Bottom Deal -

[DaveP3]

1.

Hello all,

I have been practicing the bottom deal for a couple of days now, and I figured I would like to document my successes and struggles throughout the months/years. As well as getting feedback as it comes, if this is okay with the moderators and it doesn’t break any rules.

To start off with I am using Jason’s instructional video, so as he stated I am starting with the Erdnase grip. And boy I didn’t realize how sore my palm would be getting from doing this specifically around the base of the thumb. But it has made it difficult to continuously practice I mean I get like 5-10 minutes here and there. Right now I am struggling with the third and forth finger working as one, from what I read this is fairly common, not only that but when I try and loosen the one card from the 1/2 of deck I am using I noticed at times all the cards slip or they spring and I’m playing 25 card pick up. I am sure this is a learning curve like some of the other sleights I have taught myself, but man it’s irritating when you hear the instructions and you see clearly the actions you try and mimic them and you know you still have miles to go.

I recently watched the 2017 updated version and found out the third finger needs to be basically on the bottom of the thumb, it’s ironic actually I am bending the bejebus out of the bottom card that is on the corner where my thumb is but it doesn’t quite pop out like the intended action is supposed to do.

I’m going to keep practicing and I will read the comments and I’ll update when I get a wee bit of progress.

thanks for reading.

 

[DaveP3]

Sorry just realized this was in the wrong spot posted in correct location if you would like to delete thank you.



QUOTE="DaveP3, post: 501444, member: 193876"]1.

Hello all,

I have been practicing the bottom deal for a couple of days now, and I figured I would like to document my successes and struggles throughout the months/years. As well as getting feedback as it comes, if this is okay with the moderators and it doesn’t break any rules.

To start off with I am using Jason’s instructional video, so as he stated I am starting with the Erdnase grip. And boy I didn’t realize how sore my palm would be getting from doing this specifically around the base of the thumb. But it has made it difficult to continuously practice I mean I get like 5-10 minutes here and there. Right now I am struggling with the third and forth finger working as one, from what I read this is fairly common, not only that but when I try and loosen the one card from the 1/2 of deck I am using I noticed at times all the cards slip or they spring and I’m playing 25 card pick up. I am sure this is a learning curve like some of the other sleights I have taught myself, but man it’s irritating when you hear the instructions and you see clearly the actions you try and mimic them and you know you still have miles to go.

I recently watched the 2017 updated version and found out the third finger needs to be basically on the bottom of the thumb, it’s ironic actually I am bending the bejebus out of the bottom card that is on the corner where my thumb is but it doesn’t quite pop out like the intended action is supposed to do.

I’m going to keep practicing and I will read the comments and I’ll update when I get a wee bit of progress.

thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]

 

[DaveP3]

Here is the card after I get it unstuck in Erdnase. LMFAO

 

[DavidL11229]

If you are having trouble with the buckle, just practice that and don't worry about the bottom deal. Find a packet trick and learn to buckle with just 4 cards, or forget the trick part and just learn the buckle with the 4 card packet anyway. Then, when using the whole deck, try holding the deck in Biddle grip with your right hand to steady the deck while you buckle. Go back to doing it one handed when you can.

 

[Gabriel Z.]

With the bottom deal you probably are not going to get it right off the bat(That's normal). The move takes years to perfect so you are going to either be committed to learning/practicing for the next 5-10 years. Jason Ladanye has a blog up about the bottom deal: https://www.cardmagicbyjason.com/the-perfect-bottom-deal/ .... It's really all it boils down to is you're commitment level. Like for me my favorite move is Up The Ladder been doing it since 2013. I'm committed to the move which is why I spend more time with it then any other move in my arsenal.

 

[Scodischarge]

I have been practicing the bottom deal for a couple of days now

I was tempted to stop reading here and reply already. In his Penguin Lecture Jason England once said (jokingly): "Don't ask any questions on the bottom deal if you haven't practiced it for a year."
What does he mean by this? The bottom deal is one of the moves you will constantly practice, refine the technique, practice, change again, refine, practice ... and did I mention practice? for a few months before it starts becoming acceptable -- and even then you still have a lot of work to do to perfect it.
Example: When I started with the Madison bottom deal I spent a whole of two weeks (!) not managing the [insert cuss word of choice] push-out action. So, though I understand it's frustrating, don't get discouraged after just a few days

That said and emphasized, let's move on to a few tips:
1. Get Daniel Madison's BD Masterclass. I know I'll get some heat for this, but hear me out: No, his bottom deal is not the best I've seen. It doesn't even come close to some of those you'll find out there. However, it's a good technique to start out with; I find the deal (which comes from a sort of Erdnase grip) a lot easier than the original Erdnase grip described in Jason England's 1on1. It follows, of course, that you shouldn't stop there; once you're more or less proficient with this technique, I'd recommend to you to continue with Jason England's tutorial and the Erdnase, Gene Maze, Mechanic's Grip he covers.
Second, DM emphasizes points that are much too rarely stressed, for example to find a grip that suits your hands.

2. What I just said: Find your own grip. Jason England has got bear's paws. Don't expect to be able to mimic his grip exactly and still seem relaxed. You're starting with the Erdnase grip? Try moving your second finger away from the upper right corner and move it just 1/4 inch towards the center top. Do the same with your first finger: Move it away from the top left and further into the center (the grip should now look similar to the Gene Maze grip Mr England details). This will probably relax your grip a lot and help with the unbuckling and extraction of the bottom card ('cause the finger isn't in the way any more). Move them around a bit, shift the deck in your hands a bit, play around with different finger positions for fingers 3 + 4 as well until you've found something that suits you. The techniques themselves should remain similar, but be easier to execute (but nevertheless take a lot of practice!).

I hope these tips help you a little bit, if I think of anything else I'll add it. Concerning videos on your progress, if you don't want to put it here for everyone to see, ask a few of the people here if you can send it to them per PM; I'm sure they would be glad to help.

Hope I could help!

 

[DaveP3]

Thank you for all the responses, I will address them later. I have to go into work, and I was practicing. And I was able to buckle multiple cards without the deck springing.

this post is for those struggling with the same issue, I was putting too much pressure on my 2nd finger and the base of my thumb. I loosened up a whole lot and it still remains in place but I am able to get the bottoms card out, using the Erdnase grip and 25 cards.

I appreciate all the advice but I’m going to keep practicing this grip for a few more weeks before moving on.

I wanted to make a note of this before I progressed and forgot what the issue was.

thanks again.

 

[Scodischarge]

this post is for those struggling with the same issue, I was putting too much pressure on my 2nd finger and the base of my thumb. I loosened up a whole lot and it still remains in place but I am able to get the bottoms card out, using the Erdnase grip and 25 cards.

Congrats, you found one important bit of advice I forgot all on your own
You're correct, a not too tense grip is very important.

Best of luck to you!