Fournier 605 Deck Review (Lee Asher Series)

[eostresh]

The Fournier 605s (Lee Asher Signature Series)
Well I just got these cards and thought I would give you all a review. Since there is no convenient “sticky” to guide me down the path of a card review I will strike off on my own here and try to cover all the bases.

Price: $10:99 per deck or $98.88 per dozen
Where to buy: http://www.leeasher.com/store/playing_c ... brown.html

Initial Impression: When I first pulled them out of the box I was struck by the smooth surface of the cards. The cards that are locally produced (Korea) have a similar finish, are made entirely of plastic, and are AWFUL! So I was initially concerned that I had wasted a lot of money. That impression was completely dispelled not long after playing with these cards. These cards do have a plastic coating but they are not plastic cards. After about 20 minutes of fiddling with them I began to see why Lee Asher had chosen these cards for his signature series.

The Look: This one is too subjective to get a rating so I’ll just give you my thoughts as well as an idea of what you will find inside. I love the look of these. In my opinion they are by far the most unique cards on the market right now. I enjoy the look of the Bikes as well as the Ghost, Black Tiger, Propaganda, etc. however there is only so much you can do with black white and grey. The colors are subdued green and brown and the design harkens back to a time when card players and magicians went to the tables wearing tuxedos. The court cards, like the back design, have an old world feel to the artwork. There is no heavy metal or glam rock flash in this design. This one looks dignified and classy.

Card construction: As I said in the intro these will feel decidedly different then a bike right out of the box. Bike use an air glide principle (the dimples you feel on the backs and faces) where as the Fournier decks are smooth to the touch. The marketing description mentions they use a thicker stock. I assumed this meant it would be a thicker card but this was not the case. There is a thick card stock sandwiched between to thin pieces of paper that are coated in plastic. When all is put together the Fournier deck is a few cards thicker than a standard Bicycle deck but a few cards thinner than a Bike Masters ed and the other UV500 decks. This may be of interest to those with smaller hands. The length and width is the same as any poker sized playing card. The cards are individually cut from the press giving the cards perfectly rounded corners. This also perfectly aligns the artwork so in theory you could cut two cards in half and line it up perfectly with one and other (this will be of use for people who make their own Gaffs).

Durability: Durability will factor in over time as I edit this post in the future. See the appendix for a better understanding of how to interpret this.

Handling:

Fanning: This is perhaps the Fournier weakest attribute. They tend to fan a little blockier, and a little less even than a standard Bike. This should be taken with this in mind. I have always used my fan more for card selections and displaying a shuffled deck (practical applications) as opposed to a flourish. As such I tend to do a no frills one handed fan and never bothered to properly learn a pressure fan. Therefore if you are good with fanning you may better adapt to how these handle. One thing I did notice is that stronger pressure on these cards improves the fan.
Out of the box: 6
2 weeks: 8
3 weeks: 7
1 month: 8

2+Card Obfuscations: (Hiding 2 or more cards as one as in DL, Fluke moves, etc.) These cards hold together in a group nicely. I can see why the inventor of the Diving Board Double liked them so much. In addition the smooth finish makes it a little harder to detect if you were to pull a slightly misaligned double.
Out of the box: 9
2 weeks:8.8
3 weeks: 8.5
1 month: 8.8

Spring Moves: If you like snapping your cards for productions or springing cards this is the deck for you. They spring so sharp and nicely you may have to adjust your technique to keep from having them go flying on the floor or worse yet….imbedded in the eyes of your spectator! Ninjas could use them as throwing stars!
Out of the box: 9.8
2 weeks: 9.5
3 weeks: 9.0
1 month: 9.0


Dribbles: It will take more hand strength to dribble these cards but when achieved these seem to dribble singly and not in clumps. I’ll give this an 8.5. If you have strong hands slide this rating up and if you have weaker hands slide this scale down.
Out of the box: 8.5
2 weeks: 9
3 weeks: 8.5
1 month: 9


