Daniel Madison

Hello this is just my thoughts on d+M.

Ok I love Daniels work. But it seems to me that he is loosing his UNDERGROUNDNESS like hes becoming to mainstream. Like you say something about BURN or Dangerous and everyone has it, unlike his older PDFs. I liked the way he released his old effects for a while then took them down. And to me his effects have gone down since he became more mainstream. I like his old effects that were made when he was more underground(Outlaw, Bound, Wrath One and Two etc.). So what Iam trying to say is I dont think that the move to T11 was that good for Daniel.

Am I the only person who thinks this?

THOUGHT...


JDEN
 
Jan 11, 2008
22
0
Copenhagen
Well i like his effects even more after watching dangerous.. nice to see him in action.. Despite you i disliked old effects like bound.. but really like the new ones... For me Dangerous is a scoop!
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
He has become more mainstream, but is that really bad for Daniel.

When he became an artist on this site you could link it back to his site. Giving a great amount of free advertising to him. Many people who had never really heard of him could have purchased his PDF's. Outlaw was nice and I still use it to this day but Bound and Wraith were both similar to Sankey effects so Daniel had to take them down. I am sure that when Identity was released if Bound and Wraith were still being sold he would have added them into the booklet but I am not sure.

Also all the material in Dangerous that was on his sites was never really taken down. As it was available in One and Two. As for what is best for Daniel I am pretty sure that more money is a huge step in the right direction. Plus he still has a lot of mystique around him and that CHANGE.
 
Apr 28, 2008
598
0
What's the point of releasing 'underground' material. All that happens is a few people get it who then put it on ebay and sell it for loads. So the people who have the most money get the 'underground' stuff.
That doesn't seem like a good idea for me. I think underground releases are stupid and I hope Daniel's future material is also available to everyone.
 

Deechristopher

theory11 moderator
Moderator
What's the point of releasing 'underground' material. All that happens is a few people get it who then put it on ebay and sell it for loads. So the people who have the most money get the 'underground' stuff.
That doesn't seem like a good idea for me. I think underground releases are stupid and I hope Daniel's future material is also available to everyone.

The REAL underground stuff is often just released to a private audience, or in very low quantities so that the secret is kept inside tighter circles.

For someone with more of a mainstream persona these days lets look at Luke J. He releases a lot of stuff thru penguin and the like, the books that have been distro'd thru murphy's,etc.

Then take a look at Luke's underground releases. Every so often he'll release a PDF at a higher tier price and only sell maybe 50-100 copies... It's only advertised on his secret shop site and then to his myspace friends or whatever.

This keeps the effects in a tighter circle of people, so that when it's performed people probably won't ever have seen it before, even magicians.

Also because of the price and availability issues it's less likely to get picked up by the kids who'll put it all over youtube and those crazy forum sites like was it 'free magic school?' that a few of us had a hand in shutting down, or at lease getting rid of all the bad!

So, to address the thought of Daniel going more mainstream, I don't know to be honest - I can still mention his name to magicians who won't have heard of him, he's only more mainstream in the street/undergroundy niche.

In terms of his material weakening, I don't agree with that at all, I think the new stuff is great and as for dangerous, a lot of that is older material revamped to make it even better!

It still feels underground as far as the material is concerned though - it's very much that raw kinda feel we're all used to from mr. Madison...

Either way, I'll still keep reading his work as I genuinely use some of it during performance and it suits my style very well :)

D.
 
Apr 28, 2008
598
0
The REAL underground stuff is often just released to a private audience, or in very low quantities so that the secret is kept inside tighter circles.

For someone with more of a mainstream persona these days lets look at Luke J. He releases a lot of stuff thru penguin and the like, the books that have been distro'd thru murphy's,etc.

Then take a look at Luke's underground releases. Every so often he'll release a PDF at a higher tier price and only sell maybe 50-100 copies... It's only advertised on his secret shop site and then to his myspace friends or whatever.

This keeps the effects in a tighter circle of people, so that when it's performed people probably won't ever have seen it before, even magicians.

Also because of the price and availability issues it's less likely to get picked up by the kids who'll put it all over youtube and those crazy forum sites like was it 'free magic school?' that a few of us had a hand in shutting down, or at lease getting rid of all the bad!

I'm not that bothered by limited releases, if somebody only wants to release their material to a small group of people that's their choice. It's just annoying when an effect is intentionally made to be 'underground'. I.e. everyone knows about it but only a few copies are released simply to make the price higher.

Well is also appears that no one want to put there tricks on your SHARE thingo. Hey Learn2Amaze my giving me your tricks, so I can exploit them on my site. YAY

This has nothing do to with this thread and is completely unnecessary. Posts like this make you seem very childish and immature.
 

Deechristopher

theory11 moderator
Moderator
If some one wanted to make more cash they'd release in bigger quantities, not smaller quantities with higher prices on a whole. It's alot easier to make cash on a £20 release that sells 10,000 copies with a 50% margin than something selling for a hundred quid at the super low quantities with a bit more mark up...

