Controversies in Magic

[lmtdlifetimewrnt]

I have heard a lot of dispute over the right way of magic. Honestly, there is no right way, and there is no wrong way to do magic. the only good way of magic is the way it works for you. I'm starting this thread to see the thoughts others have of Magic and other "touchy" subjects people feel are important. Here's an example of mine:


My idea of Magic

Have you ever done a brain teaser that you just couldn't figure out? Think about the emotions you experienced. If your goal in Magic is to prove you have magic powers to your spectators, you will never achieve your goal. The point of Magic is to entertain, and to push the spectator's mind past its limits, just like the brain teaser.

Question about Exposer:
This may sound stupid at first and I realize the possible amount of controversy that could erupt from this question, but why does everyone hate people who reveal tricks by mistake or on purpose?

First of All, a trick is revealed, big deal... its not like the trick hasn't been revealed before, I mean, How did YOU learn tricks? Its not the end of the world, even if a few people do know the trick there are manymanymany more people out there who don't know it.

Second of All, If you mess up and reveal a small part of a trick, or you come across a person who says they know what you did, it doesn't matter. If you were a good magician you would know not to perform the same trick to that person again. Therefore, If the spectator does find out, its not a big deal, because you will NEVER perform that trick to them again, and you still should have enough tricks in your magic collection to be able to easily keep your spectator entertained.

Finally, if you do ever come across a spectator that knows the trick, don't get mad or afraid, think on your feet, use their "knowledge" against them in the next trick. Make it a part of your act.

I am definitely not saying that the intentional exposer of magic is ok, and I do believe that someone should practice and get used to the cover of tricks to prevent possible exposer, However, everyone encounters these problems, an d there's always a way to deal with it. As long as there is Magic, there will always be magic exposer, It is the way Humans are, and we can not change that. Arguing and Complaining about magic exposer will never make people think twice about exposing magic, so instead of Complaining about it, adapt to it, learn how to handle those situations.

Final thoughts:
I know there are STILL going to be people out there that disagree with me, because they have already burned the idea into there mind that magic exposer is the worst possible thing in the world and will be the cause of the Apocalypse and stuff like that, but its cool. People are entitled to that opinion just as much as I am entitled to mine. However, I have given those kinds of thoughts the opportunity to thrive in my mind, I did think at one time that magic exposer was the end of the world, but soon realized it wasn't. And eventually, my magic improved.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

You took my brain, rescrambled it and shoved it back in quite expertly sir. Well done.

Also... how do you remember that username when you have to sign in?

 

[LuseifHo]

ahhh
not bad
but Ive got a question for you
No wrong way of performing magic huh? how bout... me performing an acr. without a deck of cards. when i sit on a bench and eat a ham sandwich and claim i am performing an acr... how bout that... ahhh....???
haha
but yea
kinda pointless thread i find but oh well

 

[tokyoUW]

I am absolutely convinced that you are a complete moron. Either that, or you have been doing magic for maybe only one day so far, and have not yet had the experience to know any better.

Number 1. People get angry at exposure for various reasons, yet you only touched upon one. One of the primary reasons we get angry at exposure is, it is complete disrespect to the creator of the trick. Not only does it offer people the tricks for free, when others have paid for them, 98% of the exposure videos are done at 10% the quality, yet again, disrespecting the years the original creator put into the development, testing, and recreation of the tricks.

We also get angry because all exposure does is give a free and waitless pass into the magic world, avaible for any joe schmo to pick up. Imagine a guy named John, who goes to see a magic show, and gets amazed at what he sees, so amazed that he cant sleep at night due to the dying need to figure out what has happened. John than learns that all he has to do is search "rising card" on youtube... Little does John know that the magical moment that he whitnessed and enjoyed is about to be erased, and thus, any magical moment he could have enjoyed thus after, will also be diluted. Expsure takes away the magic from OUR audience. If you think this is totally ok, than again, you are a complete idiot, and I wish you leave these forums forever.

NUMBER 2. You pretty much claimed that it is ok for us, as performers to mess up, because we are not going to do the same trick to the same person again.

Why, as a magician, as a performer, would you personally want to deliver a half-a$$ed performance. Now if it is free for the people watching, than whaterver, you win some you lose some... but if those people are paying for the show, and you mess up, and have the mind frame of "Oh, its ok that they know how I did that trick, cuz I just wont do it again" than you are being a complete D%$% to your spectators, and deserve to be kicked out the front door.