Crimp hold and recovery: The cards crimp nicely and retain their shape until you remove the crimp. After removing a crimp it is near impossible to find any damage done.
Out of the box: 9.5
2 weeks: 9.5
3 weeks: 9.0
1 month: 9.0

Single card glides: This one is hard to evaluate. As mentioned with both fanning and 2+obfuscations the cards seem to hold together well, however for certain single card moves (Erdnase changes and similar moves) they glide free from one and other quite nicely. For other single card moves (Venus and other similar moves) the sticking properties seem to come out. I’m no physicist so don’t ask me why that is.
Out of the box: 8
2 weeks: 9
3 weeks:8.5
1 month: 9

continued

 

[eostresh]

XCM cuts: What is good for an XCM deck varies depending on the specific style you tend to follow. Read the handling categories to get a better feel for how they might perform for your style. As a general thought these cards fit my style quite nicely. The only move I’ll have trouble with is the Anaconda dribble (a move that requires strong hands even with a standard bike deck). If you do XCM and have smaller hands these might be a better choice than thicker decks like the Bike UV 500s.

Card splitting and Gaff construction/availability: There are no Gaffs commercially available for the Fournier cards. That said if the gaff cards you are after are in the realm of passive applications here are a few thoughts. The cards split similar to a standard bike but you will need to be more careful. As I said in the construction section the outer paper is thinner and the card stock is thicker. Thus it takes a bit longer to cleanly spit these cards. You will need to do this if you need a double backer. You can use a standard bike double facer if you want. Keep this in mind if you do. You will notice the difference in the cards (Bike have dimples and these don’t) but your spectators likely won’t see or notice this. The ace of spades and court cards are distinct enough that you wouldn’t want to use any of these for a gaff however the font type and size is close enough that all other cards will be ok when displayed together. Finally, because of differing glide characteristics the double backed bikes will likely be more prominent in a spread. (I.e. the fan will block out near the DB cards)

Who should not buy?: These are an expensive deck of cards and have a stiffer, springier action in the handling. I would not recommend them for beginner card workers or people with weak hands. Some of the benefits of these cards may even be lost on intermediates. I would not recommend purchasing these until you can appreciate the handling differences between standard Bicycles and Bicycles made with the UV500. People who rely heavily on Gaff cards but are not skilled, or patient, enough to make their own may also want to avoid these.

Who should buy these?: Advanced and Intermediate card workers who are looking for a cards that are made to perform complex sleights. Also if you are looking for some cards that have a style distinct from the standard red and blues common in most American cards and you don’t want to feel pressured by your cards to get nipple piercing and tattoos, then these cards are for you. If you think of the Bee’s, Talley Ho’s, and Bike UV500s as muscle cars then it is fitting that a European manufacturer made the Ferrari of playing cards. You pay for what you get and Ferrari’s aren’t cheap. If you want to just try one out you will pay over $10 for a pack. I strongly recommend you buy a brick for $100. This brings the price down to a more reasonable $8.00 a pack.

Final Thoughts: The more I mess around with these the more I appreciate them. They truly are a work of art both visually and in performance. Pictures can’t do these cards the justice they deserve. You really need to pick them up, look at them close, see the light catch on the finish, feel how they move, and watch them in performance to appreciate these beauties. They are certainly not without their flaws and performance quirks but they are about as close to the perfect deck of cards that you can get.



Appendix A: Durability is an important component of evaluating a card but cards seem to age differently from one and other. Because of that I will give a rating 1-10 under each of the card handling categories and come back to edit this post after 2 weeks (The average life span of a standard Bicycle deck in my hands) 1 month (the average lifespan of a Bicycle UV500 finish deck in my hands) and after 2 months (If its’ still useable). To give you an idea of how I use (and abuse) cards it might be helpful to know a bit about me. I have very few formal practice sessions (perhaps only 1-2 hours a week) but I tend to practice while watching TV, waiting for a bus, sitting through boring lectures, and other similar moments throughout the day. In total I estimate I get around 12 – 15 hours a week of practice. My style is a mix of Hard and Soft techniques. Much of my pass work and go to sleights are relatively easy on cards but I use techniques like the Diving Board DL, Aaron Fisher popout, and a couple of false in the hands shuffles that tend to bend and snap cards. I also enjoy some XCM cuts and flourishes (not that these damage cards per say but my cards have a tendency to fall on the floor a bit)


