Are all dover magic books useful for beginners?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Unownmagician1990, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Hello everyone, i am a beginner at magic and i probably will be until i can one day fool someone that has done this for years i have been taking magic very seriously as of the beginning of this year ,so i started buying a lot of playing cards and also books, i have used the forums here to help me decide what to get, so far i have the Royal road to card magic, expert card technique, self working card tricks and self working close up card tricks. I have since found more books and there seems to be a lot with dover publications and i was wondering how many more of them would be useful to get?

    I have until my brothers wedding next month to learn what I can and do a few tricks, anything that you can advise me on i will take on board after the wedding i will be focusing on making something of it and improving myself.
     
  2. I think it's just chance that has led to dover publishing so many magic books. Whatmore...dover has mostly related the classics of magic.
    There are many magic books out there not published by dover.
    I did not understand...do you want to know which books will give you best advice and tricks for performing at the wedding?

    Or are you just asking in general?
     
  3. All I know about Dover is the print expert at the card table. You will have A TON of people suggest it. I’m sorry I’ll just be frank.




    DO NOT GET IT.

    It is NOT a beginner book at all.



    Yes I know people will disagree but please trust me.
     
  4. Most of the books are beginner friendly but several are more appropriate for the intermediate magician. @010rusty mentioned ECT, I would add Card Control and probably Card Manipulations to that list.

    If one wants to stick to the Dover Library--from a card man's perspective--then I would go with Royal Road -> Expert Card Technique -> Expert at the Card Table + Card Control. Of course you can supplement your repetoire with the Karl Fulves self working card books at the beginning and the Charles Jordan book after Royal Road. Scarne on Card Tricks also has a wealth of beginner friendly stuff.
     
    RealityOne, Mr_ARPY and 010rusty like this.
  5. Quick follow up, just wanted to point out that the new hardback version of Royal Road (Card Tricks: The Royal Road to Card Magic) is almost 4 bucks cheaper than the paperback for some bizarre reason.
     
  6. I'm not very good at explaining what i mean so i apologies for that.

    I'm asking as a general question, what i do at the wedding isn't important.

    I have autism and he has said he would like me to do some card tricks for his wedding but has said he won't make an announcement saying that I'm doing it so i don't panic about it ,instead he's asked me to learn some tricks and I'll do some if im asked.

    For me to walk up to a group of people isn't an easy thing especially if i don't know them, but I'm using magic as a way for me to try and combat that and get used to approaching people or talking to strangers in general.

    I am 27 so I'm starting magic late in life but it's also helping me with my autism and being more social with people and whilst I am learning tricks i am starting slowly and trying them on people I know but I'm creating my own stories to go with a trick as i don't want to use anyone else's as my own.
     
    010rusty, Mr_ARPY and cgstorz like this.
  7. Just saying...Karl Fulves books require a lot of modifications. I think it'd be better if you studied some other works before you did his.

    Get Modern Coin Magic by J.B. BoboBobo
    Street Magic by Paul Zenon
    Complete Idiot's Guide to Street Magic by Tom Ogden (title seems a bit offensive, but believe me, the book really is great...)
    Tricks of The Mind by Derren Brown
    Nothing is Impossible by Dynamo
    Mark Wilson's Complete Course by Mark Wilson

    I must tell you tho, Tricks of the Mind and Nothing Is Impossible don't have ''secrets'' as in, they don't teach tricks, but they teach magic. At least, the one by Derren Brown does.

    I think if you read the Royal Road to Card Magic pretty well, you should have some pretty great tricks up your sleeve. Have you started reading it closely yet? Do so...it's really cool!

    If you wanna develop some great magic sense, I think you should watch magic performances and magicians. Just like reading good writers is essential to write good essays, seeing good magicians will improve your performance style. Don't copy them, but see what are they doing right. Get more involved with the magic community and you'll be on your way mate! :) :) :)

    Have a good time!
     
    Mr_ARPY likes this.
  8. Good for you, @Unownmagician1990 . If this is going to be your first time performing for moderate to large groups I would suggest avoiding anything too angle sensitive or excessively move-e. I would go with "mechanically" simple tricks that you build good presentations around. Tricks don't need to be knucklebusters to go over well for lay-people. Look at M. Close's "Oo-AA Bird".

    If you like I can PM you something that I think would work well for you both as a trick and as physical contact therapy.
     
    Unownmagician1990 likes this.
  9. @Unownmagician1990 it's great to have you here as a member of the Forum. You are right, magic, especially close up, strolling magic is a great way for us to overcome social inhibition and become more comfortable interacting with people. My advice has nothing to do with what books to get, but I offer just two little tips that I have learned from experience.

