Christian Magic

[deceptioproverum]

I am a christian magician doing magic to glorify God and spread the gospel
just wanted to know if any of you guys are too and if you are a christian magician how do you approach people and how do you transition from the trick and into the word of God ))

 

[chriswiehl]

not a christian magician, but i am a christian. i have done magic for my church group (the youth kids).
are you talking about doing street magic? or like church magic. or a strolling magic gig at a church function. that would be cool, like a church community picnic
very interesting idea.
i wouldnt advise you going up to people and start preaching. but you can always try to get to know the person more. and instead of going up to someone , showing a trick and telling them about god, do some normal tricks and just get to know them. maybe get a trick that goes into morals and into concious, then maybe get some of thoes book of john mini books.


good luck!
hopefully people wont be to against christianity. but this is a very interesting question if it is about street magic.

 

[AsherF]

I'm a christian. And a magician. I don't really feel I should force religion onto people, so I don't make gospel oriented magic, as far as patter and such goes. I feel you can lead by example which is one of the more important aspects when it comes to being a christian artist. and more approachable, when you walk the walk rather than appear to talk the talk. and even being a christian, and a strong one I like to think, I myself get annoyed by people coming into my bubble and throwing words at me. Although I do have to say I respect their courage. Lots to say on the subject, but trying to avoid religious debate.

 

[deceptioproverum]

not a christian magician, but i am a christian. i have done magic for my church group (the youth kids).
are you talking about doing street magic? or like church magic. or a strolling magic gig at a church function. that would be cool, like a church community picnic
very interesting idea.
i wouldnt advise you going up to people and start preaching. but you can always try to get to know the person more. and instead of going up to someone , showing a trick and telling them about god, do some normal tricks and just get to know them. maybe get a trick that goes into morals and into concious, then maybe get some of thoes book of john mini books.


good luck!
hopefully people wont be to against christianity. but this is a very interesting question if it is about street magic.

thanx I have already put some thought into alot of what you said and I totally agree

I mainly want to do street magic like with cards and find some way to change the patter of popular tricks like panic, riot, etc. into a christian trick

p.s. I like the Book of John idea

 

[deceptioproverum]

I'm a christian. And a magician. I don't really feel I should force religion onto people, so I don't make gospel oriented magic, as far as patter and such goes. I feel you can lead by example which is one of the more important aspects when it comes to being a christian artist. and more approachable, when you walk the walk rather than appear to talk the talk. and even being a christian, and a strong one I like to think, I myself get annoyed by people coming into my bubble and throwing words at me. Although I do have to say I respect their courage. Lots to say on the subject, but trying to avoid religious debate.

I understand where your coming from but I think it important to talk the talk and walk the walk and like chriswiehl was saying its not very good to throw it in their face instead get to know them a little bit first then kinda transition into the subject of the gospel

 

[LLin]

I personally am not a christian, however, I do occasionally do tricks with christian patters. However, I try to avoid doing that just in case I say something offensive. However, if you want to do those kind of patters, I recommend watching Barry and Stuart to get some inspiration =D

 

[scarecrow1]

I personally don't do Gospel magic. I am a Christian, but don't really care for the christian magician thing. I like to be just a normal casual kinda guy, I would agree with AsherF's thinking. If it works for you though, that's cool.

Cheers

 

[DannyT]

I suggest picking up "The Paper Engine" by Aaron Fisher and learning "The Omen".







Sorry, couldn't resist. . .

 

[TheNextHoudini]

One thing you could do is do some Dan and Dave style stuff and tie in. Like on tivo 2.O you could talk about how God transforms your life when he comes in. You could even right on the cards or on blanks. I think using Christian patter is a great idea and definately not "forcing" on to other people. Or maybe on a sandwhich effect you could talk about how the Lord surrounds you in his love.

 

[Haunter]

*Incoming rant. tl;dr The last paragraph is the useful one. Everything before that explains my reasoning for it.*

I think coming up with Christianity-themed tricks for performing at Christian events would be a beautiful thing. Assuming that they came to see you perform. If you are passionate about both magic and religion and can combine the two why not? Also, if through the course of a set the spectators mention Christianity it'd be brilliant to have a Christian piece to perform for them. It could make the whole experience more personal and special for them.

The idea of using it to somehow convert others however, is just filthy and wrong. Doing something like doing a trick to get them to talk to you and then 'transitioning' into Christian material is Bait and Switch. Flat out. You should understand that everyone you meet is going to have some kind of belief and when you preach to them you are challenging that belief. You are imposing your views and your will onto another. No one should have to deal with that.

