Article in LA Times about Magic Castle - L.A.’s storied Magic Castle shaken by allegations of sexual

Sep 20, 2009
446
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https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism

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I wanted to post this because although it might not be "Theory11 Relatable" there are some things in here that are Performance relatable, particularly the way a performer treated an "audience assistant"


I myself have experienced racism/bigotry/discrimination from the Magic Castle, Staff/employees, Other Performers, and also Guests, but also within the larger "Magic Community" or Magicians and Performers, audiences I have been performing at. as well as in everyday life.

I am one of many, not only in Magic but in the world
 
Jun 18, 2019
547
295
18
West Bengal, India
https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism

-------

I wanted to post this because although it might not be "Theory11 Relatable" there are some things in here that are Performance relatable, particularly the way a performer treated an "audience assistant"


I myself have experienced racism/bigotry/discrimination from the Magic Castle, Staff/employees, Other Performers, and also Guests, but also within the larger "Magic Community" or Magicians and Performers, audiences I have been performing at. as well as in everyday life.

I am one of many, not only in Magic but in the world
Scary and so, so horrible. Even worse, this isn't the first time I've heard of instances like this from the Magic Castle.
It's about time they take strong and firm action against this.
 
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Luis Vega

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Mar 19, 2008
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https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism

-------

I wanted to post this because although it might not be "Theory11 Relatable" there are some things in here that are Performance relatable, particularly the way a performer treated an "audience assistant"


I myself have experienced racism/bigotry/discrimination from the Magic Castle, Staff/employees, Other Performers, and also Guests, but also within the larger "Magic Community" or Magicians and Performers, audiences I have been performing at. as well as in everyday life.

I am one of many, not only in Magic but in the world

Can you tell us more about your experience? maybe not saying names of the people at the castle... but to give an accurate account of what happened to you? I think this is horrifying and should be addressed...
 
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Apr 27, 2015
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I grew up dreaming of visiting the Magic Castle. I was able to visit years ago, but since then, it feels like there have been more and more glimpses behind the curtain make it feel like something needs to be addressed. Something major. I am not surprised by the "old boys" network that feels like it might still be in control. I don't if the Adacamy directly runs the kitchen and dining operations or if they use a management company for that. If they do use an outside vendor, they should be let go ASAP and a rebuild from the ground up seems warranted.

I feel that ANYONE that performs magic should head the part about how we treat the spectators that help us with our magic. So many hack lines and routines are based on disrespecting and degrading audience members. Any "sucker" trick can (and should) be revamped to not make ANY audience member feel dumb, duped, or "less than." Magic has the power to uplift, entertain, and help people forget their worries that the "real" world imposes - let's use it for that.

I hope that the Castle and the Academy can improve and move forward past what feels like a troubled and bumpy part of its history. But, I'm not sure it can do that in a "no comment" sort of way. THANK YOU to Hannibal for giving a voice to those of us that feel that ANY type of sexism, racism, and all other forms of bigotry have no place at the Castle and no place in magic.

If there is a culture of dangerous and harmful behaviors at the Castle, I'm glad this article will help shine a light on them. Let's stop hiding in the dark corners of the mansion, step into the light and make the drastic, needed, and essential changes NOW!
 
Sep 20, 2009
446
83
Can you tell us more about your experience? maybe not saying names of the people at the castle... but to give an accurate account of what happened to you? I think this is horrifying and should be addressed...


There have always been the little comments " háu"(how) Pow-Wow, Redman or the stereotypical "Native" words or vocal inflections, I have been through the whole "we can't understand you speak English" other Mexican stereotypes, etc been told " I didn't know you people did magic" gone through the whole you sacrificed Humans thing, someone complimented me on the "Gardening" and said it was "nice they let the gardeners in the club once in a while"

another Staff/Member said "what are you doing in here Aren't you supposed to be getting cars for people"


when I was performing for a group of people another established member said "it must be better picking cards than picking fruit" which doesn't make sense because I wasn't picking the card... but I guess they thought it was clever?