**I used the Bicycle Air Cushion deck(standard Bike deck) as a base line for all grades. Assume that on this grading system a deck of plain old bikes would grade a 7 in all categories.**

 

[eostresh]

Two Week Update:

This update is coming in a few days early and here is why. I noticed after the first week that I loved the way these cards handled so much that I was practicing a lot more! So for the second week I started recording how many hours of practice I put in and I'll start posting updates after every 24 - 30 hours.

Overall thoughts: These cards will likely be well worth the extra money you pay for most advanced card workers. They have a way of "breaking in" with more use. Not that all cards don't "break in" to some extent but usually they start to lose their "Snap" quickly as this process begins. After two weeks of heavy use, for me anyway, these cards are performing better than new!

Fanning: Fanning actually improved quite a bit. I was surprised by that. Still not as smooth as a brand new bike UV500 but definitely good enough to hold its own.

2+card Obfuscations: I dinged this just a tad. The cards hold as one just as well as O.O.B. but as the edges collect dirt minor misalignment are a bit more noticeable. It is still less noticeable than a Bike with dirty edges.

Spring Moves: Again I dinged this just a tad. I actually pulled out several cards from a new deck and several from the test deck, blindfolded myself, and tried to distinguish how they snapped. I couldn't tell blindfolded....But I dinged it anyways because they don't "seem" to snap quite as high. Likely it's all just psychological but it was only a .3 so don't be to concerned.

Dribbles: I improved this a bit. As they age these cards get easier to handle(or my hands are getting stronger working with these?) while still dribbling singly and not in clumps.

Crimp Hold and Recovery: The exact same. Don't know what the stock is made of but it seems to retain it's characteristics quite well.

Single Card Glides: This is another one that improved. Two handed glide moves are still just as easy as before and one handed glide moves seem to pull free without "grabbing" a second card as they did O.O.B.

Final thoughts: Definitely a deck of cards that gets better with age. I was told to expect these cards to collect dirt quicker than a USPC card might. When they do you can simply wash off the cards with a damp towel and they will return to their original condition. Pretty amazing quality if you think about it! I have not had to attempt this technique yet and I have not noticed them picking up dirt any quicker than my bike decks. If it does start happening and I try that technique I'll be sure and let you know how it works.

 

[eostresh]

Fournier 3 week update:

Okay here is the official three week update. Just finished practicing all my test moves with a new standard Bike, Bike Masters edition, a new Fournier, and my practice deck that I have been using for this review. Here is what I found

Fanning: I dropped this back by one. I noticed that it was starting to fan out a bit blocky most likely due to dirt.

2+ card obfuscations: came down a bit. The cards still hold well together but with dirty edges a good close look can detect two cards. It still won't effect your magic since it is usually moments between pulling a fancy double and squaring the pack. A double with this three week old pack is still less likely to accidentally split apart accidentally than the new Bike 808.

Spring: I dropped it a bit. Sadly nothing lasts forever....on the bright side they still spring as high as a brand new Bike UV 500. Try matching that performance with any other three week old deck!

Dribble: Again a minor drop in performance. This time I noticed a few more "clumps" but nothing more than a couple cards at once.

Crimp Hold and Recovery: This dropped a bit but it wasn't due to the crimping of the card itself but the fact that other cards throughout the deck develop their own bumps scrapes and bruises. The stock is of such fine quality that you could, if you were patient enough, individually straighten out every single card in the pack. If a card gets a minor bend it isn't something that can't be straightened out even after three weeks. Never the less, with the other minor flaws that develop in a deck of cards there will be little gaps that you can see when on edge. We are talking microns on this deck but it is still enough to warrant downgrading this category.