Also, if you're looking at the ebay prices of these releases, take lethal for instance, minus the few copies r3's put up, the copies of lethal up there were either bought from Daniel at a max of £35 or sent out to friends of his and they're trying to shift them to make cash. It's the 3rd party sellers making cash, not the creators.

People don't make things intentionally underground to raise the prices, Look at things like the higher tier mentalist's tools that cost REAL money... Everyone knows about midas and UFO and stuff... Most underground releases are reasonably priced, if not free to people in the loop.

I'm not entirely sure where you're getting this information from as it's not really the trend in that niche... :s

D.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan 23, 2008
93
0
Leeds, UK
Those in magic just to make money would do better trying to be a pop-star for the sake of being famous.
Only the money chasers play on schemes in the industry, whereas people like D get very far as their hearts are in the right places; they're there to offer help and lessons so that they can reach a platform high enough to push change in the industry (no puns or subliminal advertising intended)
Expressing art is not done for money, otherwise we'd all have a little respect for whores, art is done through creativity and released as effects through the willingness to share, innovate and inspire.
Underground magic is inevitably reaching a stage because of the massive audience that was once small, so it's not the underground that's choosing the limelight, its the people that are dragging it TO the limelight.
Theory11 give the audience what they want and the audience wanted underground magic, so they got D, now they go Andrei and so forth. Underground magic will always be underground magic, but the audience simply cannot remain small.
As for D going mainstream, those who see this as a negative have bluntly failed to understand the reasons. D had so many offers to go mainstream before T11 came along, he's been in the industry for 7 years but always underground. He chose T11 because of their platform, because of their message and intent, their goals and attitude. If it was about money, you'd have seen d+M a long time ago.
If you think an artist is getting worse as they progress, that's simply your opinion which is more than likely swayed by your views on mainstream Vs underground.
And if the sandwich didn't call my brick a donkey, he would have never become a satellite dish for the samaritans.
(don't try to think about it, you're head will explode.)
 
Dec 22, 2007
643
0
daniel madison being underground is like a centipede eating the carcass of a tamed hyena in the heart of the african rainforest.
 
Dec 23, 2007
1,583
4
33
Fredonia, NY
beware the underground, the mole people live down there



also who cares if someone is underground or not, or if a trick is said to be underground. If you see, hear or learn of a trick and you like it, buy it (assuming the price is reasonable) people put to much focus and importance on labels. get back to basics and what brought you into magic. Do it for the love of the hobby and the love of the reactioins and feelings you get when doing or seeing magic
 
I am glad I found out about Daniel. I am not brown nosing at all cause I get nothing out of it. I think he is a Genious. He is a very talented artist and I really dig his concepts and style. He is a artist that is different like nothing I have seen before. I have heard he is a actor just playing a magician. Well he is a great actor if that is true.

His showmanship is top notch. In his vids he connects with people like Blaine does(in D's own way) and I envy that ability.

If he goes underground I just pray I stil have access to his material. Thats how much I enjoy his work.

I have seen "some" of the members here talk negatively of Daniel and then the same members are the first to buy his effects the day they come out and have nothing but good things to say then. I hope he does not get ran off from the board due to the strain of putting up with the non-sense some people say here. I am not pointing fingers and any particular person/member here.
 

webtech

Banned
Jun 14, 2008
72
0
Taken from Daniels Bio.....
At an early age I was influenced by a card cheat who introduced me to some sleights and con-techniques. I spent years developing a wide range of deceptions, from sleight-of-hand to memory training. When I took my skills to the casinos, I was quickly found and banned for life. This led me to back room poker games where I was able to make a short living. Eventually, an exposed cheating technique landed me in a wheelchair for 6-months. Through my recovery magic found me, and the rest is history.

To me this seems to be a bunch of crappolla. Although I enjoy his style very much I think the public is being deceived with this sort of marketing ploy about his persona! Don't believe everything you read boiz!

beware the underground, the mole people live down there

That's hilarious!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 21, 2007
3,146
1
29
Bergen County, NJ, USA
I agree with everything R3man said. I'm sure that Ellusionist or Penguin Magic would LOVE to shoot a video with Madison. (Ellusionist especially with their style...)

Also, Danny is coming out with a DVD soon called Madness. (See the news page of his site. It doesn't say anything about it, it just shows the logo.) According to R3man, he said in another thread (if Madison changes his mind.. please don't call R3man a liar. ;)) he said that this DVD would not be sold to everyone as he wants to go back to his "underground" roots a bit.

I'm kind of hoping that he has some sort of contest that makes people utilize the flourishes in Dangerous to show that we are learning his flourishes so that way when he sells these DVDs to specific people, he will know that they are actually using the flourishes. (So far I have learned Sybil in the Rain, Lethal, Lethal X, and Turnover. ;) I love these flourishes.) That's just my 2 cents.

-Doug
 
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