Change overs and alike

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Koin, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. I havea coin routine and I need a way to show both hands empty beyind question and then end with the coin in classic palm. I can do the change overs taught in Modern Coin Magic but this never looks really natural or it seems a little bit off. I have seen a move by David Stone that is more of a wiping motion. Are there others that are realy good or does anyone have tips on the change over
  2. You could use a topit or sleeve the coin. Another thing you could do is to use the muscle pass as a ditch. Hope i am not exposing too much
  3. Koin, what you are referring to (David Stone's performance) is Michael Ammar's Wiped Clean, which can be found in numerous sources.
  4. Thanks for that referance.

    What is the point of all those things? Sleeving is a pain to get the coin back quickly because misdirection should be used and topits I don't think coins can be retrived without reaching in a grabbing the coin. The purpose of a change over is to keep the coin in your hands while showing the hands empty.

    OH! just got and idea. What is a good front-back coin manipulation that can be employed instead of a back palm? It would be better for the retrieveal if I used on hand instead of two. It would just look cleaner.
  5. Sorry Koin. I misunderstood your question. You could use fitch grip if you want. However, that does not show the hand completely empty. Another great replacement would be to backclip the coin. I do not remember the name given to that maneuver. I suggest looking into the cultural exchange DVD series. There are similar moves taught there.

    EDIT: the backclip is actually the goshman pinch just remembered
  6. I have thought of something while sitting in class. Use a Fitch palm then transfer into Thumb palm to soew the back of the hand. Then tranfer to Classic and show the front using Kaps.
  7. koin fitch palm is mis-named its jw grip.

    now that i got that out.... your running to much, rear thump palm, lattas nowhere palm, a tenki pinch, or what i do is just sleeve the coin.... no misdirection needed, try the catapault vanish from brian platts video.

    a subtile show of the hands empty is all you need, if you take so many step to over prove somthing your gonna slip or they will become suspiscious. iv never once had to do all those transfers to get someone to believe the coin is really gone
  8. JW palm? No the one I am thinking of is Fitch Palm. Anyways, there is a difference in them seeing the hand empty and you showing teh hand empty front and back. In reality there is no difference but in their minds it is different. It has to do with the amount of conviction they beleive the hand is empty. It is like a Simple Put versus a vanish that uses retention of vision. Sure what is accomplished is the same but because on carries more conviction than the other then it affects the audience differently
  9. Fitch palm was wrongly named that because someone miscredited the grip to Bob Fitch. It is actually a Jimmy Wilson grip, and is referred to as the JW grip.


    Eric deCamps has an interesting version of wiped clean, as does Giacomo Bertini. Learn wiped clean first, and then from there, experiment with the methods until you find one that feels natural for you.

  10. well if your already using the jw grip, you could simply transfer to finger palm turning the hand showing the entire thing ala david stone.

    rubinstin has a way using only one hand using a back clip transfering to angle palm.

    i think a tenki to angle palm or classic would be easist.

    if you really want to go outside the box just out john borns work

    i tend to perfer a more temporary ditch when i have to show tho

    i mainly sleeve, but watch bands, shirt openings, or a spectaors shoulder can work pretty good.
  11. i forgot somthing, larry branoski has a nice changeover, as well troy hooser does them often
  12. I feel you left out one important factor: naturalness.
    Taking the example of a false transfer, for instance: I work behind the register in a store, and I've taken that oppurtunity to observe how coins are naturally transferred from hand to hand. Hint: nobody uses retention passes ;).

    Going on that note, I believe one needs strong motivation to keep the hand in a position that provides the option of JW Grip. A second coin, an invisible coin, even adjusting the glasses or scratching your eyebrow, I've seen it done, and it works.

    As for going from thumb to classic palm: I find it creates a lot of unnecessary (and therefore unmotivated) movement in the fingers. Why not opt for a finger palm and Ramsay subtlety?

    BTW, congrats on getting your subtleties straight: I've seen a lot of top names mix 'em up, and I cringe everytime.
  13. The motions are done in such a manner that they are not even seen. Because the hand is in motion the small movement isn't picked up on. Just because you see coins exchanged doesn't mean a hole lot. How many customers are putting coins in there hands with the purpose of making sure that it is seen to go in. The RoV is used to strengthen the fact that the coin is in the hand which in turn strengthens the vanish. The JW is used in a way that is seems as if the hands are just being displayed.

    PS. PM about the origins of the JW and the name. Why is it know to some as Fitch and others as JW?: Everyone I talk to calls it the Fitch
  14. it was a miscredit. like how bobo called the tenki pinch the goshman pinch

    some who published the jw grip thought fitch came up with it, but he did not jimmy wilson did
  15. You could also learn the harada hold...From what i know you can apparently show your hand empty
  16. It's not a transfer, though.

    Larry Barnowsky's Flying Changeover palm is one of the best, as is a simple muscle pass into the finger tips.

  17. I think you're not getting my point. We are supposed to ask ourselves when practicing techniques: "How would I transfer a coin from one hand to the other? Let's make the sleight look like that as much as I can."
    I wasn't alking, by the way, about customers handling the coins, but me. When I transfer them in a way that would facilitate a simple false transfer, they believe I transfer the coins. Why? Body language and natrualness. I'm bound to get stares when I transfer them as if I were to do an RoV.

    As for P.S. Jimmy Wilson created the grip, and Bob Fitch popularised its use. Much like the Tenkai/Goshman Pinch matter.
  18. the harada hold allows you to show both hands empty. From there you can do a washing of the hands motion to bring it around the hold hand then back to opposing hand for a classic palm.
  19. Getting back to the first post in the thread... You're asking for what appears to be COMPLETELY empty hands, and then have a coin end up in classic palm.

    Why not actually have your hands empty, and do a steal? You could use a magnetic half and pocket magnet, or a "hoo" coin (if you don't know, don't ask ;), or just load from a coin dumper, lapel steal, or sleeve.

    If it MUST be in your hands, why not do a fickle nickel thing?

    People, don't be afraid to gimmick it up! You get much more impossible productions than can be done with pure sleight, which look very natural, and are EASY! The easier it is on the magician, the better... because then you can focus on the REST of the performance.

    I'm not saying DEPEND on the gimmick... sure, go ahead and learn some handwashing! But it may not be as amazing to LAYPEOPLE as, say, Fickle Nickel.

  20. I would have to go with the harada hold idea
    and then do the handwash which ends with the coin in thumb palm? or Mutobe palm maybe....

    but can easily be transfered back to classic palm as you wanted
    unless it doesn't match the flow of the routine you're planning.

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