Single Card Glides: another minor drop. Some of the "grabby" characteristics have come back in the one handed card glides. No change in the two handed card glides.

A few general thoughts. Most of the performance drops could be attributable to dirt. I had mentioned that you can supposedly clean these cards. I hadn't originally planned for a three week update so I promise to try this out before next week. Who knows it might breath some life back in the deck....Not that it doesn't seem to have plenty of life left in it!

 

[eostresh]

Final Analysis: Fournier 605s

Okay I have been working on this for a month and I decided that should be enough to convince anyone yes or no on this deck so this will be the last time I compare my test deck with a new Fournier, Bike UV 500, and Bike Air Cushion. I may come back and let you know when I toss the deck but no more # ratings and keeping track of the hours of use.

On the day of the last test I "washed" my deck. The process was pretty easy, first get a damp cloth and wring it out good! The plastic coating covers the backs and faces but not the edges so moisture from a wet cloth could still seep in the edges. Also get a dry cloth. Next, wipe down the face and back with the damp cloth. Quickly wipe off the face and back with a dry cloth to minimize any moisture that might seep in the edges. Set the card aside to finish drying. If you did this correctly the card should be fully dry by the time you have the next one cleaned so you can casually toss the next one on top. Repeat this 52 times. I said it was easy not quick! It was kind of a pain in the a$$! It took me maybe 30-40 minutes to get all 52 cards cleaned but following are the results....

Fanning: Increased! +1
2+ Obfuscations: Increased! +1
Spring moves: No Change
Dribble: Increased +.5
Crimp Hold/Recovery: No Change
Single Card Glides: Increased +.5

So as you can see the ability to clean these cards is a big bonus. Four out of the six move classifications are at least partially dependant upon the finish of the card and when the finish is dirty the handling is effected. After cleaning these cards the deck started to handle like it did on the two week review which, if you check back to the comparisons, was when this deck seemed to perform at an optimum level.

Final thoughts and recommendations:
First I will address the bad. Price! Whoa! $11.00 for a deck of cards? Can't avoid it. That will definitely deter many from the Fournier decks. If you add it up(price + durability) you will get more bang for your buck with Bike 808s...even UV500s. Fanning...even once broken in they never fanned as well as a Bicycle. Stiffness, anyone starting out in card magic or who has naturally weak hands will find it difficult to manipulate these cards.

Now that that is over with let me tell you what I really think.....Drum roll please.................These are the best G*% D$@! deck of cards I have ever had the pleasure to hold! A month old deck of cards just out performed a brand new deck of 808s and performs as well as a brand new deck of UV500s? That's nuts when you think about it. Whew! Now that that's done let me calm myself a bit and give you the specifics.

There will always be some people who prefer quality over quantity. Obviously I'm one of those and if you are two start saving your cash because you will want to get some of these. Personally I buy my cards by the brick and that gives me some advantages that individual deck buyers might not have. First off all I paid about $8.30 / deck. Second, because these are such a durable deck I don't have to worry too much about signed card effects. If I choose to retire this deck I have 52 replacement cards ready to go. That's a good supply of signed card effects for an amature. Even pros might be lured into the Fourniers if they prefer more dynamic moves in their routine. Even if they do 52 signed card effects in a week that is $8.50 to add to a performers expense account that likely includes travel expenses that will make this a drop in the bucket. For me I will draw the line at effects that cause the destruction of two or more cards, such as French Kiss.

For people into Gaff cards again the Fourniers are at a disadvantage. But, as said before, I recommend this for experienced card handlers. Most of those card guys have experimented with card splitting and the construction of home made gaffs shouldn't be a big issue. You obviously won't be able to make active Gaffs, like Skull Kings or fading Queens, but any passive gaff is reproducible with a little time, energy, and care. I'm happy to say that I am still performing some of my favorite gaffed card effects.