    1. Don' t try to learn too many ticks too soon. Just take a couple or maybe 3, that you really like and master them thoroughly. Many magicians (and not just beginners) fall into the trap of trying to learn too many tricks and then unfortunately they know a lot of tricks that they can do sloppily. Better to know a few that you have thoroughly mastered, getting all the moves, script and lines really down, then gradually progress from there. A few tricks done smoothly will impress people far more than knowing many on a mediocre level.

    2. Just think of what you will do at the wedding as an opportunity to have fun, entertain people and make them feel good. Enjoy yourself, and they will enjoy themselves. This is what I tell myself on the way to every booking.
     
    Antonio Diavolo likes this.
  10. You are the 2nd person that I have seen with this opinion. I have been practicing gambling sleights for quite a few years now, and even though I know most of what is taught in there, it is still, a bit hard for me to learn from that.
    As you said, it is neither for a beginner nor for an intermediate who wants to dive into gambling sleights.
     
    Al e Cat Dabra likes this.
  11. @cgstorz if you can suggest anything that would help me out i would be appreciative if anything that you can offer, even if it isn't a trick I will take it on board.

    If anyone has any advice whether it's about books, dvds, specific tricks or anything to do with magic that you think would help me out then please let me know as anything i can learn before or after the wedding will help me out greatly.

    The wedding is giving me something to aim for and after the wedding i will continue to learn but it will be doing so at a slower pace than what I'm doing now.

    @Lord Magic i do actually have the complete course in magic already i have read a bit of it but I'm not doing much more than card tricks at the moment because I feel a little more comfortable with cards but i will definitely be taking a look at some of the other bits soon.

    Also i have found a book called encyclopedia of card tricks, I'm thinking about buying it but wanted everyone's opinions on it if you have read it before.
     
    Lord Magic likes this.
  12. The Dover books you have are enough for now, learn what is in them before you worry about getting more.

    The Dover books are reprints of old books and are therefore less expensive than the newer more modern titles. What you have is a good start and contains a large amount of good information. When you get what you can from them let us know where you are and we'll suggest what modern texts you should consider. Instead of getting another 3 old Dover books you should consider 1 modern book. Although again, unless you can afford to start over with modern texts just learn what is in the ones you already have. You will not learn more by buying more books when you have not finished working on what you already own.

    Learn Invisible Transit from Expert Card Technique, it is easy for the spectators to follow the plot. Clarity is important when performing at events like weddings.
     
    cgstorz likes this.
  13. This has less to do with the difficulty of the material, I think, and more to do with the fact that it is not a particularly well written book. It may be the "Card Worker's Bible" but it is more Leviticus than it is Gospel of John.
     
    Mr_ARPY and 010rusty like this.
  14. @Lord Magic i did buy a couple of those books you mentioned to read, even if i don't use anything before the wedding i do plan on carrying on with magic so they will help me out

    I do read self working books and beginner books because I have to learn the basics to give me a chance at learning the more difficult things within card tricks, but I'm also the kind of person that in my head the way it works is, if i try the harder things and i can at least do something from it, then doing the easier moves / slights won't be so hard for me to learn.

    But i do have a question i forgot to mention in the original post when I wrote it.

    Obviously this will be the first time i do anything like this for more than 3 people so I'm not that good at crowd management or hecklers so to say, my question is what do you all do / suggest as to how to deal with it?

    I am fully expecting at least 2 people that i know personally to try and say "i know how that's done" or "i saw that move" i have decided that if that happens that i will just hand the cards to that person and ask them to do the trick. I know for a fact that they have never done anything or learnt anything to do with magic so i know it will either stump them, make them shut up or both, but would that be a reasonable response or action?

    Any advice with this would be appreciated as always
     
  15. If they are people you know well enough to speak to, and you can manage it, talk to them before the wedding. Politely ask them not to jack with you while you are performing.

    For general hecklers, just don't let them get to you and keep on keeping on. Since it is your brother's wedding I would hope he wouldn't let it get too out of hand. Also, since it is a wedding reception, get your act in before the blood alcohol average of the audience is too high.
     
    Unownmagician1990 likes this.
  16. @cgstorz i know he wouldn't let it go to far but neither will i, as much as i have autism i have learnt to deal with people in a certain way i.e whilst they are drinking / rowdy. I will know a few people which is a given but it'll only be a couple people that are the type to be like that.

