So I was thinking about it the other day, and the only ways I really know to deal with hecklers are to turn the crowd against them, or fake them out with a false call, floor them, and move on. Has anyone ever had an experience of winning a heckler over, and actually getting them engaged in the story, or is it just impossible?
Any way to turn a heckler to your side?
- Thread starter eternalredking
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The best way to handle hecklers is to design your character and presentations to be engaging. Connect with the audience. Smile. Don't create an "I know the secret and you don't" challenge. Make your magic about more than what you are doing with your props. Be entertaining. As Tamariz says, show your audience love. Be on their side. Focus more about them enjoying seeing amazing things than them thinking you are amazing. Did I mention to smile?
@Lord Magic, I do not think that Chris Ramsay's approach is the best approach. It is apparent from his videos that his approach to magic is that the secret methods he knows give him an advantage over the spectators. He appears to view magic as Magician v. Audience... fool them or be figured out. That approach actually creates hecklers.
Think about how many hecklers there would be if the audience was on your side, if they wanted to see you succeed in providing them with astonishment? None.
Think about how many hecklers there would be if the audience was on your side, if they wanted to see you succeed in providing them with astonishment? None.
Nope mate...Ramsay has never shown in his approach that it is Magician vs audience.
Infact he says THE EXACT opposite.
See a few of his videos about magic to get the idea.
And as far as his approach goes...well, he said the exact thing you tried to point out,right?
He said it should never be magician vs audience because that is what creates hecklers.
Both of you are implying the same differently
His advice is RUBBISH.
1. He says to let a spectator shuffle the deck. Wrong. Surrendering control to the spectators just encourages them to keep interrupting you. The best way to avoid hecklers is to project that you are in control of your performance.
2. His first suggestion is to force a card that insults the spectator. If that isn't Magician vs. Audience I don't know what it. If the audience isn't on your side, doing that will just make you look like the word he suggests to write on the card.
3. The presentation for his second presentation includes the phrase, "I really don't think you are going to catch me on this one." and to stop the magician if they do anything fishy. How is this not setting up a challenge and feeding the idea that the magician's job is to make a fool of the spectator if the spectator can't figure it out.
4. The hand to face gag is beyond obnoxious. I would walk out of a performance if I saw a magician do that to a spectator. Again, magician wins, spectator loses.
5. The next trick for Tip #4 is a version of The Betting Card Trick from Scarne on Card Tricks, which actually has a better method because the spectator doesn't touch the deck. However, when I do this I do it with a playful presentation, not the "I'm can really fool you SUCKER" presentation and without the post effect hand gestures.
6. The next one is really magician vs. spectator. Essentially, the magician is showing that he can be a bigger prick to the spectator than the spectator is being to him.
No, to be precise, he said not to perform as if it is a puzzle. Those points are correct. However, I think all of the methods he suggests really will not be effective. Most people unintentionally make it Magician vs. Audience because they perform with an air that I can do things that you can't figure out. Every one of his suggested tricks were just that.
From his video, he seems to get a lot of hecklers. I've never had a heckler like that because my magic is about more than just the trick. I get the audience on my side.
Well, each one for their own.
But from Ramsay's performance style (since am a subscriber I keep in tabs with him tho I don't claim to know him) it does not look like he gets a lot of hecklers.
Check out his videos for better reference.
And ways to turn hecklers back etc work according to a magician's character, right?
I mean maybe Ramsay manages to do all the things you object to without appearing as the villain?
I respect your opinions and his views do seem imoractical sometimes.
But as I said, maybe they work for his character.
Also, he teaches magic a lot and so his mentality would be different than those who just perform, right?
I think it is not fair to call his advice 'rubbish'
Just my thoughts
Ramsay's a good guy, but his advice is based on being the alpha-bro. It works out alright if your charming, but you're basically creating divides constantly - the people who think you're funny, and the people who think you're a jerk.
Also, Ramsay is not a professional performer. He's a professional YouTube creator. You're not going to see performances where he bombs or struggles, most likely, unless he does a special one. His videos are meant to show him in the best light possible, and encourage the most engagement possible - you (the viewer of the videos, and in turn, the ads on those videos) are his product.
The way Ramsay deals with troublesome audience members creates troublesome audience members. It's all social value battles. He's charming, so he can pull off some of the more aggressive tactics, but in reality most people who try to do what he's doing are going to come across as nasty jerks.
So yeah, I'd say the way his advice was delivered does make it rubbish. It doesn't explain any of the important parts of what makes his performance style work, probably because he does this stuff naturally and has never had to break it down and think about it.
Also, Ramsay is not a professional performer. He's a professional YouTube creator. You're not going to see performances where he bombs or struggles, most likely, unless he does a special one. His videos are meant to show him in the best light possible, and encourage the most engagement possible - you (the viewer of the videos, and in turn, the ads on those videos) are his product.
The way Ramsay deals with troublesome audience members creates troublesome audience members. It's all social value battles. He's charming, so he can pull off some of the more aggressive tactics, but in reality most people who try to do what he's doing are going to come across as nasty jerks.
So yeah, I'd say the way his advice was delivered does make it rubbish. It doesn't explain any of the important parts of what makes his performance style work, probably because he does this stuff naturally and has never had to break it down and think about it.
I left the thread alone for a bit, and wow, this got heated. I was looking for like a memorable anecdote or something, but you guys got all deep and stuff. Cool.