Please, dont pretend to be all high and mighty by starting these posts saying crap like, "I know some of you will disagree with me, because you have it burned into your minds that exposure is bad, bla bla bla bla bla," as if you are better than us. Honestly, you are stupid, and from reading this crap, anyone that agrees with you is automatically LOWER than anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Eggnof]

... 0_o (Word Count)

 

[lunatic core]

I don't believe your first point is valid. Only new magicians fight over this like there is only a single way to present our art. I think most vets understand that both paths are acceptable for different types.

 

[praetoritevong]

Hmm... Ok, put it this way. In a nutshell: I agree with the general purpose and idea of your post, but I do like Tokyo disagree with the specific points of magic you've proposed, to the point where I must say that I believe that you are wrong on at least some of them.

 

[steffd]

We've all had audience members that watch to be entertained, and audience members that watch to "figure out the puzzle". The one's trying to figure out the puzzle are the people that watch the programs exposing tricks...and if they really want to know how something is done, they can go to their local library and get a book on magic. The point is, there are a lot of different people (magicians included) out there, and to expect that they are all going to "follow the rules" of magic or audience ettiquette is unrealistic.

I agree with tokyoUW that exposing a trick is disrespectful to the creator, but it's not going to make a program like this go away. We need to be better magicians than that and make sure that what we select and how we perform, is what the audience truly wants...that's my "2 cents"

 

[lmtdlifetimewrnt]

Okay... Tokyo, I don't think you read the rest or something... I NEVER said it was ok to expose magic or mess up.. The first thing I ever learned in magic is the value of a trick, I will never expose a trick to people, HOWEVER, no matter what, Magic exposer ALWAYS will exist, there will always be people out there exposing tricks, and there could come a time in your life where people know what you just did, and you should always be prepared for that possibility. Second of all, I know there was gonna be someone that would say this, so let me clarify, I meant, in a performance, there is a time where you could mess up.. your right, you should always give it your best, and sometimes, your best isn't good enough, and there could come a time where you mess up, no matter how much you practice.
Over all what I was trying to get out was that magic exposer will never end, so complaining does nothing, you actually have to act. You can't end exposer, but you can try to work around it.

 

[Steerpike]

Controversy. Noun. A buffet of self-proclaimed experts making fools of themselves.

Have you ever done a brain teaser that you just couldn't figure out? Think about the emotions you experienced. If your goal in Magic is to prove you have magic powers to your spectators, you will never achieve your goal. The point of Magic is to entertain, and to push the spectator's mind past its limits, just like the brain teaser.

So you believe in presenting a puzzle instead of a mystery?

First of All, a trick is revealed, big deal... its not like the trick hasn't been revealed before, I mean, How did YOU learn tricks? Its not the end of the world, even if a few people do know the trick there are manymanymany more people out there who don't know it.

Exposure is typically done with a malicious intent. However, your last sentence in that paragraph does have some merit.

Arguing and Complaining about magic exposer will never make people think twice about exposing magic, so instead of Complaining about it, adapt to it, learn how to handle those situations.

That's a statement I can get behind it. But remember that you are talking to magicians. People who fancy themselves artists. Most of them would rather complain and receive some kind of validation or secondary pay-off from playing the victim because there's less work involved in that. People always want the easy way out.

People are entitled to that opinion just as much as I am entitled to mine.

People are entitled to opinions, but opinions can still be wrong.

I am absolutely convinced that you are a complete moron. Either that, or you have been doing magic for maybe only one day so far, and have not yet had the experience to know any better.

I once got several hate mails for saying that magicians have no self-control. A new layer of proof has been added to compliment the irony spread on my sandwich of truth.

Don't think too hard about that metaphor, by the way.

Number 1. People get angry at exposure for various reasons, yet you only touched upon one. One of the primary reasons we get angry at exposure is, it is complete disrespect to the creator of the trick. Not only does it offer people the tricks for free, when others have paid for them, 98% of the exposure videos are done at 10% the quality, yet again, disrespecting the years the original creator put into the development, testing, and recreation of the tricks.

While true to a point, I would buy that lack of respect is a bigger issue if you could prove me that there is that great a sense of solidarity among the magic community. I don't believe that there is.

