Best Pass Ever

Aos

Mar 6, 2008
453
1
whats impressive about this?
all he has to do is do it a little faster than the fps of his _cheap_ camera
im pretty sure this thing is running at 15
peoples eyes range but they usually run faster than 60
thats four times faster
also he _completely_ removes all sound from the performance
sound is the _hardest_ thing to control during a pass
the pass is simply not performable uncovered in real life
anybody grilling the deck will see the white border scoot across
this is a pure camera trick

ps: you guys have way too many xes in your names
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 8, 2007
181
0
That's nice. Some of the moves were undetectable... too undetectable.. hmm

I agree on the fact that the camera was a little slow and that it probably covered up some of his movements but I wouldn't go assuming right away that it's all camera trickery.
 
There are so many things I want to say regarding these types of topics. I personally feel they're absolute nonesense and cannot be in any way proved at all. We can all speculate about who's got "the best pass ever", but it's ultimately something that we will never find an answer to. For one thing, someone who we think has the best pass on video, may have the worst pass in real life. It's unfortunate but usually the case with many things in magic - they tend to focus on just one angle; the webcamera angle.

I personally don't find any of these videos to be particularly amazing at all, because they have the wrong idea to start with. The pass is a move that was created under misdirection, a moment of time when the audience isn't paying attention to the pack. This is the complete opposite to that of any Pass videos on the net; and they say "OMGz, thts da best pass eva!!!", or my personal favourite in the comments, "Perfect." - Is it?

The initial idea of these shifts is that is it supposed to look like "nothing"; but every single one of these videos look like "something". In the case of these videos, the unnatural jerky action of the hands heavily give away that something is happening, when it should be the other way around. The final thing I dislike of both "Pass" and "Colour Change" clips is the sheer boring sense you get of them. So you can do a decent Pass, well done - what else can you do? I would personally like to see how that pass could be utilized in an effect, rather than just film a technique to shift two packets.

I am very sorry for the rant but I feel it needed to be said. I see too many of these around and every single Pass video you see on the net has the wrong idea, the very wrong idea. It is great that they are working on these techniques, but until they utilize it in an interesting way, I don't feel it's worth sharing to the community.

Remember: it's not what you got, but it's what you can do with it that counts. ;)

Jordan
 
Just watched it frame for frame. I don't think there was a single pass in the video.....his hands are too open anyway, if 2 packets changed places, you'd be able to see it. There's no way to pass invisibly if someone's looking for a pass.
 
Sep 1, 2007
182
0
Melbourne
In the words of Erdnase,
"The shift has yet to be invented ...that can be executed with the hands held stationary and not show that some manuever has taken place, however cleverly it may be performed."

also the smart gambler won't do a thing when someone is watching, therefore implying the importance of misdirection.

The pass shouldn't be viewed as just a technique with the hands but as a combination of the hands, body and misdirection. Like Jordan said, all these stupid 'perfect' pass videos are so pointless because the people watching are going "wow thats a good pass"........
the fact that they say that means you have failed in keeping the shift secret.
Remember, a secret move is only secret if nobody sees it coming, and nobody realizes when you've done it... very much like a well timed top change.
 

Aos

Mar 6, 2008
453
1
jordan
i think you got too hung up on the phrase "the best"
it doesnt _actually_ mean the best
its just something you say
there is no argument weather that was the best pass
the only argument is weather that was a good pass
it looked ok
his hands didnt move much
but there was no audio
and it was a very cheap camera
so there is no reason to talk about it
since we are not even seeing the other three quarters of the performance
in the form of those missing frames
you also get too hung up on this business of showing off your pass
who cares?
its a magic sleight like any other
all other ones get displayed on youtube
why not this one?
now
i would definitely not post a video of me doing the pass as a color change
thats silly
but if i wanted to show my pass off to magicians
i would get a relatively high resolution camera
with a good speed
and keep the sound in
i would do a trick
and say that the pass was involved
that way people could comment on it
and give me feedback
which is important
but my tone would not be
'BEST PASS EVER!!!!11!!!one!!!1!!eleven!!'
which leads me to dismiss this topic
 
Sep 1, 2007
279
1
Well said Jordan.