some of the bigger ones were I was sitting in a show-room watching a performance asked If I was a Magician, and Then My Name, and when I told them they asked if I had my Green-Card, and said someone should call ICE, which someone else in the room said "don't worry I work in Law-Enforcement"

another time a well-known Magician (within the Magician community) said "when did they start letting the Savages in this club"

another well-established member said it "it would have been easier to cross the border if you could have "vanished" another time it was "it would have been easier to get your family across the border if you can make them vanish
another staff member made reference to a wall being built and me performing the David Copperfield illusion

if you know the Castle as a Member you check in with your Member Card, and I was subject to Random "Id checks" once a time I was asked for my social security number


there have been other occurrences, but I don't' want to make this out to me being a Victim, or me looking for sympathy


and this is just the Magic Castle
 
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RealityOne

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Nov 1, 2009
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@Liderc Those comments are absolutely disgusting. I'm just amazed about how some people lack basic decency. Each of those comments really says more about the person saying them then they do about you. I have no respect for people who have to put others down just so they feel superior.
 
Jun 18, 2019
547
295
18
West Bengal, India
There have always been the little comments " háu"(how) Pow-Wow, Redman or the stereotypical "Native" words or vocal inflections, I have been through the whole "we can't understand you speak English" other Mexican stereotypes, etc been told " I didn't know you people did magic" gone through the whole you sacrificed Humans thing, someone complimented me on the "Gardening" and said it was "nice they let the gardeners in the club once in a while"

another Staff/Member said "what are you doing in here Aren't you supposed to be getting cars for people"


when I was performing for a group of people another established member said "it must be better picking cards than picking fruit" which doesn't make sense because I wasn't picking the card... but I guess they thought it was clever?


some of the bigger ones were I was sitting in a show-room watching a performance asked If I was a Magician, and Then My Name, and when I told them they asked if I had my Green-Card, and said someone should call ICE, which someone else in the room said "don't worry I work in Law-Enforcement"

another time a well-known Magician (within the Magician community) said "when did they start letting the Savages in this club"

another well-established member said it "it would have been easier to cross the border if you could have "vanished" another time it was "it would have been easier to get your family across the border if you can make them vanish
another staff member made reference to a wall being built and me performing the David Copperfield illusion

if you know the Castle as a Member you check in with your Member Card, and I was subject to Random "Id checks" once a time I was asked for my social security number


there have been other occurrences, but I don't' want to make this out to me being a Victim, or me looking for sympathy


and this is just the Magic Castle
I am really surprised that the Magic Castle stands as tall and mighty in the magic community as it did years ago, seemingly without taking any measures against discriminatory and just simply offensive comments, especially when these cases are clearly not isolated cases (look at the horrifying numbers, and these are just the people willing to talk about it). I wish they release some sort of statement about the article.
Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that doing a second deal well doesn't necessarily mean we are a good human being in the slightest.
 
Aug 5, 2008
86
0
Some really Old School people still there.
They are from a different era and Still making those "sexist" and "racist" jokes that people don't like all of the sudden.
They are now offended
 

Luis Vega

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Mar 19, 2008
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Some really Old School people still there.
They are from a different era and Still making those "sexist" and "racist" jokes that people don't like all of the sudden.
They are now offended

It always has been wrong and racist, its just that now we acknowledge that.. like it was “ok” in germany in the ww2 to attack jews... times change and has nothing to do with “being offended”
 
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Aug 5, 2008
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It's not that people don't like it all of a sudden.
People (especially the communities, races, genders and sexes being made fun of) have never liked it.
It's just that we speak out loud now.
It always has been wrong and racist, its just that now we acknowledge that.. like it was “ok” in germany in the ww2 to attack jews... times change and has nothing to do with “being offended”

This all besides the point,
Point is, this stuff was "fine" even 10 years ago and they grew up on it.
Now everyone is hypersensitive to all things not "politically correct".
It will take many years to correct this "behavior", currently we are overcorrecting.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,800
207
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Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
This all besides the point,
Point is, this stuff was "fine" even 10 years ago and they grew up on it.
Now everyone is hypersensitive to all things not "politically correct".
It will take many years to correct this "behavior", currently we are overcorrecting.

