-expose styled show throughout much of South & Central America and even a few cruise ship gigs that I'm aware of. He's likewise producing programs that are straight magic, at least one project I'm aware of will be for Television. So I wouldn't discount him if I were you.

So Val Valentino has exposed large illusions in the past and continues today. Criss Angel kicks him out of his party and there's a problem with that?

What about the tank illusion, looks like method for a UFO apearance. What about the Dump truck? Looks alot like a certain train that was vanished by another magician. How about the woman to a tiger that was exposed. If I'm not mistaken Seigfried and Roy were using that exact effect in their show at the time the masked magician aired. The masked magician exposed the linking rings but then again that is a rarely used method. The mismade lady, doll house illusion, broom suspension, walking through a wall, zigzag lady, buried alive, water torture tank, cremation and the fork lift levitation. These aren't effects or methods used by actual working professionals. These are dispensable old methods right?

If I worked in Vegas I'd make sure to invite that guy to any party I threw. I might even have him show everyone on primetime, network television to expose my stuff on his next show. Although I'd prefer he did it without asking my permission or crediting me.

When compared to Penn and Teller's exposure. When a card is chosen magicians have 52 outs that's how they find your card. You just have to hide all the outs in a regular scene like a beach and when they name their card you run over to reveal their card. Or that classic effect where a semitruck drives over the chest of your assistant. I can't believe they exposed that one. Or their version of mismade where the assistant runs arround like crazy in an attempt to shove their limbs in all the correct spots. (okay in the instance of the cups and balls I can agree with you Mr. Browning. I don't love that they expose classic moves. The speed they do it at compensates a bit though)

The truth is the Masked Magician royally broke the first rule in magic, on network television. He exposed real effects used by professionals and amateurs alike. Penn and Teller reveal, for the most part, their own effects. As far as I know their methods are hardly used by anyone besides themselves.

I dislike Criss Angel, he comes of as very arrogant. I can't stand watching him. That said it's easily conceivable that Angel did not want to associate himself with someone who has exposed other magicians like himself to the general public. I don't know if Val is as innocent as the press makes him out to be.

I really don't want to offend anyone here, I know I took a bit of a sarcastic tone and I hope that doesn't bother anyone too much. I just don't know if this is totally Angels fault, it's possible Val was in the wrong.
 

Josh Burch

Elite Member
Aug 11, 2011
2,961
1,096
Utah
I guess I'd say there may have been 2 sides to this coin as well. The press never seems to cover both sides. There may be more to the story than we can see. I can see another reason besides what they reported for him to kick Val out.
 
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Sep 1, 2007
3,818
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Yeah, Hitler built the Autobon but that doesn't mean I'll invite him to my next meeting of world leaders.

1. Hitler's dead, so the joke doesn't scan.
2. You've invoked Godwin's Law before the first page of the thread even finished, so now I want to slap you.
3. This kind of histrionic nonsense is one reason among many why I don't like magicians anymore. Thank you for re-enforcing my negative perceptions.

Maybe that's a bit of an extreme example.

Nooo. :rolleyes:

As the Masked Magician however, Valentino still works very regularly with an pseudo-expose styled show

Craig, I do agree with what you're saying, but this here is the only part most people will remember. I can hear the sound of a hundred heart attacks right now.

So Val Valentino has exposed large illusions in the past and continues today.

Case in point.

(okay in the instance of the cups and balls I can agree with you Mr. Browning. I don't love that they expose classic moves. The speed they do it at compensates a bit though)

I do hope you're aware that Dai Vernon was one of the first to deliberately expose false transfers in his cups and balls routine.

The truth is the Masked Magician royally broke the first rule in magic, on network television. He exposed real effects used by professionals and amateurs alike.

And the fact that you guys repeatedly had a coronary over it only served to draw even more attention to it.

I don't know if Val is as innocent as the press makes him out to be.

If you don't mind me stealing a joke from Jon Stewart, it seems that you are taking the stance of, "guilty until proven flammable."

I really don't want to offend anyone here, I know I took a bit of a sarcastic tone and I hope that doesn't bother anyone too much. I just don't know if this is totally Angels fault, it's possible Val was in the wrong.

If you thought that heavy-handed, poorly written sarcasm wasn't a good way to communicate, then why did you even bother committing it to paper in the first place?
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
13
61
Northampton, MA - USA
What about the tank illusion, looks like method for a UFO apearance. What about the Dump truck? Looks alot like a certain train that was vanished by another magician. How about the woman to a tiger that was exposed. If I'm not mistaken Seigfried and Roy were using that exact effect in their show at the time the masked magician aired. The masked magician exposed the linking rings but then again that is a rarely used method. The mismade lady, doll house illusion, broom suspension, walking through a wall, zigzag lady, buried alive, water torture tank, cremation and the fork lift levitation. These aren't effects or methods used by actual working professionals. These are dispensable old methods right?

