Double turnover get ready

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by EricShoff, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. so lately I've been paranoid about my get ready for the double turnover. I usually use a pinky count into the dai Vernon push off lift.

    First, I've realized that you need a fairly large break to transfer to the ring finger in order to do the push off, if you know the Vernon lift you'll know what I'm talking about.

    while I've never been caught, I can't help but wonder how many people have seen the break or pinky count and not just said anything. But then again, in darryls ambitious card routine he uses a thumb count right in front of people's faces to count off two cards for the snap double. So perhaps it's ok to do. Obviously I misdirect when possible, sometimes people burn the hands no matter what though, and others there's not much time to misdirect during an ambitious card.

    So just looking for the wisdom of so,e of you have been in magic for a while. Have you ever been caught counting for a get ready to a double lift? How important are three concerns?

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!
    Single Malt likes this.
  2. Denis Behr said: "Professionals don´t take risks, they take a break."
    I guess that answers your question :)
    leumas1960 likes this.
  3. Well I agree, I suppose the question is more how do I get the break without people noticing. Is a thumb count sufficient despite the audience can clearly see you counting cards with the thumb?
  4. Thumb count is certainly inferior to the pinky count. I think you can get away with a thumb count if you do it silently and quick while the right hand alreay covers that corner. But picking up a card from above at the outer left corner also seems kind of unnatural to me. But I did it that way when I started out anyway (might have picked it up from Darryl?). Now I´m convinced that flipping a card over or picking it up from the right edge of the deck is more natural and the pinky count is way more subtle an undetectable. Generally you should aim to get the break as early as possible and not right before the double lift.
    AmberGraci likes this.
  5. I do a snap double when I do the thumb count, a la Darryl. In the ambitious card sometimes there just isn't time to get a break well ahead of time. Even the pinky count can be spotted usually, though obviously much less than the thumb count. Unless,you're so good at it that the cards literally hardly move, which I am getting to that point
  6. I'd say keep working on the pinky count, otherwise you could try a strike double.
    Prof_Utonium likes this.
  7. So can I do a pinky count if the spectators are burning my hands? I can do it without any visible tension in my hands but you can still see the cards slightly popping up in the back. Not sure if that's a tell. I've never been caught, or at least never had anyone say anything, but I'd like to tie up any loose ends of possible.
  8. Honestly, even if they see that, it seems like a pretty insignificant action for the laymen. And you should be able distract them just by talking to them and looking them in the eyes. You could also let the deck drop down by your side as an enforcer that this time is not important, and execute the move then.
    Mr.Book likes this.
  9. A sleight needs to be committed to muscle memory, so I commend your commitment to getting the move down perfect. I worked in a magic shop for many years. I saw everything from extraordinary to horrible sleight of hand. I have been performing my version of the ambitious card routine for 12+ years. In my opinion, when performing for laymen, no double lift method is better than the other, so long as you master it fully. That being said, it is more difficult to perfect but, getting a one handed break is less suspicious (i.e. pinky count).
    The company I am currently consulting just put a double lift video in this blog, (geared to beginners but worth checking out): coincidence? never heard of one. Hope this helped, good luck with future endeavors!
  10. Great replies all around, and thanks for the blog link on the double. Cheers
    Single Malt likes this.
  11. I honestly have been doing a thumb count for as long as I have been doing magic. Which is about 14 years. I have only once or twice been "caught" if you want to call it that. Its simple why it can work. I do it so much I don't think about it. I don't bring attention to the cards till I am already flipping the cards over. I also thumb count as I turn over, this is kind of knacky but once its down it looks very fair and know one cares.

    I also do the Master push off, which requires no break and once mastered (I am not there yet) It is the best in my opinion for a standard and no questions asked double push off.
  12. I think you are refering to the Double Pushoff method described in Vernon Chronicles and Carneycopia. It's also teached by David Williamson in Ridiculous. I use it myself and you can take a minimal break before. When you go into the pushoff, you have to widen it a bit. You can simply hide it by a small tilt of the left hand, which also looks natural in the action. You're audience also shouldn't have all the attention on the deck during your initial action. Watch how David does it. He uses several methods of getting a break (Pinky Count, pushoff, Houdin) which depends on the situation.
  13. The next time someone is burning the deck, start moving it around :) They watch it like a cat watches a lazer pointer!

    In my experience they laugh and then (maybe not even noticing it) stop looking at the deck as much :p
    PS also use the line "my eyes are up here" It always gets a few chuckles
  14. What do you mean you thumb count as you turnover? I've seen Darrells ambitious card and he counts right in front of people and they seem not to mind, I guess they don't really know what's happening
  15. I mean that I have been doing it for so long that I no longer "get ready" with a thumb count. Thus as I execute the double turnover I'm already ready as the lift happens. There is a small discrepancy that if someone were standing in the right position and glaring at my hands they might notice it. Otherwise it's to small a frame of time for anyone to think anything past, that's how he flips over the card. Really I feel that's the goal to get your audience to see, that's how you flip a card over, it's simple, unobtrusive, and quick. So nothing to raise a question. That's why as a sleight of hand move it's the most important one to do well. Because everyone flips cards over. People don't always know how to shuffle people don't always know the names of the cards but everyone can flip a card. Hope that makes sense

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