We also get angry because all exposure does is give a free and waitless pass into the magic world, avaible for any joe schmo to pick up. Imagine a guy named John, who goes to see a magic show, and gets amazed at what he sees, so amazed that he cant sleep at night due to the dying need to figure out what has happened. John than learns that all he has to do is search "rising card" on youtube... Little does John know that the magical moment that he whitnessed and enjoyed is about to be erased, and thus, any magical moment he could have enjoyed thus after, will also be diluted.

Again, I'm not entirely convinced that all magicians possess that level of empathy for their audiences.

Why, as a magician, as a performer, would you personally want to deliver a half-a$$ed performance.

He didn't say you'd want to. Take a deep breath... find your center... and try it again.

Please, dont pretend to be all high and mighty by starting these posts saying crap like, "I know some of you will disagree with me, because you have it burned into your minds that exposure is bad, bla bla bla bla bla," as if you are better than us.

Interesting coming from a guy who followed that up with this:

Honestly, you are stupid, and from reading this crap, anyone that agrees with you is automatically LOWER than anyone who disagrees with you.

It's such a chore for me to be smarter than the rest of the human race.

I don't believe your first point is valid. Only new magicians fight over this like there is only a single way to present our art. I think most vets understand that both paths are acceptable for different types.

Some of them, sure. But elitism and separatism do exist in magic.

Magic exposer ALWAYS will exist,

I was trying to hold off on commenting about this because it's kind of a dick move, but the word is "exposure" not "exposer".

 

[Glenn West]

Your comparison to the brain teaser is TERRIBLE.

If you remember the "emotions" you experienced with a teaser you could not figure out, they would include frustration, and eventually feeling stupid when you learn the answer and can't believe you couldn't figure it out.

Magic should never invoke any of these.

 

[Morgan B]

Hmm...so let me get this right? It sounds like you are saying Limitedtimewarranty (to use your full name) that although magic has many issues - the best way to handle them is to realize they don't exist...or they DO...but the best thing is to do and say nothing about it?

Here is the thing - exposure does, and always will exist - however, magic is hurting because of the vast amount of ways exposure is seen. There was a time where learning magic meant something - where information of all kinds can be transferred very easily. The advancement of the internet and technology that allows information to be shared so easily...well, like the exact words I am typing.

Jon Racherbaumer said it well in Jan issue of Genii - Remember when you ogled instead of Googled? He mentions the day that nobody complained about having "too much" information, yet we have arrived at that day.

Magic has changed - from the day where you were happy to get your hands on one trick, to the day you are unhappy if you don't have your hands in all. The only thing that prevents people from doing bad magic now is themselves...scary, because most are not educated enough or have the critical mind to understand these words, let alone NOT do an effect because it is poor.

I digress, the topic of exposure is so serious because of what it is doing to magic. Sure, it is revealing the secret to those that want to do magic, but also those that don't want to do it...serving to make magic JUST a puzzle, where they have not seen the answer. As interesting as the new celebrity sex tape, until seen and it becomes internet fall out.

More seriously, the exposure is usually done by guys that don't own or do the effect well, so it creates a miseducation. Like the story I always tell students about CARDWARP being called the VOODOO card - so much so that when Wesley James noticed a kid doing it...he told the old man to "F" off, that he didn't know what he was talking about. Nice.

Exposure is bad because it acts as a constant reminder that magic is no longer special - that the first rule of magic is DON'T reveal the secret...and we can't even do that. No wonder our craft is not respected.

Whenever the topic of exposure comes up - and someone says - well...whatever, you can't stop it...It saddens me.

Why?

Well, there was once a day where youth thought they could change the world. If you don't think you can speak out against exposure and try to do your part...then the world will never rid of it's pollution, rape, wars, etc. Those things may always exist too - in which case, we have bigger concerns - not the acts themselves, but that people feel they can't make a difference.

Rape exists...it may always exist - but I will speak out against it -
Exposure exists...it may always exist - but I will speak out against it -

You are making a choice for all of us - I don't think ignoring the problem is the solution, or taking it so lightly.

I will end with this - if you want magic to be more than a puzzle, YOU make it that way...but without the secrets to our magic...you are just a funny guy that can do a rubix cube?

Would you rather be seen as a clever guy - or someone that inspires wonder and amazement.

I choose the latter....but then again, I have always been that "one guy"...I am not sure if we are on the same page?