I don't say that I wouldn't enjoy seeing someone execute a difficult shift awesomely. However I will say that I hate it when people with bad webcams post videos of their passes. The pass is a fast move and any bad quality camera will not be able to detect the move even when it's done poorly. I don't say that the guy on the video doesn't have skills (I don't know if he does) but the video is absolutely pointless.

The best passes are the ones you don't see. If you say you've seen a perfect pass then it wasn't perfect.
 
jordan

i think you got too hung up on the phrase "the best"
it doesnt _actually_ mean the best
its just something you say
there is no argument weather that was the best pass
the only argument is weather that was a good pass
it looked ok
his hands didnt move much
but there was no audio
and it was a very cheap camera
so there is no reason to talk about it
since we are not even seeing the other three quarters of the performance
in the form of those missing frames

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you also get too hung up on this business of showing off your pass
who cares?
its a magic sleight like any other
all other ones get displayed on youtube
why not this one?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now
i would definitely not post a video of me doing the pass as a color change
thats silly
but if i wanted to show my pass off to magicians
i would get a relatively high resolution camera
with a good speed
and keep the sound in
i would do a trick
and say that the pass was involved
that way people could comment on it
and give me feedback
which is important

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aos,

I don’t wish to start arguments; I’m not like that – but your response here seemed to lack basic understanding of what I was implying in my post. You say that I got too hung up on the phrase "the best", but after all – that is the topic’s name. Although if I did get too hung up about it, that was only one third of my original point made. Yes, it was a good pass in that it was fairly invisible. But it was also a terrible pass in that you could blatantly see that something was taking place. The fact of the matter is, the pass is a move that should not be noticed; which means making such videos is inferior to its context. Ineski hit the nail on the head, “The best passes are the ones you don't see.”

Which brings me to my next point, you say that the pass is like any other that gets displayed on YouTube – I never said it wasn’t and I completely agree with you. “Who cares?” I certainly do; and so would any who respect the art and its contents. For me, magic is my life and I am very happy to be apart of such an amazing party. But when all anyone can do is post inferior videos of moves which have absolutely no need at all, then something is wrong. If I am honest, I can only wish that effects and routines themselves were published on YouTube, not just single moves and sleights that should be incorporated into something “watchable”. As for the third thing, I completely agree with you and it was what my original post was implying.

I do not understand the need for the comment you gave, as it only seems to be trying to entice these unneeded feuds. (Although that may just be my interpretation; it is hard to understand the expression in the post when reading it.) In short, I think we should calm down now, because everything you said was exactly what I was getting at originally. :)

Warm regards,
Jordan
 

Aos

Mar 6, 2008
453
1
i largely agree with that you said
the move isnt supposed to be performed like that
and in fact it _cant_ be performed like that live
the guy clearly missed the entire point
i was just saying that even if he did want to show off
he failed because of camera quality and editing
the video sucks all around

by 'who cares' i meant that there a millions of videos like this all over youtube
you have to learn to let it slide
they good thing is that they are usually restrained to youtube
nobody does a single technique over and over again in real life in front of people
its just kids with a cheap camera and a deck of cards and lots of free time
so there is no use in getting upset and rant

i didnt mean to start anything
i was using what you said to talk more about the video
 
Oct 31, 2007
57
0
35
There are so many things I want to say regarding these types of topics. I personally feel they're absolute nonesense and cannot be in any way proved at all. We can all speculate about who's got "the best pass ever", but it's ultimately something that we will never find an answer to. For one thing, someone who we think has the best pass on video, may have the worst pass in real life. It's unfortunate but usually the case with many things in magic - they tend to focus on just one angle; the webcamera angle.

I personally don't find any of these videos to be particularly amazing at all, because they have the wrong idea to start with. The pass is a move that was created under misdirection, a moment of time when the audience isn't paying attention to the pack. This is the complete opposite to that of any Pass videos on the net; and they say "OMGz, thts da best pass eva!!!", or my personal favourite in the comments, "Perfect." - Is it?