I guess the question is what advice should we give people? Should we give advice that we haven't tested (@Lord Magic I've seen your posts and you seem like a good kid who wouldn't do ANYTHING that Ramsay suggests in that video)? Should we give advice that won't work for the vast majority of people? Or should we give advice that we've tried and that works REGARDLESS of your character?
I'll stick with my original advice. Make the magic about more than narrating what you are doing with the props, have an entertaining character, make it about providing enjoyment fir the audience than having them be impressed by your knowledge/skills and smile
Listen to these guys that have been doing it for years, professionally.....they may not say what you want to hear, but they will tell you what years of performing has taught them. And that is advice you cannot buy....!
Cool thoughts.
Well, I rarely get hecklers (not because of the lack of performing, I assure you!) and when I did once, I just forced all the cards that needed to be chosen.
And I do make it seem like the spectator is doing magic, by doing an effect that makes it seem he is the magician. Because more often than not, heckling is a plea for attention and reply to the insecurity someone may feel because of a magician.
As for Chris Ramsay, I really like that guy. He has tutorials, but not too many. He has vlogs, but not too many. Magic compliations, but not too many. His sleight-of-hand is amazing. And he is cool. So I think that you guys, who have actually gone out there AND PERFORMED PROFESSIONALLY will probably know better than me in this field.
Ramsay says he gets heckling less frequently too, so I think his methods work for him. And I felt the need to just suggest them, but if they are not suitable, it's fine with me. Because honestly, you guys are the experienced ones...
But as I said, these methods work differently for different people, right?
So arguing on this point seems pointless
I might as well toss in my opinion. I've had success with both approaches. Usually I try to be as polite and personable as possible, but if all else fails then I resort to doing a bar bet or something to that effect. Most of the time people will quit heckling after a couple quips or gentle remarks. If they haven't stopped at this point then I do a bar bet or something like what Ramsay suggest
Just gonna add my 50 cents here.
Call me a hot headed young blood, but i do prefer Ramsey's approach(forced card with asshole written on it specifically) especially if the heckler is nothing but a complete d!ck. It's also very good 'trick' to do to your friends...just saying. However of course, it's better to win them over. Personally, especially since i still consider myself a beginner, every time i fail and that could mean many things like making someone a believer or impressing someone unenthusiastic; i take it as a challenge to blow the spectator away. Call it magician vs audience, but one way or another i am there to bewilder and entertain people and damn it that's what i'll do, even if i have to rub a few feathers wrong.
Call me a hot headed young blood, but i do prefer Ramsey's approach(forced card with asshole written on it specifically) especially if the heckler is nothing but a complete d!ck. It's also very good 'trick' to do to your friends...just saying. However of course, it's better to win them over. Personally, especially since i still consider myself a beginner, every time i fail and that could mean many things like making someone a believer or impressing someone unenthusiastic; i take it as a challenge to blow the spectator away. Call it magician vs audience, but one way or another i am there to bewilder and entertain people and damn it that's what i'll do, even if i have to rub a few feathers wrong.
That's unfortunate. As you get past the beginner phase, you will realize that making magic entertaining is more than doing a trick your audience can't figure out.
The only thing is, calling someone a nasty name - or writing it on a card you force on him - could be detrimental to your health. You can never be sure who you are dealing with when performing for strangers, and I definitely want to be sure to stay in one piece. You can't win by trying to meet a heckler on his/her own ground. Nasty or distasteful confrontations turn off the audience and generally do not turn out well for the performer.
I get the impression that most our members on here do close-up magic, as opposed to a stage or stand-up show. Close-up, walk around magic is my main thing, although I do some shows, which are comedy magic. In the shows (and I guess in the close-up performances as well), people are usually too busy laughing or listening to a good story to heckle or pay attention to anyone who might do so. I usually make myself the brunt of my humor as opposed to anyone in the audience. Psychologically, this gets people on your side - which is certainly what I want.
I guess I am fortunate that I haven't gotten many hecklers in the many years I have been doing this, but when it happens, I laugh it off and don't confront that individual. Then I just end the set immediately after whatever trick is in progress at the time the person is being obnoxious - as if that's what I was planning to do all along, thank the people and move on...
In general, I think the best advice I can give to up and coming performers (well, any performer, actually) is to be gracious, kind, classy and respectful of the people for whom you are performing. Then hecklers will be few and far between.
I get the impression that most our members on here do close-up magic, as opposed to a stage or stand-up show. Close-up, walk around magic is my main thing, although I do some shows, which are comedy magic. In the shows (and I guess in the close-up performances as well), people are usually too busy laughing or listening to a good story to heckle or pay attention to anyone who might do so. I usually make myself the brunt of my humor as opposed to anyone in the audience. Psychologically, this gets people on your side - which is certainly what I want.
I guess I am fortunate that I haven't gotten many hecklers in the many years I have been doing this, but when it happens, I laugh it off and don't confront that individual. Then I just end the set immediately after whatever trick is in progress at the time the person is being obnoxious - as if that's what I was planning to do all along, thank the people and move on...
In general, I think the best advice I can give to up and coming performers (well, any performer, actually) is to be gracious, kind, classy and respectful of the people for whom you are performing. Then hecklers will be few and far between.
You know, I think what we're seeing here is two diverging schools of thought in magic. It's kind of like the Jedi fighting the Sith. Cool to watch, but very bloody. Again though, the thread was more about memorable anecdotes or stories, but way to go. You guys stood your ground. I'm proud of you!