Erdnase Question(s!)

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by YenmanMAP, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. I have been doing magic for 9 months now, and I have yet to acquire a working pass. I am tight on money, so buying more instructional material is not an option. My library has Erdnase, and I have been attempting to learn the one handed shift and its variations. I can do it, but I don't know how to use it.
    Is it done fast or slow? Does the ring finger extend or stay bent? Does the ring finger end between the packets? Is the close gravity powered or muscle powered? What are the angles? How do you get into position without exposing the break? How do you get the break? How do you eliminate the noise in the two handed variation? SO MANY QUESTIONS.

    Any help on using this move in a performing environment?
  2. My advice would be simple. Use a different pass. That is, if you are using this as your first one for use in performance
    deff go with another one too start.
  3. If you ask me, you should use a different control. 9 Months in magic is short. Erdnase is a really advanced book and the descriptions are hard to understand. Use other controls when you perform and practice it on the side if you really like it. It is all preference. It is also harder to learn a move and get corrections over the internet. lots of people will tell you lots of things. who can you really trust?

    good luck
  4. Thanks for your sugestions, I already do that. When I need to control a card to the top I use the James-Ellis Loading move. Simple, airtight and angle free. Or the Wow Controll when angles permit. And I have a nice double undercut or sometimes I use a Tectonic Verb to control the card to the top. But I have no pass. I want to learn this one cause it is cool, but I don't want to learn it and not use it.
  5. Well I suppose there are a lot of passes, so I would yes, suggest trying something else until you get this. A pass isn't really required in card magic, not needed but can help a lot. I use the turnover pass the most, but a regular two handed pass is pretty alright as well.

    I think as far as the misdirection on any pass, it takes heavier misdirection when you are first learning I think. As you practice you will find ways to make it more invisible, but at first it may take more cover and such. I have bigger hands and can cover pretty nice from the top so that helps, but yes just keep practice until it becomes invisible for the angles you want. I usually just do it when I need to and don't care or worry too much about it, if you have been doing false cuts and wierd stuff with the deck anyways, they won't even know what you just did or what happened.
  6. If you want some help, do a search on the magic cafe and check out their gambling spot. That will be of more help to you than any poster here :)

  7. I've been into magic for a year and a half and I don't have a pass. The one thing that you must understand about the pass is that it is not (not!) necessary in card magic. It's one of those things that's nice to have, but that's all. There are PLENTY of other ways to control cards that are more beginner friendly, less angle sensitive, allow specs to be staring at your hands and are easier to do than the pass.

    My control of choice is Lee Asher's Losing Control. Imagine a pass...with no motion of the deck whatsoever. It's in the middle one second, it's on the top the next. Can be done surrounded and it about as easy as a double undercut and as convincing as a pass. The spectator can be burning your hands, too. I absolutely love it.
  8. Take the advice offered here. You simply do not need a pass!

    How's your top change? You want to work on something, work on that. Can you handle a double convincingly in a natural way? I'm not talking about turning over a double, I'm talking about handling a double away from the deck. For that matter, are you 100% happy with your injog shuffle? How about your palming? The Elmsley count? Flushtration Display? Christ Twist?

    The small sample of techniques I just mentioned are far, far more important than the pass if you want to be a decent card magican.

    For the record, one of the best things you can do pass-wise is practise the classic pass over and over and over and over until you feel pretty happy with the mechanics of it. Then, start to look at the variations on the classic pass (top card cover pass, riffle pass, dribble pass etc.) until you find one that looks good in your hands. Wesley James' book "Enchantments" has a whole chapter on the pass and it's well worth a read. In addition you get a whole bunch of other information to go along with it.
  9. I appreciate the encouragement to learn something else, but as I previously stated, I have plenty of practical moves at my disposal, and I continue to work on them.

    That said the one-handed shift is really cool. Is there anyone who can help me with it?

    Oh, and thanks for the tip Sticky.
  10. I'm sorry that I am unable to help you with the one-handed shift, but I would like to point out Phantom Notebooks, and his blog where he goes through many moves of Erdnase and the likes. For those who know, he's really incredible with those moves, maybe you can shout out to him on his blog and ask for tips:

    - harapan. magic!
  11. just use a double undercut until you get more used to cards, or classic pass
  12. i recently stumbled upon this guy and he totally rocks man... he is a hardcore erdnase lover and the quality of his work shows that he REALLY has absorbed erdnase.... he reinspired me to study erdnase well.... he is a god send...

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