By Forces Unseen from Stephen Minch?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by towtox, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. By Forces Unseen is knuckle-busting the entire way, pick up something easier. Get Aaron Fisher's book, The Paper Engine.
  2. This is a video of performances from a lot of the effects in BFU I guess if that looks like the kind of stuff you want to perform you could try getting the book but the learning curve is STEEP. Way steep. I mean really, you've had two people already advise you against getting it so that should say something. None of those effects are going to come to you without some serious, extensive practice. What I think is most likely going to happen is you'll get the book, read through it, try some of the sleights taught in it, say "HOLY $#&% THIS STUFF IS HARD!", close the book, and if you stick with magic then years down the road you may open the book up again and have some of it actually make sense. At THAT point you'll be glad you have the book.

    The best way I could put it is this:

    Is the book worth the money? Yes. However, the more important question is are you at the level where you can get your money's worth from the book? If you are, after 9 months, you are a prodigy.

    I'd say you already have a lot of material as it is. Go out and perform it, make the most out of what you got. You already have the resourses to absolutely melt brains out but you have to dig through there and study it to figure that out.

    Do you think a karate master ever stops practicing how to throw a simple punch?
  3. You may try but you will not succeed....take your 9 months of experience and learn some "easy to master card miracles"...Don't think that you will be able to perform one of the effects in the book in less than 1 month...What I am saying is that the effects in the book need different sleights to be learned and perfecting them does not take 3 days... Overall it usually takes a beginner yrs to actually perform the stuff there to perfection... a la Elite Prestidigitation.
  4. Very difficult...although I have some tricks down now...I think is not advisable for you to look into may buy if you want...but I still...don´t recommend it...
  5. HEy elite calm down no need to be so harsh i get it just cause your so cocky doesnt mean you need to be taking s**t if you arnt then sorry but it seems like you implided it go check out my oter thread about card techince and tell me
  6. It is not an easy book. TBH, it is not a very practical book either. The effects, if done with the method outlined in the book, are not suitable for walk around, street magic, standing situations, as they are quite angle sensitive, and sometimes heavily dependent on the use of a table (there are some exceptions here).

    There is a lot of palming involved, and not your typical top palm. Palm to palm transfers are used as well.

    There are some amazing ideas in the book, however, at only 9 months, I doubt you will be able to truly understand and appreciate just how amazing those ideas are. This is not being harsh, just truthful. There are a gazaillion other ideas and principles in card magic that you need to learn and understand first.

    As others have suggested, get:
    The Paper Engine
    Card Fictions
    One Degree
    etc... If you are looking for something a bit newer. But, By Forces Unseen, is maybe a bit too soon.
  7. BFU is one of the greatest books of all time. But, with that said, it will take you a long time and a lot of practice. I don't doubt you could do it with practice, but I wouldn't want you to buy it, not be able to do it, get discouraged and end up quitting magic. Get Erdnase.
  8. +1 Like.

    I will mention Aaron Fisher's book again because it is one of the few books that isn't a classic in card magic that I own. The descriptions are VERY thorough and specific, and the pictures aren't even necessary. They are a nice touch to have however. The sleights are very practical when performed right and the book is full of sleight of hand that you will actually USE in your performances. That, and it's only $25.

    Buy it.

    Or get into Erdnase and become Bill Kalush and Dan's best friends. But I still stand by The Paper Engine.
  9. Totally agree with this. Earick put out this book to showcase his sleights. He just came up with tricks to revolve around those sleights. It's also the objective of the student learning from the book to try and create new methods of their own.

    From the Apologia by Earick himself:

    "Finally, if, someday, some young magician approaches me tentatively to show me his or her creation using one of the sleights contained within these pages, and my breath is taken away as I realize that this person has had the insight and creativity to pursue my original vision to a place I could not begin to dream of, I suspect that then, and only then, will I know just what a dreadful mistake this book has been. Oh well. Read on.

    Earnest Earick
    February, 1993"

    Take his sleights that he described in his book and create WITH them. That was the whole point of his book. Take the sleights, make them your own, and amaze.

