"Can I flip the card over?"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sendmindsacrosseons, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Hey there, I've been a magician for about a year now, and the first magic trick I ever learned, was David Blaines here then there, or "the sandwich trick" as a lot of late people call it.

    I actually just learned a new production for the reveal, and it's reinvigorated my feelings for this trick.
    However, the reason why I hardly do this trick anymore
    is because almost eight out of ten times when I put the card in the spectators hand and tell them to put their hand over it,
    They would ask if they could turn it over, or just straight up turn it over to check without asking.

    As a question from a magician, to other magicians,
    What patter, or misdirection, or tips, can you impart upon me to stop a spectator or their friends from telling them to check the card?
  2. My advice would be to take their focus away from their own hands. Make sure your patter doesn't make them doubt that they're holding something other than the card you say it is. I find it also helps to hold a card or your hands over theirs. When I do the "David Blaine Two Card Monte" (it's not the two card monte), I put the card I'm holding over the one they are when I'm talking about switching them, if that makes sense. It sort of subliminally keeps them from flipping it. Sorry if that doesn't make sense. It's 12:30am here and I just got off a 10 hour shift.
    Sendmindsacrosseons and Mattxdfa like this.
  3. It would also help to know what your current presentation of the trick is. What do you say when you're handing them your card? What do you say after?
    Sendmindsacrosseons likes this.
  4. To be completely honest, if someone WANTS to be a douchebag, you have nothing to do.
    It all boils down to your presentation skills and management. If they wanna see the card, most prolly you have accidentally indicated there's something fishy going on.
    OR another reason maybe your patter HEAVILY indicates what the effect is gonna be from the start. Start giving hints on what will be happening only when you are ready to reveal everything!
    But also, don't bash yourself for every time someone reveals themselves as a heckler. Sometimes, people are just, as I said, douchebags.

    The best FOOL-PROOF way I know is to try and identify such people. And when you do, keep the card in some other place.
    Know what? A tactic I have seen many magicians on YT use is put the card in their pockets OR throw it gently on the floor for them to step on it. I don't think you will have that problem then.
    Or you can do what I do. I simply keep the card between my teeth, works fine, and looks cool! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
    Because once you are in this situation, there's nothing you can do to save yourself. You can just AVOID this situation.
    Best of luck ;)
  5. I am glad you said this because I do "David Blaine's Two card Monte" and I never thought about putting the card I am holding over theirs or even keeping my hand over top of it. I have been mid trick and had people flip over the card they are holding. Great advice!
  6. Don't ever give them the opportunity to do so. Have them hold it out there and immediately start talking about how they need to keep that card safe, then say something about their card being in the deck (not explicitly, but imply it, or make it a bit hidden in your words). Also, have someone else do something too, that way the attention is directed elsewhere.

    Just because it's a pet peeve of mine, the "David Blaine Sandwich Trick" is a variation of a much older trick. I can't remember the exact name of it, but I'm fairly certain it's from Karl Fulves? @RealityOne can probably give us the right name

    And "David Blaine's Two Card Monte" is actually "Be Honest, What is it?" by Eddie Fetcher. The actual Two-Card Monte is a completely different effect.
  7. There isn't really anything special, I pretty much use the same patter I got with the trick, and it's similar patter to what David does in his first special, "blah blah blah here's step one, your card jumps to the top. Here's step two, hold out your hands flat like a table, hold this and put your other hand on top like a sandwich."
    The only thing I don't really ever add is the "hold it tight but not to tight so it's impossible, just enough so it's hard for me".

    I can definitely see now how I could be saying SOMETHING to subliminally make them uncertain it's their card.♤
    Antonio Diavolo likes this.
  8. I'm actually taking a screenshot of this because I had no idea these we're older tricks, I really enjoy knowing the crediting and so I'll look these up! Thanks for the heads up.♤
    Antonio Diavolo and Maaz Hasan like this.
  9. I mean it's not like I've run into anyone specifically trying to heckle me, I just kept having a bad string I people genuinely wanting to know if they can turn it over to check if it's still theirs, or their friends tell them to check, or they do it without asking as soon as I hand them the card.
    And as for the other handlings you're talking about, I actually did start doing the under the foot one, and you'd dribble the cards over it and hold onto the last one.♤
  10. I would change that. David Blaine has such a unique presentation style that he is one of the few people who can pull it off. Your patter needs to have a story. That's probably why your getting asked random questions. That type of patter is kind of... boring. You can do so much with the patter, why leave it in the most boring form possible?

    Trust me, if you develop a story and engage them, they'll be interested in the story, not the trick, and that's when your performance is amazing, because the trick hits them so much harder.
  11. You’re welcome mate!
    Mattxdfa likes this.
  12. When we do a D. turnover to show the so-called top card (really the second card) face-up (e.g Queen of Hearts) then flip it back onto the deck face down, then thumb off the supposed Queen of Hearts, and for example place the card in their hands, it is an inherently suspicious procedure. This is the case no matter how smooth and clean the D. turnover might be, and despite the fact that thousands of magicians have been doing (or attempting) this move for centuries.

