Copyright laws and all that junk...

[LuseifHo]

Hey!
I was wondering when magicians put out new material, whether DVD, Book, or Manuscript, how far does the copyright thing go.
For example, if they want to teach a move from the past, do they need to get an "Okay" from the creator or copyright company, or do they only need to give a visible credit?
So for example, if I wanted to write a book on the 2 Card Monte, but with variations (which im not doing for anyone who thinks I am), do I need to get an okay from the creators of the trick and moves, or do i just need to add: Credits: Mr. Monte Two Cards, or who ever suitable?
thanks

 

[Twozwozer]

Basicly Magician's don't like to copyright their effects because you have to get a patent, and when you patient something you HAVE to publicly explain how your "whatever" works and all that jazz.

Now seeing as magicians don't patent (there are a few though, Pepper's Ghost Illusion is one) we have to be poliet and ask people if we can teach their material. And then of course credit at the end.

Cheers, Tom

 

[LuseifHo]

ah
right
thanks
what if the guy is dead?

 

[TheBlack&WhiteIllusionist]

ah
right
thanks
what if the guy is dead?

Well I don't think anyone's been ringing up Erdnase lately, but i've been wrong about these things before. I'd assume you'd just credit the individual, and if they show up pissed off later, tell them the truth: "I thought you were dead! I assumed you wouldn't mind."

 

[stoneface]

Yea you should always credit when possible, ask premission always.

 

[Ineski]

You should always ask for permission and give credit.

It's funny that you used the "two card monte" as your example, since because of Ellusionist's habbit of not giving credit to anybody, nobody seems to know nowadays who created that trick. How many people here knew that the trick was published and created by Eddie Fechter (around the 1970s) and titled "Be Honest - What Is It?"

 

[cm763]

Legally, you don't have to ask permission OR give credit. The tricks themselves can't even be patented, only the gimmick (if it doesn't use a gimmick, then no luck for you).

However, ethically, it's expected that you ask for permission (if possible). If the person is deceased, then just adding proper credit tends to be appropriate. Same for if the move is a common move--just adding credit tends to be good enough, although putting in the extra effort to actually ask the person (if they're still alive) is a plus. Again, this is just ethically speaking. You don't have to ask permission or give credit, but the magic community at large expects it, so if you don't give proper credit and do all the proper things like that, expect to be black-balled by the magic community, or something, heh.

 

[Brad Henderson]

If you spent 20 years or more of your life developing a trick that you used to put food on your table, and eventually you decided to give back to the magic world by sharing it via publication, how would you like to be treated? What kind of respect would you hope would be paid?

I wonder how "Mr, Monte" as you have dubbed him, would feel knowing that the people who are now benefitting most from the gift he gave to the world of magic have all but erased any memory of him from his creation. What a wonderful way to say 'thank you,' don't you think?

If he were still alive, do you think this treatment would make him more or less willing to share his future ideas?

Maybe someday you will know the pleasure of creating something original and having someone else take it away from you.

Come talk to us then.

Brad Henderson

 

[Randy]

Hey!
I was wondering when magicians put out new material, whether DVD, Book, or Manuscript, how far does the copyright thing go.
For example, if they want to teach a move from the past, do they need to get an "Okay" from the creator or copyright company, or do they only need to give a visible credit?
So for example, if I wanted to write a book on the 2 Card Monte, but with variations (which im not doing for anyone who thinks I am), do I need to get an okay from the creators of the trick and moves, or do i just need to add: Credits: Mr. Monte Two Cards, or who ever suitable?
thanks

You might want to credit Eddie Fetcher and really I can't think of a reason WHY you would want to write a book on the variation if it just uses the same moves has his original routine. "Be Honest, What is it?"

Also a thing to think about is that IF you do get one published... You will most likely be contacted by lots of pro's who will tell you that it's been done before.

Has Lee Asher would say, if you are going to create a new trick, at least put in the effort of doing the research to see if it's been done before. Hell I think Aaron Fisher also said that as well.

 

[James Smith]

Hey!

So for example, if I wanted to write a book on the 2 Card Monte, but with variations (which im not doing for anyone who thinks I am),

You might want to credit Eddie Fetcher and really I can't think of a reason WHY you would want to write a book on the variation if it just uses the same moves has his original routine. "Be Honest, What is it?"

Also a thing to think about is that IF you do get one published... You will most likely be contacted by lots of pro's who will tell you that it's been done before.

Has Lee Asher would say, if you are going to create a new trick, at least put in the effort of doing the research to see if it's been done before. Hell I think Aaron Fisher also said that as well.

He is not writing a book on the two-card monte. It was hypothetical.

 

[Randy]

He is not writing a book on the two-card monte. It was hypothetical.

Doesn't matter, he still needs to do the research to actually see if it's been done before.

 

[LuseifHo]

Im not publishing or creating anything.
The subject just caught my interest as there is all this conflict between companies and what not. Like Magic Maker's Confusion Cards or whatever. I also see different styles of crediting. Some are from the script of the magician in the DVD, some are actually listed out at the end, some are actually noted at the beginning of each trick. Just sort of wondered if there was any rule or law on this. Guess not really.