The initial idea of these shifts is that is it supposed to look like "nothing"; but every single one of these videos look like "something". In the case of these videos, the unnatural jerky action of the hands heavily give away that something is happening, when it should be the other way around. The final thing I dislike of both "Pass" and "Colour Change" clips is the sheer boring sense you get of them. So you can do a decent Pass, well done - what else can you do? I would personally like to see how that pass could be utilized in an effect, rather than just film a technique to shift two packets.

I am very sorry for the rant but I feel it needed to be said. I see too many of these around and every single Pass video you see on the net has the wrong idea, the very wrong idea. It is great that they are working on these techniques, but until they utilize it in an interesting way, I don't feel it's worth sharing to the community.

Remember: it's not what you got, but it's what you can do with it that counts. ;)

Jordan


I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. These video's are ridiculous. The pass isn't meant for people to see, it's so people don't see. Making videos like this and praising people for how great they are when, really no one will ever see it in a performance, is pretty stupid. Not to mention it supports exposure. There are so many idiots on youtube showing videos of their passes that people can easily figure it out from a video of someone else who saw it on youtube. It's a never ending circle of stupid.
 
Aos, it was hard to tell from your post which 'side' you were on, as you seemed to be against and for what I stated; it was certainly confusing. Nevertheless, I think I understand your views a little more now and I'm glad it was worked out in the end.

joecarr14, I think this video defeats the object. This topic referres to "the best pass", and his performance somewhat flashed the technique of the two packets shifting; it was not invisible because it did not use any form of misdirection to accomplish the move (as was originally mentioned earlier). The thing that saddens me most however, is to hear his own comment in the description, "...but my pass in this video is flawless."

Orin10, that's a great point you made. I hadn't thought of the exposure side of it myself, and now that I do it only makes me feel what I did before, but only greater. Thanks for contributing your thoughts. :)

Warm regards,
Jordan
 
There are so many things I want to say regarding these types of topics. I personally feel they're absolute nonesense and cannot be in any way proved at all. We can all speculate about who's got "the best pass ever", but it's ultimately something that we will never find an answer to. For one thing, someone who we think has the best pass on video, may have the worst pass in real life. It's unfortunate but usually the case with many things in magic - they tend to focus on just one angle; the webcamera angle.

I personally don't find any of these videos to be particularly amazing at all, because they have the wrong idea to start with. The pass is a move that was created under misdirection, a moment of time when the audience isn't paying attention to the pack. This is the complete opposite to that of any Pass videos on the net; and they say "OMGz, thts da best pass eva!!!", or my personal favourite in the comments, "Perfect." - Is it?

The initial idea of these shifts is that is it supposed to look like "nothing"; but every single one of these videos look like "something". In the case of these videos, the unnatural jerky action of the hands heavily give away that something is happening, when it should be the other way around. The final thing I dislike of both "Pass" and "Colour Change" clips is the sheer boring sense you get of them. So you can do a decent Pass, well done - what else can you do? I would personally like to see how that pass could be utilized in an effect, rather than just film a technique to shift two packets.

I am very sorry for the rant but I feel it needed to be said. I see too many of these around and every single Pass video you see on the net has the wrong idea, the very wrong idea. It is great that they are working on these techniques, but until they utilize it in an interesting way, I don't feel it's worth sharing to the community.

Remember: it's not what you got, but it's what you can do with it that counts. ;)

Jordan

I actually couldent agree with that more... Well said man, Well said
 
Dec 28, 2007
54
0
I cant understand peoples fixation with the pass!!
Even very quick passes get seen because the shoulders hunch, the patter (if any) slows and become unatural. Usally the deck is brought too close to the body because its natural to keep things as far away as possible from people to hide something. It looks odd.

After a card is returned to the deck, the most natural place for a spec to look is at the deck. So many great passes get seen because the magician doesnt know what else to do when his hands are being burnt. He has to do the pass as he has nothing else to do. "Hey! i saw you do something!!!" says the spec.

In the real world (not the web cam world) of magic spec say things like "i dont want to put it there, stop cutting the deck". The webcam pass masters are fall flat on their faces here.

If you want to look good on the webcam you are wasting your time. You can always see the pass.
Alternatively, if you are a real world magician, spend more time on misdirection, psycology and patter. You will get away with pulling an elephant out of your jacket, let alone a pass.

Rant completed.
 
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