    I think i will stick to what was mentioned above by @Al e Cat Dabra and stick to mastering a few tricks i will continue to learn others because i can perform the tricks that i feel most comfortable with but so not to over do myself or bore people to quickly.

    I will do a couple tricks before the drinking gets to heavy and leave people to ponder what they have just seen which will hopefully keep them happy and they will ask for something else.

    If i just stand and do all the tricks i know at the get go I'll have nothing to do later on so if i just stick to a few at the beginning i can then pace myself and that will also give me time to set up a trick or gimmick (obviously if i do that it will be away from everyone else and in an area i won't be surprised)

    As always thank you everyone who has given me advice so far, i am reading everything you are all saying and taking it on board.
     
    Al e Cat Dabra likes this.
  17. Probably the main thing is that it was written more than 100 years ago and probably it was the first written explanation for most of the stuff that was published in it. So I guess we can all agree that it was more than good for that time, but right now there are better ways to learn the same thing
     
    cgstorz likes this.
  18. Mate...just don't let them bother you. I tell you, most of the times when there is any heckler, the rest of the audience is on the magician's side. After all, they want to have fun and this heckler-guy tries to act smart. So...you already have their mental support. How to retain it? Don't do anything to offend them.

    Suppose a spectator is trying to spoil your show by shouting out "There are two cards!''...
    Solution:-Complement them. And here's the secret...IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY ARE CORRECT! Tell them,"You seem to have good eyes and brains" or something like that and continue with a different trick where THEY are the star. You know, make it look like they did the magic. The rest of the audience will label you as a mature performer.

    If they say "I know how it is done!"

    I usually say, "Oh well, I do it in a slightly different way...my style, you know? Here, why don't you help me with it!"

    And again, bring them in.

    Whenever anyone causes any trouble, I usually just make them the star of the show. Of course, the rest of the audience knows YOU did the magic and not that attention-seeker. Be careful though, this solution won't work everytime. Just...just don't perform for someone who makes you feel like trash just because you are doing something cooler than sitting around and commenting on others. Get out from their vicinity...give yourself the respect you deserve as a performer :) :) :)

    From your words, it seems you are particularly uncomfortable around two specific people. Forgive me if I am wrong though. Anyways, if that's correct, just avoid them man! They don't deserve your magic if they wanna heckle you!

    Mate, be very very careful that you are performing magic, not tricks and puzzles. Make sure your audience feels amazed and happy, not fooled. Because if you try to fool, people will get defensive and work against you. Half of the hecklers are created that way.

    Just be humble and as great as you are and you'll be fine, trust moi!
     
  19. Thank you, I'm not so much uncomfortable around them, it's just that I know what they're like one of them seems to think he understands how magic is done and to be honest he has absolutely no idea, from taking a serious interest myself this year i have realised that what i thought about magic is completely wrong and the moves/slights required to perform such tricks is a lot harder for someone starting in magic as i have found out. I have spoken to one of them and asked them not to be how he usually is and just let me perform the tricks for everyone, he's agreed to that which I'm happy with i am yet to speak to the other person but i can deal with him at the wedding.

    But @Lord Magic i brought a couple of the books you mentioned in an earlier reply, mainly modern coin magic and street magic, is there anything within the modern coin magic book that you would recommend to me considering that i have never handled money in the way of a trick?

    As always thank you for your advice as to everyone else who has offered advice or an opinion.
     
  20. Meh, Vernon and Marlo got the book at a young age and they revolutionized card magic. It was one of the first books I ever bought and I can't say I'm worse off for having it.

    If you want beginner magic look at the Encylcopedia of Card Magic, or the Royal Road, the Expert at the Card Table is more of the Long and Winding Road to Card Magic. Taking the long and winding road may be beneficial to your card magic.

    I've drank the punch though and I do not believe that there is a good replacement for the Expert at the Card Table. A good portion of the techniques described in the book are not widely used and are still very good. The Erdnase break for example is how I believe all

    Dover reprints a bunch of classics, there's only a few that are good for beginners. There are a bunch of good Dover reprints for intermediate magicians and advanced. Expert Card Technique has been mentioned, The Card Magic of Paul LePaul, and all of Karl Fulves books are good (beginner to intermediate). Martin Gardner's books are full of gems but they are tough to read sometimes, almost all of Martin Gardner's magic is easy to do. All Hugard and Braue books are good, beginner to advanced, you will get some repeats between books but they are all good. Theodore Anneman has tons of wonderful work, lots is easy, some is tough. Charles Jordan has some great mathematical magic as well.

    There are more modern books as well, but this is a huge library of magic as it is.
     
    Mr_ARPY likes this.

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