Even if signed card or gaff card effects scare you away from these consider them as a high quality, long lasting, practice deck. A UV500 deck, which I admit last me three weeks to a month, do not perform at their optimum level for more than a week in my hands. After a month of working with these cards I have cleaned them up and they are back to performing at their optimum level. Here is a peculiar anecdote that might illustrate this point. Over the last week I have noticed that when I pull a double with this deck I can be very free when I flip it over. No need to immediately square it up with the rest of the pack. Pull a double, flip it casually with one finger, let it fall where it wants. I can even shake it a bit and the cards hold together! How is this possible? It's magic...black magic

Finally a note of thanks to the man who discovered these for the rest of us. You have to hand it to a guy with enough class and self confidence to produce a signature series of cards that isn't a walking advertisement. There is a signature on the box and one on the Ace of Spades but the card backs are clean, symmetrical, and elegant with no subtle or overt advertisements. It is also about time that someone made a deck that wasn't red, blue, black, or white. It is a unique deck and when you pick it up you will appreciate that it is not about hype or advertising. It is just about a card magician who traveled the world and found what he considered to be the best deck in the world and decided to share it with the rest of us.

In conclusion, if you are still hesitating....GOOD! More for the rest of us

 

[praetoritevong]

Holy crap. That's a massive review. Well done

My only complaint that for a company that prides itself on strict quality control... My borders were off! Only very slightly... And barely noticeably, and less noticeable than an average deck of Bikes, and only because I'm obsessive compulsive...

But it's only a gripe because they did make quality a selling point; otherwise, I wouldn't be fussed at all.

 

[eostresh]

Holy crap. That's a massive review. Well done

My only complaint that for a company that prides itself on strict quality control... My borders were off! Only very slightly... And barely noticeably, and less noticeable than an average deck of Bikes, and only because I'm obsessive compulsive...

But it's only a gripe because they did make quality a selling point; otherwise, I wouldn't be fussed at all.

Wow...really? I guess it happens to the best of them from time to time but that was one of the details that I was most impressed with. I bought a brick and so far every pack has been perfectly aligned....but for $11.00 I think you have a right to expect that and gripe when it isn't so!

 

[LeeAsher]

My only complaint that for a company that prides itself on strict quality control... My borders were off! Only very slightly... And barely noticeably, and less noticeable than an average deck of Bikes, and only because I'm obsessive compulsive...

Praetoritevong,

Crazy! Sorry to hear that. Send that deck back to me and I'll swap it out for a brand new perfect one. I want you to be 110% satisfied with LeeAsher.com as well as the Fournier 605s.

Here's the addy to send it to:

Lee Asher
c/o Grand Illusions
7704 Fair Oaks Blvd.
Carmichael, California 95608-1706
USA

The reason I say crazy is because I've never seen a misaligned/off-register Fournier card before. Yours will go in my personal collection.

Thanks in advance.

Asher
.
.
.

 

[praetoritevong]

Hey Lee,

I really appreciate the offer, but I'll be honest - whilst I say complaint, I use that term liberally and it really doesn't bother me at all, it was just something I noticed. Rest assured that I have the highest respect for you and your shop. However - whilst I don't have a good camera, I'll try and scan it on the University scanner next week (I'm done with classes this week) and send you an image! I just measured it, and it's approximately 1/64 inches longer on one end that on the other (rough conversion from millimetres).

I'll send you an email early next week, Lee.

~Guang

 

[eostresh]

Praetoritevong,

Crazy! Sorry to hear that. Send that deck back to me and I'll swap it out for a brand new perfect one. I want you to be 110% satisfied with LeeAsher.com as well as the Fournier 605s.

Here's the addy to send it to:

Lee Asher
c/o Grand Illusions
7704 Fair Oaks Blvd.
Carmichael, California 95608-1706
USA

The reason I say crazy is because I've never seen a misaligned/off-register Fournier card before. Yours will go in my personal collection.

Thanks in advance.

Asher
.
.
.

