Does the Creator Matter?

Nov 20, 2007
4,434
6
Sydney, Australia
Hey guys, I don't post here often but I do hang around, here's a thought...

Do flourishes created by a generally well-known and well-regarded flourisher, say Chris Hestnes or Allan Hagen, automatically get rated well? In practical terms, does it affect perceptions, and make it more likely for an ordinary person like myself to rate that creation higher?

In posting this, I am not taking anything away from the aforementioned two, who are certainly brilliant for a good reason. However, if I posted a tutorial for a new flourish I created today, and then say, Dan & Dave included the same flourish in one of their DVD's say three years into the future, after people had long forgotten my video, would I receive the same level of acclaim that they would?

Regardless of the actual quality of the flourish (assuming of course that it wasn't total rubbish, and was a decent flourish), I should think that the latter would receive far less criticism than I would for any flaws in the move.

Just a thought or two,

Peace.
 
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I think when people watch I move created by a well known person, they automatically assume it will be a good one, and so it doesn't matter if the move is revolutionary, just as long as it lives up to their usual standards, it will be deemed a great flourish compared to if someone relatively unknown made the cut it will be seen as average.
That didn't make sense did it? :(
 

timsilva

Elite Member
Nov 18, 2007
404
43
California
timsilva.com
Credibility and reputation can go a long, long way with that sort of thing. This isn't limited to magic, but anything that requires creativity. If something comes from a reliable, trusted, and respected creator, then it is automatically regarded as something of the highest quality. So to answer your question, yes. If D&D released the same that flourish that an unknown person made, it would be way more like and looked at as a good move. But, in all fairness, that is simply how popularity works. That is how the world works. For smaller people to become famous like the Bucks, it takes years of experimenting and creating. They also have an indescribably large list of original effects, that helps in so many ways that it is ridiculous. Think of all the one-time effects and flourishes people release. They are forgotten about in a matter of days.

Oh well, its a tough world :p
 
It depends, the reason the better know flourishers out there are "assumed" good, is because they are good, they have shown that their flourishes are good in the past, so we do go into things assuming it will be good. If anything I'd say however that makes us a little harsher than we normally would be.

Regardless, the difference could also be the delivery of the flourish, if the video you put out was a choppy webcam windows movie maker project, compared to a HD widescreen professionally Edited DBSquared production, then most people would forget about your flourish quite quickly.

I have seen hundreads of cuts on decknique and around, and I remember very few, even those by some of the "bigger names" in the community, because they just weren't that special. If your flourish is memorable, it will probably help you become one of the more well known among us.
 
Sep 5, 2007
270
0
Decatur, GA
There definitely is something to be said for reputation and credibility. You can see it in the arts all the time especially with painting. I was walking through a museum and I came across a series of paintings by Picasso. Now I'm a big fan of Picasso's work (yes all of it) however the technical proficiency of this series was that of a child's fingerpainting. If I had painted that series and presented it to a gallery they would have laughed in my face. Now I know that there is alot more to those paintings than just what you see at first glimps (the creative period in Picasso's life, the subject matter, the style etc...) but someone who doesn't know anything about art history might think they are crap... until they find out Picasso did them... then it's brilliant. So yeah I think in some ways it matters more who you are than what you can do.
Cheers!

p.s. Please keep in mind this is an opinion and is in no way meant to belittle any creative genius.
 
While I don't like the thought of being mentioned as a "highly regarded flourisher", when, in fact, I hardly ever practice, and never had a passion for flourishes, I do to a certain extent agree with the abovementioned.

The only reason I tutorialize some of my "material" is because I'd like to share fun little ideas or variations that I've come up with, and that I enjoy doing. Other people share them because they're badass revolutionary concepts. I don't have any of those, and neither will I.

I think ultimately, production quality and a big name have certain influence, but if your flourish is deemed to be utter bollocks, then obviously they shouldn't.

Meh. I don't really care. I just want to make films. Cards were always a sort of B-hobby to me.

Allan.
 
Feb 28, 2008
356
6
It's just a thing of name / brand recognition. Of course the well known person doing or teaching the same flourish will get more acclaim.

Compare it to music actually... right now, Coldplay's new single is getting big, but they are being sued by this little band from New York that Chris Martin saw a year ago and apparently stole (or maybe subconciously borrowed) the melody of the new song.

It's hard to earn a reputation and with that reputation you should earn a bit of respect. Once people trust you, they will more likely want to see what you've done.
 
Short answer... nope.

No audience member is going to care who created what their seeing. That's all that should matter. If people wanted to keep **** underground they wouldn't show it to other magician/manipulators like dumbasses. Otherwise they shouldn't be complaining about the whole thing. The only thing people use so-called "creative/new" material is just to hype up their own name so they deserve to get that **** stolen and used without permission/copyright/bull****.
 
Short answer... nope.

No audience member is going to care who created what their seeing. That's all that should matter. If people wanted to keep **** underground they wouldn't show it to other magician/manipulators like dumbasses. Otherwise they shouldn't be complaining about the whole thing. The only thing people use so-called "creative/new" material is just to hype up their own name so they deserve to get that **** stolen and used without permission/copyright/bull****.
Finally someone said it. The audience don't care about the creator of the move just if it impresses them. Same
 
Short answer... nope.

No audience member is going to care who created what their seeing. That's all that should matter. If people wanted to keep **** underground they wouldn't show it to other magician/manipulators like dumbasses. Otherwise they shouldn't be complaining about the whole thing. The only thing people use so-called "creative/new" material is just to hype up their own name so they deserve to get that **** stolen and used without permission/copyright/bull****.

You da man :p
 
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