  10. It is a lovely book! That said I'll second about every previous post. BFU is a book for advanced intermediats to expert level card guys looking for a challenge. I have been playing around with it for about four months now and I'm having a great time with it. That said, with all that practice, I have yet to get any of the effects "performance ready." The truth is that you should be at a level where you already have enough solid "worker" effects that you are happy with. Enough tricks that you won't get bored with what you are performing while you take the time to work through BFU. I hope that makes sense...Basically you should be at a point where you won't mind spending a couple months practicing an effect before you get a chance to show it.

    If you are looking for material that you can start presenting within a month then check out some of the other books mentioned(I'd add a personal vote for The Paper Engine but their were many other good suggestions mentioned) BFU is a book that, by Earick's own admission, will appeal to people who appreciate sleight of hand for it's own sake. In modern parlance, it's a book for "move monkeys."
  11. Getting Back on My Soap Box...

    Why would you want to move into Minch's material?

    Are you going to commit yourself to Mentalism or are you going to half-ass things and mix magic with it?

    Most all of Stephan's material is for die-hard mentalists not wannabe novices. While I certainly would never deny anyone the right to choose their material I will always challenge them when it comes to ways of defining and bettering both, themselves and what they exhibit for the public... such is the case at hand and why I'm asking you what your interest is in Minch's material?

    Stephan was Old School Mentalism all the way, none of this Mental Magic middle of the road stuff you see so many doing now days, so if you are in a take no prisoners mind set there is some ground work that must be laid first, before you're ready for this and most of Stephans offerings... such as getting proficient at Billets, Muscle Reading, a Memory System, using a Swami and/or Pocket Writing and the Crem de la Crem... Being Able to Read Others...

    You will notice that I didn't say "Cold Reading" in that such an idea is filled with holes, far too many to count and secondly, you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a Psychic Fair or working with the true believer using such bunk. That is not saying that you can't find some level of value in certain related material such as Henderson's "The Dance" but at the same time, I'd warn you away from the Ian Rowland book because it filled with theory and supposition penned by an admitted cynic whose never had to actually use his skills as a Reader for the sake of day to day survival... it's akin to having a framing carpenter tell you how to wire a house... The Rowland book is great resource material much later in life, once you know the foundation course.

    Getting back to your issue however... spend at least the next 12-18 months learning the basics and I'll go a bit further by saying you need to invest the next 4-5 months actually learning about traditional magic rather than all the stuff that's possible, once you have that solid footing. Study Bobo, the Wilson AND Tarbell courses, Bill Tarr's Now You See it Now You Dont books, etc. GET YOUR FOUNDATION!

    I'm assuming you're relatively young, so once you've built that core then you can begin to venture outward into the other fields such as Mentalism. Let me warn you however, this is a very dangerous arena, one that few actually excel in while many THINK they do it.

    I might come off as a grumpy old bear but it's only because I want to see people succeed in things, so don't hesitate to ask questions.
  12. Craig:

    Everybody is probably scratching their heads at this because they know Stephen Minch as an author (of this book and probably other such as Relaxed Impossibilities and Books of Wonder) rather than an amazing mentalist. This book is written by Minch but deals with the card sleights of Earnest Earick. The intensity factor of this book is similar to Minch's works on mentalism. So your advice is still good... get a foundation first.
  13. Understood and my mistake for assuming this to be one of his Mentalism books in that Mentalism is the only arena I know him from though I've only been able to read a small handful of his offerings (all of which I absolutely love).
  14. Tow I will say if you get BFU look at the bow-to-stern control. IIRC its taught in Proteus and it is an -extremely- convincing way to control a card to the top that you could probably assimilate into what you already do without an absolutely insane amount of work. It will still take a LOT of work. Just not an insane amount ;)
  15. This thread makes me sad.:(
  16. Why does it make you sad
  17. Because he does naughty things with BFU in the dark when nobody's around. Nasty, nasty things.
  18. Lmfao!!!!!

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