Ok… which version of these effects did he tip?

Val exposed the very same Elephant Vanish I used to feature in my show but guess what. . . it was an out-dated method no longer used because of impracticality. It was featured in the Melbourne Christopher show and then a handful of others used that method or even the original prop (which is the one I used). Yet, there are a minimum of a dozen other vanishing elephant pieces out there that are superior just as there are seriously improved versions to each of the pieces you list. Val DID NOT tip the newer methods or design factors.

The Fork Lift Levitation is a JOKE… Dean Hankey knew about the piece ahead of time, deliberately had a full sized foam core flat of a forklift made for his show in Reno. When it was time for the hoop pass on the girl the curtain opened to show the image, Dean paused and then knocked it over as he proceeded to grab the hoop. NO ONE but maybe a desperate amateur would consider that method and on top of that, the one similar technique out there has a heck of a lot more to it. . . I featured the thing in my shows for ages.

BTW… Penn & Teller exposed the Linking Rings long before Val ever considered this project and comedian Andy Kaufman exposed them on Saturday Night Live well before that. . . Oh! Banachek is still trying to find that nifty gimmick the Masked Mage used for explaining PK Time, you may want to inform him that’s he’s been doing it wrong all these years. . .

Why Exposure Only Matters to Wannabes. . .
Because they are too damned lazy to push themselves when it comes to education and development of alternatives; exactly what Val was pointing out on just one small level – we won’t make ourselves take those few added baby steps in order to be MORE. You hear me ***** about this all the time alongside dozens of other old timers (as in Veteran show people).

During a show in New York about two or so years back Penn Jillette openly exposed the Pass I think it was just before going to intermission. During intermission Jamie Swiss was doing card magic for everyone in the room and blowing their minds. . . EVERY SINGLE TRICK USED THE PREVIOUSLY EXPOSED METHOD AND NO ONE CAUGHT ON!

When the method is used properly and when the performer & their team do their job right, such things vanish from the mind of the audience.
The Sawing in Half for an example is one of my favorite big illusions, I’ve owned several makes and versions of it including a couple of Buzz Saws and even got to work with the original Thurston cabinet a few times (and I do mean the original #1 Thurston Sawing Cabinet, not the #2 unit in the Copperfield collection). This effect has been exposed to death in the past 90ish years it's been around.

A Thurston styled sawing is HUGE (nearly 3 times the thickness of a Thin Model Sawing); obviously big enough to conceal that rolled up young lady in the top box and yet, I’ve watched Kirkham get a standing ovation from it nearly every performance. Then again, when people see a Thin Model they instantly discount the thought that it works as it does. (Oh! I didn't just tip how it works, there is a very deep and to my knowledge, unpublished part behind the working of this effect)

My original Mismade Lady cabinet didn’t work anything close to how Chuck Jones had designed the thing and yet I gave the same basic effect to the public. I was none the wiser until I saw an Owen made cabinet at a theme park one day.

I can continue going down this list and even toss in a ton of Mentalism bits that have been known for close to 100 years by the general public, such as Codes, transmitters, etc. Then we have things like the Thumb Tip that most every seasoned bar tender knows of and uses along with folding coins, beer cap in bottle and so forth.

If you FEAR the exposure it’s because you don’t know how to work the gimmick or PRESENT the effects in ways that detour the public mind… and, as I’ve said, chances are strong you’re just too bloody lazy to THINK and figure ways around your issue.

. . . and remember, there is not a single major player in the history of magic that isn’t guilty of deliberate exposure​
.

Back in the early 80’s the L.A. Times did a feature article on Johnson Products. . . yeah, the guys that make our gimmick coins. Sat to one side is a 3 x 4 inch full color pic of a Cigarette Thru Quarter gimmick in EXPOSED position. . . an effect that happened to be signature piece of mine.

Thanks to Tom Ogden and some quick thinking, I managed to create a solid 6+ minute routine with the Cig thru Qtr. That included 4 completely different gaffs and ended with my pulling the smoke out of the coin and cleanly dropping the coin to the table as I picked up the paper, showed the photo and asked, “How on earth could anyone do what you just saw with something as clunky and ugly as this?

BTW. . . the show in question was at the Magic Castle in the Close-Up Room​

I turned the tables on the expose’ and that’s exactly what Val was challenging the magic community to do. Instead, a good 95% of that community condemn him and refuse to invest a single brain cell when it comes to research and actually learning this craft.

A Mature Audience can care less and a Mature performer would know not to sweat it, it’s that simple.

And to Clarify. . . I'm not defending exposure, just presenting the facts based on what Val had said since day one on this project and likewise echoing what some of the biggest names of the industry have said, after digesting things. In short, stop crying over spilt milk; clean it up and start with a new glass full rather than focusing on the one that's half-empty.
 
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