Do you agree? Question about the Muscle Pass

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by scottbaird, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. I've really given this a lot of thought.

    I perform in the magic shop I work at every day, so I have a great test group of laypeople and magicians that I can try new ideas on.

    I've noticed a peculiar thing regarding the muscle pass.

    I have done "the coin that falls up" billions of times (Thanks Mr. Cornelius!). People see how it's done, or they take a second and work out that you somehow "flick" it up, and yet they're amazed you can do it. They are amazed by your skills, and not because it's magic.

    I have also used it secretly, for transfers and ditches and click passes and the like. They don't even know it exists.

    I don't like performing it openly.

    I don't think it's a good trick by itself.

    Do you guys agree?

    I think it is BETTER used secretly, behind the scenes, purely as a sleight. In my opinion, doing it openly is just giving away one of the most powerful sleights you can use.

    I'm not going to do it as the coin that falls up any more.

    If they know you can launch a coin, they know that you can ditch it by launching it into a pocket somewhere.

    They also are excited by your skill- and then, your chances of getting any reaction of true astonishment or wonder will turn into reactions of "wow, he's good with his hands".

    Do you guys agree? What are your thoughts on this?

  2. scott i agree its much better as a secret move. i don;t like to be flashy or show off my dexterity i think it takes away from the magic. thought if you like the falling up effect it can be done i think without them getting the method. one example i think works well, is sylvester the jester. he says its a training coin and goes "up boy up!" then it goes up .... but the key is this... that he immeditily does somthing else playing with the trained coin idea.

    now you could use anything. maybe just it falls up. and very quickly show them again "at full speed" do a retention pass and it instantly jumps up.

    now the reason for this is the movment of the routine, draws there attention from thinking to hard about the MP to make the coin fall up, and hopfully you have just execute a very convience retention pass and they can't figure how you did it. now by this time you could prolly finish or go into somthing else as i find it to be anti climatic and i would prolly vanish the coin or if props willing a jumbo change, or a idea i had with trained coin split boy split and break the dollar into 4 quarters and end clean. ect ect
  3. I agree with everything you said, this is the same thing with the pass in cards. E has one product out about this, I think it was called the Vegas Card Cheat routine or something rather. Anyways I think it and the muscle pass are the same, using these to show off is a waste. Think about it, you're pretty much showing how the effect works to the spectator
  4. The best I've ever seen this move done is by Akira Fujii. His coins across in person looks stellar.
    Sean, who uses the street name Dante, who performs in New Orleans and Europe probably does the best rendition of the coin that falls up I've seen.
  5. Homer Liwag has fooled me over and over by doing it as a secret move. He never ever uses it as a trick so I forget about him doing it.

    Chris Kenner
  6. i've never liked seeing the coin that falls up as a single effect .. i perfer to see it as part of a routine with a coin going back in time.... for example in some part of a coin routine you let the coin drop from one hand down to the other and procede to do something else with the coin and finish a reveal and to explain you then say that if you could reverse time then perhaps you could change the out come of the effect or that what they saw never happen because it never started and while you say this your reversing your moves and eventually, and on the off beat, do the muscle pass ... but never really focusing all the attention on it.... i like to see it as something that just happens and not a "look at what i can do" type of thing ... if that makes any sense.
  7. Will Homer be contributing any effects to this site? I'd love to see more stuff come from him.
  8. i totally agree with you .I usually using muscle pass for Coin Across Routine(Fujii Akria) ,and a production .
    i have a coin in shoes routine using muscle pass too~
    and joshua barrett said what i want to say about it too.
    do a retention pass is much better than using MP for doing the "coin fall up".
    using the retention pass is much more look like a magic trick than using the MP
  9. as a side note homer is comming out with cointwo.... its my suspision it will be his extroydenarty -ish routine we will soon see tho!
  10. after seeing the muscle pass dvd i just dont think it could be a good routine by itself when noblezada performed it to everyone they seemed interested but not impressed by it.
  11. I agree with everything you said.

    The muscle pass if done well is an ok trick.

    but it is used more as a utility or even a flourish.

    I loved its use in garciad chink ca chink *Is that right?*

    Unfortunatly i have never been able to do it.


  12. i'm not sure about the muscle pass since i can't do it myself, but i've also heard that "yeah, you're just good with your hands" or stuff like that, that's why i use a different amount of flourishing depending on the audience, because there are some people who are really amazed by a couple of flourishes, and then there's others who are like "well, uh, that's just cards". i mean i so much realized that again just recently when i was at my parents and i was practicing my flourishes, and my parents' guests left, so i had to go shake hands and say goodbye but they kept talking on the doorstep and since i had my deck in my hands i did a couple of sybils and madonnas and they didn't even notice although i was right in front of them and they've never seen me and a pack of cards together. ignorants.
    so well, that's what i had to say...
  13. I think you should watch the preview vid of david kong
    think it tells you some stuff about it...

    but the tricks are better when no one knows what you just did.
  14. I like what Chris Kenner has to say about Homer. It's funny, I remember when I got the muscle pass down good and fast, I showed it to my sister and she thought it was cool. I showed it to my brother and he also thought it was cool. Then I stopped using it for a little while, and I picked it back up when I saw it for its power. I grabbed some coins practiced a routine, through the muscle pass in there, and when I was good and ready, I performed it for my sister and her friend, and all of a sudden......

    they didn't know what just happened, they just couldn't figure it out.

    I'll never put it away again.
  15. The muscle pass is something that when you have it down packed, and you cant mess it up, its fun to play with and then you can start with all sorts of vanishes, this is one of my faveorite sleights/passes
  16. careful with the noblezada video he has some advice that i find not so good and others have said the same, like using a slight tossing motion to help it along.... just horriable
  17. Sorry to get a bit off topic, but I would like to ask this from those who know it best: What do you think is the best source for learning the muscle pass? I know the basic concept behind it, but where would I find good information detailing the finer points and how to perfect it? Thanks.

  18. its spread out really, dan watson has a good beginner guide. iv picked up applications from justin miller, coins akira althought that one was a bit crazy heh. charlie justice has a nice pitch with it
  19. If you don't want the muscle pass to be seen then its not really worth the practice because you can just throw the coin from hand to hand.Unless your going to do it in front of them.But you'll have to be able to do a rrally fast one.
  20. card thats not really true, the lack of hand motion to propel the coin has huge advantages and a big pay off, its late and im not gonna go in to detail but others have done is slick work with it.

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