Think of it this way, what if a magician came up to you and did some amazing trick then proceeded to walk you through all the steps of the trick. He shows you exactly how its done and says "The human mind is easily deceived and often things that look one way actually aren't as they appear to be. Looking at it from another angle you can see that nothing magic is actually going on. Just like how Christians will openly tell you about the lovey dovey parts of the bible but leave out all the genocide, rape and murder of children in the name of God. Magic isn't real and neither is God. Only a fool would accept either as a reality."

That would be pretty offensive to you as a Christian I imagine but an atheist may get a kick out of it. Chances are on any given day you wouldn't want to hear that or have to deal with someone trying to convert you to atheism.
Why do something disingenuous like that to push your agenda? Just perform magic that everyone (besides those bitter people who hate magic) can enjoy and save the preaching for church.

I feel a person's religion should be a personal thing and none of us have any right to tell others that their religion is right or wrong.

I don't think there would be harm in casually asking if they are Christian and if they say yes ask if they would like to see some Christian material. If they say they aren't Christian you can respond "Well thats ok. I have some Christian material but I think its rude to preach unsolicited so no worries. I'll keep Jesus in my heart and out of my cards for this performance." Then transition into your next trick. Non-Christians would appreciate a response like that and plus its such a nice way of handling the situation that people may ask to see your Christian material anyway.

 

[Sherlock]

I wouldn't do it, not at all. Especially for the close up scene it isn't very right to impose something like this on someone. I'm not talking about trying to convert them as I would assume you would have enough sense not to.

The problem is having these scripts based on christianity and it will make many people uncomfortable. You don't want people wandering if you are gonna try and preach about christianity and all of its nonsense.

I honestly can not stand people talking to me about any type of religion, if I wanted to know about God and understand him I would seek out the information. I don't need some random joe schmo asking about my faith, I don't care and I don't want to.

That's my opinion on this whole matter. However if you continue with it then do every agnostic and atheist a big favor, preach about the good and the bad. Talk about the murder and rape that was done in his name and the good also, that would at least be preaching the "truth" as most christians would like to avoid talking about.

 

[wZEnigma]

*Incoming rant. tl;dr The last paragraph is the useful one. Everything before that explains my reasoning for it.*

I think coming up with Christianity-themed tricks for performing at Christian events would be a beautiful thing. Assuming that they came to see you perform. If you are passionate about both magic and religion and can combine the two why not? Also, if through the course of a set the spectators mention Christianity it'd be brilliant to have a Christian piece to perform for them. It could make the whole experience more personal and special for them.

The idea of using it to somehow convert others however, is just filthy and wrong. Doing something like doing a trick to get them to talk to you and then 'transitioning' into Christian material is Bait and Switch. Flat out. You should understand that everyone you meet is going to have some kind of belief and when you preach to them you are challenging that belief. You are imposing your views and your will onto another. No one should have to deal with that.

Think of it this way, what if a magician came up to you and did some amazing trick then proceeded to walk you through all the steps of the trick. He shows you exactly how its done and says "The human mind is easily deceived and often things that look one way actually aren't as they appear to be. Looking at it from another angle you can see that nothing magic is actually going on. Just like how Christians will openly tell you about the lovey dovey parts of the bible but leave out all the genocide, rape and murder of children in the name of God. Magic isn't real and neither is God. Only a fool would accept either as a reality."

That would be pretty offensive to you as a Christian I imagine but an atheist may get a kick out of it. Chances are on any given day you wouldn't want to hear that or have to deal with someone trying to convert you to atheism.
Why do something disingenuous like that to push your agenda? Just perform magic that everyone (besides those bitter people who hate magic) can enjoy and save the preaching for church.

I feel a person's religion should be a personal thing and none of us have any right to tell others that their religion is right or wrong.

I don't think there would be harm in casually asking if they are Christian and if they say yes ask if they would like to see some Christian material. If they say they aren't Christian you can respond "Well thats ok. I have some Christian material but I think its rude to preach unsolicited so no worries. I'll keep Jesus in my heart and out of my cards for this performance." Then transition into your next trick. Non-Christians would appreciate a response like that and plus its such a nice way of handling the situation that people may ask to see your Christian material anyway.

Win.

[/THREAD]

That being said, I think that for a Christian crowd, magic can be a very strong message. I recently saw this at a youth conference this past weekend, where a guy by the name of Jared Hall (shameless plug, http://www.jaredhall.com/) did some great effects. He tied them into Christianity quite well. The message of "deliver us from sin" was a straitjacket escape, being created unique was in Snowstorm in China, and he had just plain fun ones.

He did it without being preachy. He's a fantastic magician, check him out. Plugs aside, I think that's the way to go. Forcing religion down other people's throats is definitely stupid, and it's something I try not to do. However, there's a double standard, as Christianity calls to spread the word of God, but there's that acceptance barrier. So it's a double-edged sword in my opinion.

