Artifice, Ruse & Erdnase

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by YGM7, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. i just wanted to start an ongoing thread about opinions and help on moves in erdnase
    and if anyone would like to share another candidate for who S.W Erdnase
  2. I don`t know who Erdnase was, but I don`t think it was Wesley James ;)
  3. Id love to see a video of his cut to retain bottom stock.
  4. Love Erdnase. Even made a tribute video back when I was 14. A good friend and magician Spencer Peterson has a tattoo of the second deal illustration that accompanies the move in the book - 'fig. 2'.

    What are your favorite moves from the book?
  5. diagonal palm shift and bottom palm first method would be the two moves i do the most
  6. they should make a movie about erdnase
  7. Iv seen your video its great. My favorite moves are his top stock shuffle and the top stock running cut.
  8. i just want to know why erdnase put a question mark in the phrase "reformed (?) gamblers" in the preface
  9. In my opinion, because of John Philip Quinn.
  10. remind me who he is
  11. John Philip Quinn was a Chicago-based cheater who wrote self-aggrandising books preaching about the evils of gambling and "exhuming some antiquated moss-covered ruses" used by gamblers. He certainly fits the bill of "whining, mealy-mouthed pretensions of piety" and "terrific denunciation of former associates" to which Erdnase refers. In addition, we know from his own book Fools of Fortune that he had beef with some of the gambling community in his Chicago (where, of course, The Expert at the Card Table was published). If you read Quinn's work, he not only names (genuine) names of some of the biggest people on the scene in Chicago at the time, but he also implies that all cheating is done with gaffs and the manipulative skill of the cheater is minimal. Added to this, from David Ben's biography of Dai Vernon we learn that "Quinn was not so reformed after all" as he tried to get into a poker game when he visited Vernon's home town.

    My opinion is that Erdnase wrote his book almost as a direct rebuttal to Quinn.
  12. does anybody know about the off broadway show called "who killed erdnase"
  13. i am going to be erdnase for halloween any ideas
  14. Suit from the 1920'a and a willingness to explain who you are to everyone.
  15. 1902!!!!!!!!!!
  16. Yes yes. It was a typo. Also, the styles aren't that much different. Only someone very familiar with turn of the century fashion would know.

    It would serve just as well to say "Old style suit"
  17. #17 Qlancy, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2013
  18. First off - Calm down. I already said it was a typo.

    Second off - if you're going to use a picture to prove me wrong, don't choose one that has a long overcoat covering everything, and another that shows the actual fashions. For future reference, that overcoat would have gone over the suit jacket as well.
  19. Just a comment -

    While Quinn certainly fits the bill of the type of person Erdnase was writing about, a better example is probably J. H. Green. He did the same thing as Quinn but a half-century earlier and actually billed himself as THE "Reformed Gambler." He also wrote several books decrying the evils of gambling whereas Quinn had only written one (at least by 1902). Gambling and Gambling Devices by Quinn didn't come along until 1911 or so.

  20. Thanks for your thoughts Jason! One reason for my focusing on Quinn as a target for Erdnase's ire is precisely because Green was so much earlier. Erdnase seems to be genuinely irked by these people's "hypocritical cant", and it seems unlikely to me that he would be so concerned about someone who had died in 1887. Unless, of course, the book was written much earlier and hung about in manuscript form for years. Which is always possible. Also, I haven't been able to connect Green with Chicago in any meaningful way, whereas Quinn was a Chicago resident, which means that his "terrific denunciations" may well be not just of his own "erstwhile associates", but possibly also those of Erdnase. It just seems that Quinn was a bit closer to home chronologically and geographically for Erdnase than Green was.

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