    Why is it suspicious? For the simple fact that this is not a natural way to show a card and then place it in someone's hand, on a table or wherever. If someone was really going to do that, they would simply show the Queen and then directly place it into the spectator's hand, rather than flipping it face down back onto the deck, and then taking it off the deck and placing it into the spectator's hand. They might not be able to detect what we've actually done when we do the D. turnover then turn the "card" face down back onto the deck, but it will naturally raise suspicion to someone with decent logical abilities and common sense (and there are a lot of people like that even if we don't give them credit for it). So they know we can do sleight of hand, and because of the unnatural procedure involved with this particular move, suspicion is raised. We are asking them to take us on faith when they have every reason not to, knowing we are going to try to pull the wool over their eyes. As Erdnase said, "They must not even suspect, let alone detect." When we try to outwit a fairly intelligent person, they are naturally going to try to catch us out - to turn the tables on US.

    I don't do David Blaine's tricks, if indeed they are even his. But when I want to change a card in a spectator's hand (and I do, because it is SUPER-STRONG) my solution for this is to use a very old and not-very-well-known move called the "Throw Change (also known as the "Toss Change.") With this move, which I have been using for decades, you can open show a card face-up in your hand and then toss it into their hand face-down, accomplishing the change in the process. I normally do it after apparently failing to find the spectator's chosen card and then bringing about a change of the wrong card into their selected card in their hand. The inevitable surprise and powerful reactions to this have taught me that it is real fooler - they just can't imagine that you could have done a switch under the circumstances. Highly recommended!
  13. You are correct that Blaine's Two Card Monte is "Be Honest, What it It" and it can be found in The Magic of Eddie Fechter by Jerry Mentzer.

    The "Sandwich Trick" is generally acknowledged to be John Scarne's Switchcraft which appeared in Frank Garcia's Million Dollar Card Miracles (without attribution). There are multiple variations in The Close up Magic Of Frank Garcia. In that book, it was attributed to Annemann and Scarne for a variation performed on a beer commercial. The Annemann reference is probably to Here Or There by R. M. Jamison, which is in The Jinx in November 1936 and Annemann's Miracles of Card Magic. The Annemann version uses a hole punch while Scarne puts the card under a beer glass. So ultimately, it is Scarne's adaptation of R.M. Jamison's "Here or There."
  14. Oh that's right! I was thinking that I know the author created a book of nearly 100% self working card tricks, so that's why I thought Fulves. I also wrote Switchcraft for the 2 card monte, then said "no wait, that's backwards," and then proceeded to forget the name. Thanks!
  15. Of all the tricks I know where you give a spectator a card they’re not supposed to turn over, I’ve found Be Honest, Which Is It? To be the easiest to control. My presentation (and I’m sure most people’s) poses the whole thing as a test for the spectator. Can they keep track of the cards? And I be sure to let them know it’s a test so they can’t peak or it defeats the whole purpose of the thing.

    I’ve found it also sets them at ease if, after placing the first card in their hands (which has been correctly named), I let them take one last peak to make sure it’s really the right card. 99% if the time they will double check and feel sheepish for doubting me, and I never have any suspicions after that.
  16. Here or there is one of my favorite effects of all time. It’s simple, fast, direct, and it basically looks like real magic. Everyone else is right on point. You have to misdirect the person’s mind away from even thinking about their card. Make sure your turnovers are smooth as butter, your whole posture should be very relaxed and casual. I’ve found it helps if you present in a way that they don’t even know the trick has really begun yet. You can do this explicitly with patter (“before we get started, would you mind holding the two of clubs for me?”) and you can aim for that with your body language and the way you handle the cards.

    If you’re really having a hard time with it, you can also cheat by having the spectator hold the card in a way that would make it difficult to turn over. Put it under a full glass/bottle. Place it on the back of their hand and put their other hand over it. You would be surprised how well even small physical deterrents work.
    Sendmindsacrosseons likes this.
  17. That's really cool! That's kind of how I do mine, I start mine off with a story, but I change it into a game that the spectators are playing midway through.
    Sendmindsacrosseons likes this.
  18. If the audience is trying to catch you out, it's almost always due to the presentation/performer. Something the performer is doing is telling the audience that the goal of this performance is to catch them out.

    From what you posted above, I'm guessing it's that you're not giving them any reason to care about the magic, and it's coming across as a puzzle to be solved. That's a mistake almost everyone who imitates Blaine makes.
  19. I try and present it like we are making a bet or taking a gamble. I just have had a select few that once they shouldn't look, they do.
    Like you said, I have them check the correctly named card one last time. I think placing my hand over the card and changing the patter a little will help for sure!
    Maaz Hasan likes this.

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