In any case, magic is like religion. You have to believe in what you don't see, but when you do see it, it's amazing. So the concept of tying magic into religion is great. Wonderful, in fact. But that ethical lawsuit makes you kind of back away...

All in all, I agree with Haunter's essay...ish...post. However, if you're concerned about bringing more people to Christ, then perhaps gentle nudges would work without offending anyone, such as an ambitious card where you get "lost" in life and need some help from a higher source (magician, metaphorically resembling God).

Some Christians who are magicians don't intertwine the two, and with good reason. I'm Christian, and I personally don't, but I wouldn't be against it; I just believe that showing magic can be a religious experience in its own, and you wouldn't want to taint that in the eyes of a spectator.

Phew...(wordcount).

Ian

 

[Sherlock]

Like I wrote in my previous post, if somebody had a christian based routine and started it then I would walk away.

It's to awkward listening to someone who seems crazy and loony showing some card tricks and talking about god.

 

[Joe Garcia]

Magic and religion dont go very well, an exception is mentalism.

 

[deceptioproverum]

*Incoming rant. tl;dr The last paragraph is the useful one. Everything before that explains my reasoning for it.*

I think coming up with Christianity-themed tricks for performing at Christian events would be a beautiful thing. Assuming that they came to see you perform. If you are passionate about both magic and religion and can combine the two why not? Also, if through the course of a set the spectators mention Christianity it'd be brilliant to have a Christian piece to perform for them. It could make the whole experience more personal and special for them.

The idea of using it to somehow convert others however, is just filthy and wrong. Doing something like doing a trick to get them to talk to you and then 'transitioning' into Christian material is Bait and Switch. Flat out. You should understand that everyone you meet is going to have some kind of belief and when you preach to them you are challenging that belief. You are imposing your views and your will onto another. No one should have to deal with that.

Think of it this way, what if a magician came up to you and did some amazing trick then proceeded to walk you through all the steps of the trick. He shows you exactly how its done and says "The human mind is easily deceived and often things that look one way actually aren't as they appear to be. Looking at it from another angle you can see that nothing magic is actually going on. Just like how Christians will openly tell you about the lovey dovey parts of the bible but leave out all the genocide, rape and murder of children in the name of God. Magic isn't real and neither is God. Only a fool would accept either as a reality."

That would be pretty offensive to you as a Christian I imagine but an atheist may get a kick out of it. Chances are on any given day you wouldn't want to hear that or have to deal with someone trying to convert you to atheism.
Why do something disingenuous like that to push your agenda? Just perform magic that everyone (besides those bitter people who hate magic) can enjoy and save the preaching for church.

I feel a person's religion should be a personal thing and none of us have any right to tell others that their religion is right or wrong.

I don't think there would be harm in casually asking if they are Christian and if they say yes ask if they would like to see some Christian material. If they say they aren't Christian you can respond "Well thats ok. I have some Christian material but I think its rude to preach unsolicited so no worries. I'll keep Jesus in my heart and out of my cards for this performance." Then transition into your next trick. Non-Christians would appreciate a response like that and plus its such a nice way of handling the situation that people may ask to see your Christian material anyway.

Hello umm.. firstly, i see what you are saying and I would be very insulted if someone came up to me and did that but I think there are some things that you are missing. One, when done the right way telling ther people about Jesus isnt nessecarily an insult and telling the other person that they are wrong and they are going to hell for eternity it is supposed to be casual, informative and nonjudgmental (after all its Gods job to judge not ours) Second, Matthew 28:19 says "Therefor go and make disciples of all nations..." so its my job as a christian to tell others about him. Though I do agree with you on not bashing them with the word of God and insulting them )) That is wrong and unfair.

 

[visualartist]

I at times perform with spiritual/faith based illusions for people.
But I hate quoting scripture and specifically talking about the gospel and strictly christian religion.

To me a real effective person that wants to invite a spiritual or faith inspired trick,can do it without quoting scripture.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Hey pensyko3,

I have to say I appreciate your boldness with regards to your call to preach the gospel. I would love to hear your story sometime. You are right to not try and hide the faith, but to let your light shine in all that you do (Mt 5:16, 1 Cor 10:31). Far too many Christians only live for Jesus at church.
And don't get caught up with those who say "Magic and religion can't mix" because that's like saying "remove all your personality from your magic - they shouldn't mix" It's an uninformed thing to say that doesn't understand what being a Christians is like.

That said, there is wisdom in the approaches that people have mentioned. In our very "all about me" centered society and culture, people don't want to be told to 'do' anything.

Magic, much like music, is a very powerful communication tool. And there are countless ways you can use it to share your faith. One way would be to do magic with non-religious patter, and break down walls with the individual. Then let the spirit guide you as to what to speak.