I know Glenn is...I know Steerpike is...any other? Show of hands?

 

[Flyspazz]

Would you rather be seen as a clever guy - or someone that inspires wonder and amazement.

I choose the latter....but then again, I have always been that "one guy"...I am not sure if we are on the same page?

I know Glenn is...I know Steerpike is...any other? Show of hands?

I'm in.

I do see it as a problem but I will say this. None of my performances has ever been effected
by exposure that I know of. I've never had anyone say "I know how you did that I saw
it on youtube" or anything to that nature.

Then again I dont usually perform for the teenage age group and I dont present magic in
a way where the specs are trying to solve something.

 

[sourboarder]

Harry Lorayne

Harry Lorayne said sometime in the 80s i believe that exposure is not a problem because it pushes magicians to create other superior methods to accomplish certain circumstances. Which when the double lift is exposed, there's really only one way to do it. There are different methods, but to a spectator a double lift is a double lift unless u mix it up by doing it one handed.

If a spectator knows a move like the pass and calls me out on it, I pull him off to the side and say, You've already ruined magic for yourself don't ruin it for your friends.

 

[OneCardWonder]

My whole problem with this exposure argument is simple. Respect for the artist that created the trick is the only -real- reason why exposing tricks to people is bad. If you love the effect and use the effect, then not giving the artist the credit for it by just giving it away is absolutely ridiculous, wrong and pointless. But nothing about how I currently learn a magic trick is respecting the ART of Magic in any way. Allow me to explain my view point.

When I first made a foray into magic I was about 15 (11 years ago), and I remember sitting for hours watching someone performing a color change on a TV special until I figured it out on my own, and then figured out a bunch of other tricks, and changing tricks to make them work without set up decks etc.

There was no Youtube back then, at all. There were only the occasional book, (obviously Erdnase etc, but back then you had to -READ- that stuff, not buy a DVD explanation). There was no rapid exchange of magical ideas on instant downloads, or sites like Theory 11 where you could speak to people, or have a 1 on 1 with an artist. Then it took hard work and just watching and thinking to figure out an effect you like, unless you were extremely well connected, or extremely lucky and had a mentor. It took hard hard work even to figure out what the heck was going on, so you would never reveal, because of the personal price in finding the secret. I remember watching card routines and reasoning out what must be the case slowly but surely until I could replicate it. I would never reveal that trick because it took me so long to figure it out. It took dedicated study to achieve it. Now that's just not the case. Now I see a trick that I like, I go on-line and I pay 5 bucks and instantly I have the answer. Sure it still takes a lot of hard work to get the effect to look right and perform it well, but certainly less hard work than sitting for frickin hours trying to figure it out on your own steam.

Now sure I'm respecting the artist by paying for the work, and finding out how the trick is done and practicing it for long enough that when I perform it it's not readily apparent what's happening, but am I respecting the art form of magic? Is the artist by shipping out the secrets so cheaply and so easily? Of course not.

Any Joe Schmo losing sleep over a trick, and if it bothers them that badly will look it up and pay 5 bucks to find out. Then they've ruined magic for themselves as sure as if they looked it up on You Tube. Sure they may have had better tuition, but it hacks me off that people act like magic is some massively inaccessible art form at the moment. It's not. Sure back in the day you could keep a secret secret, but now you can't and don't. Magic is no longer the garner of the stage, or an event. Now it's anyone with some time and a deck of cards. Now it's on the streets and on the internet, and everywhere. It's more accessible now than it ever has been, and more people are performing magic than before. More people are selling effects and secrets and tricks afford ably to the world at large, so that a group of young people can go out and buy an effect and perform it. I have lost count of the number of people I have seen who can smash a clip shift, but struggle to perform a basic fan, or a top change, or a classic pass.

Of course they can't buy tutorials on those for 5 bucks as easily as they can buy a DVD for 20 bucks on the Clip Shift, or any other effect. The price of not having people sit and think and research and do it on their own is that there is a whole generation out there with appalling fundamentals in magic that can't do the basics. (because there was no need to learn.)

I stopped performing magic about 7 years ago due to a crippling hand injury and have only picked up a deck of cards again about 2 months ago, but how things have changed in that time.