Here is another reason I think they are worth the money!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I so want some of these in green. Will probably have to wait until the holidays, though.

 

[popchris3]

Man, once again, I LOVE your reviews. Keep them coming, PLEASE!

Anyway, I have yet to try these, but they sound AMAZING. I can't wait to pick one of these up when I get the dough.

 

[eostresh]

Man, once again, I LOVE your reviews. Keep them coming, PLEASE!

Anyway, I have yet to try these, but they sound AMAZING. I can't wait to pick one of these up when I get the dough.

Though I ended the actual review after one month I continued to use them quite heavily for a month after that Then they had some moderate use for another month and some light use for still another month before I finally retired that original deck. No deck of cards I have ever used has come close to the longevity of these. It may seem like a steep price to pay for one deck but I expect you will make your money back in the long run. With about 10 in depth longevity reviews under my belt I would still recommend these over any other deck for intermediate to advanced magicians who like stiffer flexing decks.

 

[eostresh]

Here is a comic a friend of mine made....enjoy....

 

[ChrisWiens]

What´s the difference between the 605´s and the 505´s ?

 

[Haunter]

Here is a comic a friend of mine made....enjoy....

View attachment 3988

Man those Skull Explosions look DOPE!

Also, yeah these cards look super ritzy. Better put those on my 'wait til I get my money right' list.

 

[eostresh]

What´s the difference between the 605´s and the 505´s ?

Sorry for the late response here, I can't answer from personal experience as 505s are harder to come by where I am at. From my understanding it is less in the stock and finish and more in the quality control down the line. It might be akin to the difference you will feel in one of the T11 bee decks(Stingers and Erdnase) vs. the standard Bee Club Special. The stocks and finishes may feel very similar but edges will be smoother, boarders will be perfectly aligned, ect.

 

[AlvinMaker]

Just wanted to say, thanks in part to your review, I decided to order a deck of the brown 605s... And my first impressions are quite positive.

The "feel" is definitely different, but I am adjusting. I do mostly card magic, and these REALLY lend themselves to some elegant handling. (as a reference point, my favorite "feeling" deck is the Shadow Masters, and these blow those away. (ESPECIALLY in the "DL"/sleight department. I find these feel "thicker", while being NOTICEABLY thinner!) OTHER than I find they are not fanning quite right...but again, I am into sleights/magic, NOT fourishing, so this is a non-issue for me... I will break them in for a few days of heavy practice before passing final judgement on that aspect)

SO- thanks SO much for taking the time to do such an IN DEPTH review! Much repect!

 

[ChrisWiens]

Sorry for the late response here, I can't answer from personal experience as 505s are harder to come by where I am at. From my understanding it is less in the stock and finish and more in the quality control down the line. It might be akin to the difference you will feel in one of the T11 bee decks(Stingers and Erdnase) vs. the standard Bee Club Special. The stocks and finishes may feel very similar but edges will be smoother, boarders will be perfectly aligned, ect.

Thanks! I have some 505 decks, it´s easy to get them here in europe. They´re great cards and I prefer them over bicycles for most sleights (they faro great and with precision).
They last longer (in good condition) than any other cards I´ve ever used. Just spreading or fanning them is awful (the only drawback apart from the small supply of gaff cards).
I asked because the price difference between 605 and 505 is HUGE. I can get nearly 3 decks (ok 2.75 to be exact) of 505s for the price of one pack of 605s.
Quality-control alone cannot justify this.
The quality of the 505s is great. Never had a pack printed off-center and the edges are precisely cut (funnily, Fournier (and USPCC) is part of the Jarden Corp.).
There must be another noticable difference (or they are just ridiculously overpriced).

Maybe anyone can make an objective,independent and honest comparison ?

EDIT: I forgot, the 505 card case isn´t my cup of tea. It´s flimsy and gets easily broken.

 

[Zenn_Darkfire]

Here is a comic a friend of mine made....enjoy....

View attachment 3988

What a great comic!