A second idea would be to take your own personal story (your testimony) and weave it onto an effect or series of effects. Remembering to make it easy for a non religious person to understand, without the church lingo.

There are pros to both approaches. I personally think that one must be very careful to not make the magic cheesy. That's why I really like adding your own story to it. It makes your magic more intimate and personal, and it keeps it from being non threatening (because you are not talking about them, you are talking about you - they can't really argue with that or be offended by it).

I personally really like the first approach for a number of reasons. One being that I'm not super creative in the patter department. Another being I think we should use magic much like Jesus used parables. To teach an idea or a concept. Do a trick, then talk about how that concept related to the Gospel. (like Jared Hall does a straight Jacket escape, then talks about how that is like trying to escape from sin). And the third biggest reason is that I really feel that when you share the gospel, you should be you. Not Mr. Magician. Because the gospel isn't part of a show, it's real life. I think you will have a much better response from people when you are real with them, as yourself. Nobody wants the canned gospel presentation. As you read through scripture, there is no formula for presenting the gospel (to the dismay of many who think otherwise). It's different each time, for different people.
So don't can a gospel presentation, but rather use your magic to entertain and break down walls, and then let the spirit guide you as to what to say from there.

Hope that helps. A search will bring up a few other topics in this area that are pretty good.

Justin

 

[Cedric Taylor]

I am a christian magician doing magic to glorify God and spread the gospel
just wanted to know if any of you guys are too and if you are a christian magician how do you approach people and how do you transition from the trick and into the word of God ))

hey buddy i am glad you came by...what i'm doing is more ministry through helping...i'm hosting shows and a higher percent of the proceeds always go to the needy family.....

i am tryign to make my shwo bigger by doing more of my original stuff as well as other magicians work...that in all will alow me to do more and show more, and i can help out even bigger....

 

[RikAllen]

Your best bet is to get a good stand-up/parlor style show and pitch it to churches. Tell them to have a teens night and make it everybody's mission to invite a non-christian. Now your job is to open them up with magic that deals with biblical themes, but don't over do it or become preachy. Make it fun and use humor (something almost gone from most churches) and enjoy the moment.

I'm not a christian and will never do a christian-themed event, but the market is open and many magicians who are christians aren't tapping into it, so it could be a good ministry if you wanted to do it. Maybe try and get up with christian camps/events and ask if they want a christian magician.

Just a few thoughts, seeing as how approaching strangers on the street and tricking them (both with magic...and your reasons for showing). If you have friends who have questions, using magic to help explain what you're saying couldn't hurt though.

 

[wZEnigma]

Hey pensyko3,

I have to say I appreciate your boldness with regards to your call to preach the gospel. I would love to hear your story sometime. You are right to not try and hide the faith, but to let your light shine in all that you do (Mt 5:16, 1 Cor 10:31). Far too many Christians only live for Jesus at church.
And don't get caught up with those who say "Magic and religion can't mix" because that's like saying "remove all your personality from your magic - they shouldn't mix" It's an uninformed thing to say that doesn't understand what being a Christians is like.

That said, there is wisdom in the approaches that people have mentioned. In our very "all about me" centered society and culture, people don't want to be told to 'do' anything.

Magic, much like music, is a very powerful communication tool. And there are countless ways you can use it to share your faith. One way would be to do magic with non-religious patter, and break down walls with the individual. Then let the spirit guide you as to what to speak.

A second idea would be to take your own personal story (your testimony) and weave it onto an effect or series of effects. Remembering to make it easy for a non religious person to understand, without the church lingo.

There are pros to both approaches. I personally think that one must be very careful to not make the magic cheesy. That's why I really like adding your own story to it. It makes your magic more intimate and personal, and it keeps it from being non threatening (because you are not talking about them, you are talking about you - they can't really argue with that or be offended by it).

I personally really like the first approach for a number of reasons. One being that I'm not super creative in the patter department. Another being I think we should use magic much like Jesus used parables. To teach an idea or a concept. Do a trick, then talk about how that concept related to the Gospel. (like Jared Hall does a straight Jacket escape, then talks about how that is like trying to escape from sin). And the third biggest reason is that I really feel that when you share the gospel, you should be you. Not Mr. Magician. Because the gospel isn't part of a show, it's real life. I think you will have a much better response from people when you are real with them, as yourself. Nobody wants the canned gospel presentation. As you read through scripture, there is no formula for presenting the gospel (to the dismay of many who think otherwise). It's different each time, for different people.
So don't can a gospel presentation, but rather use your magic to entertain and break down walls, and then let the spirit guide you as to what to say from there.

Hope that helps. A search will bring up a few other topics in this area that are pretty good.

Justin

The truth.

Ian