What magic is has changed. What is the elaborate secret to a clip shift? Or an Ego Change? Or a Cardini Change? The audience knows full well that they haven't just witnessed real magic. They know there's more than one card in play, and they know that the card has switched or moved somewhere. It looks impressive and creates a 'how the hell did you do that...' or a 'what did I just see' reaction, but they always know that there is some kind of a sleight to it.

My point is, the secret of a magic trick isn't always a method any more, it's a result of hours of practicing a very simple, but often impossible seeming slight. To your average lay person, even knowing how a clip shift is done, may attempt it, and garner a new respect for the person as its ridiculously difficult to do at all.

So yeah, this is a somewhat rambling post, but my point is pretty simple. I don't reveal tricks because I respect the hard work that goes into creating them, and I believe that the person deserves to get paid for that trick. If they aren't performing on stage that often, then where are they going to earn the money for the great effects being created? Of course via the internet through downloads, DVD releases, etc. And they -should- be able to do that. But by the classic definition that -is- Exposure. Now exposure has become, "Don't reveal unless someone pays you for it and its your effect." Well I'm sorry, but that changes the whole game completely.

So is exposure wrong, yes absolutely, but can we say that the tenant, "Never reveal the secret" holds true any more. No. Now it's, "Never reveal the secret unless you get a DVD deal and ask me first, and give me a slice of that, in which case you can."

So yes, I like the fact that magic is popular and a lot of people are doing it, etc etc. There is no excuse for exposing a trick, period. There is no excuse for an awful performance that reveals a trick. (And You Tube is full of those. People that have bought the trick, practiced, suck at it, and stick it on You Tube.) I had already figured out Tivo Transpo 2.0 before I bought the trilogy because of some idiot on you tube screwing it up so badly that it was obvious. That's not intentional exposure, but it's exposure all the same, and it comes from the fact that people can put anything they want anywhere these days and other people will watch it.

The rules are different now. Every DVD release that comes out in a way cheapens the art of magic. I don't disagree with DVD releases coming out, but I'm just making the point that the lofty ideals of never revealing secrets just aren't what they once were, so yeah exposure is wrong, but we cannot judge it as harshly as it once was judged.

 

[tokyoUW]

Ok, so I am going to touch upon something that hasn't been mentioned much. Morgician kinda was leaning towards getting into it a bit, but let me take it a bit further.

Exposure: There is the angle where exposure effects the spectator, and the angle where exposure effects the magician. I don't really care about laymen checking youtube to see how a trick is done... mainly because, when I perform, even if I do a trick they just saw the day before on the net, I do it differently. I present magic, not a recognizable universal trick that all magicians know.

What I get pi$$ed off about, is how exposure creates mediocre magicians. As Morgician mentioned, there was a time when getting your hands on new magic material was quite difficult. You actually had to go down to your local magic shop (yes, they still existed then), and see if they got the new book or VHS (yes...a tape, not DVD) in stock yet. If not in stock, there was maybe one or two online stores trying out the e-commerce angle.

What this meant was, magicians were of a higher standard. Just the mere fact that patience and diligence were needed to get your hands on the material, that patience and diligence carried over when it came to practicing and performing that new material. Now however, with exposure, we get half-a$$ed magicians of a dime a dozen, going out there, performing crap they just learned on youtube, maybe succeeding in technique, but failing miserably in performance.

I would hate to be associated with one of those magicians. Now, even though I live in Japan, and I have never been told, "wow, you do magic like the kids on youtube." or crap like that... as a Magician, I want the standard to be kept high. Magicians used to be few in numbers, but those few in numbers all held a high standard... Now, there are new young magicians popping up everywhere, and only a FEW, those of who understand that Magician is a long and tedious pursuit of perfection (technique and presentation), that still retain a high standard.

What some of us do, used to be special, exposure (although it is not the only cause or reason, but a MAJOR one), is turning Magic into another simple "anyone can do it with a few minutes of practice" type, yo-yo, hopscotch, pokemon card game, hobby.

So, when you say... let's ignore the problem, and try to work around it... The only thing that tells me is, you either don't care that the standard of magic is going down, or that you don't realize the standard of magic has and is still going down.

I pray it is the latter, because that just means you haven't been doing magic long enough to realize that you started in a new generation of magic. Which can be fixed by reading through older books or talking with seasoned magicians.