So? the racist insults @Liderc endured should be accepted by him because the people saying it"grew up on it"? yeah.. not gonna happen and no... accusing people of "overreacting" and "hypersensitive" is the new way to say "wahh!!! let me say racist, hate, rude and misogynisct stuff without consequence" and saying "that was accepted 10 years ago" is not taking responsabilty for your own actions.
 

obrienmagic

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Nov 4, 2014
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Orange County, Ca
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Some really Old School people still there.
They are from a different era and Still making those "sexist" and "racist" jokes that people don't like all of the sudden.
They are now offended

The jokes were not ok then and should not be ok now. Just because people are finally staying up against it doesn't mean out of nowhere people are deciding to become offended.
 

obrienmagic

Elite Member
Nov 4, 2014
1,439
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Orange County, Ca
www.obrienmagic.com
This all besides the point,
Point is, this stuff was "fine" even 10 years ago and they grew up on it.
Now everyone is hypersensitive to all things not "politically correct".
It will take many years to correct this "behavior", currently we are overcorrecting.
Grabbing someone by the genitals or calling them racist/sexist names should and always must be called out. It is not "overcorrecting."
 
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RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,597
3,891
New Jersey
Point is, this stuff was "fine" even 10 years ago and they grew up on it.

So, I "grew up" in the 1980s (graduated college in 1990). None of those comments were "fine" when I was growing up.

Now everyone is hypersensitive to all things not "politically correct".

I don't think objecting to putting down people because they are different and pushing people to simply treat everyone else with human dignity is "politically correctness." I've seen this behavior from both ends of the political spectrum.

It will take many years to correct this "behavior", currently we are overcorrecting.

I think all it takes is someone (other than the person being insulted) to say "that's not right." That goes for all situation where one person is attempting to puff themselves up by putting others down. We don't have to tear those people down, but simply let them know that saying things like that doesn't increase their prestige but instead decreases it. If you remove the incentive, you change the behavior.
 
Aug 5, 2008
86
0
Relax.
No one said we should accept it,
Just explaining why these Old guys are acting like that.


None of those comments were "fine" when I was growing up.
The jokes were not ok then and should not be ok now.

Spare me.
we are obviously becoming more hypersensitive to things nowadays.
That is all I am saying.
Things that were "fine" aren't "fine" anymore.
What you said is not true.
This is why we are having all these people getting canceled left and right for things they publicly said years ago.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,597
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New Jersey
Relax.
we are obviously becoming more hypersensitive to things nowadays.
That is all I am saying.
Things that were "fine" aren't "fine" anymore.
What you said is not true.
This is why we are having all these people getting canceled left and right for things they publicly said years ago.

I think that there is some merit to what you are saying about "cancel culture" and oversensitivity. But that is not what this thread is about.

What was said or done in the examples in this thread is wrong - regardless of your age, politics or social status. Whether the focus is on race, ancestry, gender, religion or whatever other characteristic, the cruelty of saying something intentionally hurtful to another person based on how they are different is never acceptable. I think we can all agree on that.

Whether there are other examples where reasonable people can disagree regarding other comments made by other people in other situations is beyond the scope of this thread and beyond the scope of these forums. Let's keep the comments here focused on what has happened and what has been alleged to happen at the Magic Castle.
 
Nov 3, 2018
537
415
Relax.
No one said we should accept it,
Just explaining why these Old guys are acting like that.
I can appreciate an attempt at understanding another person's reasons for his actions, but your choice of words almost made it sound like you were defending the "old guys" in question or downplaying the bad experiences people have had with bigoted acts and statements. I believe that's the reason for the reactions your post got.

I think that there is some merit to what you are saying about "cancel culture" and oversensitivity. But that is not what this thread is about.

What was said or done in the examples in this thread is wrong - regardless of your age, politics or social status. Whether the focus is on race, ancestry, gender, religion or whatever other characteristic, the cruelty of saying something intentionally hurtful to another person based on how they are different is never acceptable. I think we can all agree on that.

Whether there are other examples where reasonable people can disagree regarding other comments made by other people in other situations is beyond the scope of this thread and beyond the scope of these forums. Let's keep the comments here focused on what has happened and what has been alleged to happen at the Magic Castle.
Well said. You should apply for that moderator badge next time round ;)

Let's keep the comments here focused on what has happened and what has been alleged to happen at the Magic Castle.
With that, allow me to get back on topic:
Reading the article has definitely tarnished my image of the Magic Castle. I've always wanted to visit it one day, but this knowledge has left a bitter taste with that wish. I sincerely hope this article will prompt them to get serious about their promises of equality and creating a comfortable place to work and visit. Lots of respect goes to people like Kayla Drescher and Chris Hannibal who have had the strength and courage to stand up for themselves and others!

@Liderc I'm sincerely sorry for the comments you've had to endure. When such a comment is directed at you, how would you like the people around you to react to it? In other words, what should I do when I hear such a comment directed at another person?
 
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