 

[Steerpike]

What this meant was, magicians were of a higher standard. Just the mere fact that patience and diligence were needed to get your hands on the material, that patience and diligence carried over when it came to practicing and performing that new material. Now however, with exposure, we get half-a$$ed magicians of a dime a dozen, going out there, performing crap they just learned on youtube, maybe succeeding in technique, but failing miserably in performance.

I love how people speak reverently and longingly of the halcyon days of Kellar, Thurston, Herrmann, and Houdini, while ignoring the fact that magicians of that era were also a bunch of thieving jackals ready to slit each other's throats over their secrets. You know, just like they are today.

 

[Lex]

I love how people speak reverently and longingly of the halcyon days of Kellar, Thurston, Herrmann, and Houdini, while ignoring the fact that magicians of that era were also a bunch of thieving jackals ready to slit each other's throats over their secrets. You know, just like they are today.

And let's also not forget that for every Vernon there were dozens of shysters, hucksters, fraudsters, and plain old downright bad magicians who would gladly sell their best-kept secret in return for a warm place to sleep and a slice of apple pie. And even those guys were probably complaining about how "everything was better when Mesmer was around," or something like that.

Did the magicians of the past reveal their secrets? Of course they did. Some did it for money. Some did it in order to teach a new apprentice (who may or may not have continued in the art). Some did it out of ineptitude. Some did it for recognition. Some probably did it specifically to torpedo a rival.

The idea that revealing the secrets of magic is something new is, frankly, a little silly. The only thing that has changed is the medium and speed by which it happens (and honestly--although it is a bit of a longer argument--I don't think that makes a difference anyway).

Assuming, that is, that the "secret" is just the technique of the sleight itself. I think that's actually a bit disputable. The concept of a double lift has been popular knowledge for . . . well, probably since people figured out you could play cards for money. It is hardly a novel concept. Is that "the secret" that gets revealed?

Or is "the secret" more about how to do a double lift undetected? That seems a little more believable to me, and a more closely guarded secret. Also, for obvious reasons, a bad YouTube video cannot teach it: it's tough to learn how to do a double lift undetected by watching a terrible, obvious double lift.

I guess I just don't buy the apocalyptics. "Everything was better when . . . " sentences are usually based on an idealized--and not always accurate or complete--notion of what was going on "back then." "Kids these days . . . " sentences usually pick up on something that has always been true, but is only now troubling the author. In neither case is the world actually ending--it is just made to seem so.

But saying this doesn't mean I like, condone, or support the revelation of tricks and secrets. It's just focusing energy where it seems more useful: on my own magic. Bad things do happen, and I cannot stop them all, but that doesn't mean I am absolved from 1) not doing them myself, and 2) preventing them when it is within my control. But it just doesn't seem useful to curse the darkness rather than just lighting another darn candle.

Now could folks please carry on this discussion without assuming that anyone who disagrees with them is inherently stupid, moronic, facile, feebleminded, moonbrained, lunatic (sorry, _core), brand new to magic, burned out on magic, cynical about magic, bad at magic, apathetic about magic, or actively wanting to destroy magic? Really unhelpful.

 

[Randy]

Magic should not be a puzzle. If you set it up as a puzzle or challenge you will just be setting yourself up for failure. It will end up being less entertaining and people will no longer enjoy seeing your perform. Seriously, it's our jobs to amaze and create wonder in people. You can't do that if you are presenting everything as a puzzle.

Exposure has been around for years before the Masked Magician. I don't see it hurting me, but I don't see it also helping. Wayne Houchin talked about this and said that many professionals are out there performing the very same things that the Masked Magician exposed or that people on youtube expose all the time. Yet they are out there making money. All you have to do is dress up the effect differently than so-so did it on youtube and it will look like something completely different.

 

[Steerpike]

More seriously, the exposure is usually done by guys that don't own or do the effect well, so it creates a miseducation. Like the story I always tell students about CARDWARP being called the VOODOO card - so much so that when Wesley James noticed a kid doing it...he told the old man to "F" off, that he didn't know what he was talking about. Nice.

I missed this paragraph the first time around.

I would say that also has to do with the fact that people under 18 are narcissistic dimwits. No one has their act together before their mid- to late-20's. But they all certainly think they do. And the younger they are, the more violently they'll react to being told they're wrong.

This has its ties to exposure, of course. Though I'm going to wait 24 hours before I expound on that. I want to see how much hate mail I get for my comments today before I throw another log on the fire.