Gambling type routine

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by B. Nikolay, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Hi gents. New to this forum, apologize in advance for posting in a wrong place if so..

    Looking for magicians review on my video. Any feedback is appreciated.

  2. BNikolay thanks for sharing! I enjoyed the flow of the performance. Your technique looks great. I only have two small critiques. 1st- even out the flow of your push throughs. 2nd-(this might just be a personal thing but...) Learn a tabled riffle faro. It will keep everything looking normal.

    Again, I think the video is awesome! You have great skill, the critiques are only to keep moving forward in that skill. We all have room to improve.

    Mr_ARPY and B. Nikolay like this.
  3. Thanks a lot for your feedback and kind review.

    1) Yeah, you are right. I’m still feeling push through is not exactly right, there is certainly some room for improvement. :)

    2) That's actually a sort of tabled faro - interlaced stuck. I’m doing interlaced tabled faro in two ways - this one, one of them.
    The point is dead cutting 26x26 I believe is undependable technic, quite difficult (or even impossible) to get 100% of a time.
    That's why it looks like in the hand faro.

    I would share my 2nd video, at the end you might see another version of the tabled faro that i performs.
    Will appreciate your feedback as well. =)
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  4. Edit: Looking back on it, this got really long, sorry about that. Thank you for reading it all!

    Hi there, first of all welcome to the forum! It's great of you to share your work!
    While not strictly speaking a magician (aspiring card mechanic), I'd still like to give my 2p on the matter. Please, take everything I write with a grain of salt, as I haven't been doing card sleights very long (not even a year).

    First off, let me just say that I really liked your videos. There are, however, a few points of criticism (I'll do my best to make it constructive) I'd like to make:
    1. On the tricks: I personally quite enjoyed them, though more because of the technique than the tricks themselves. One thing about the first one (production of the hearts): I really liked what you did there (not sure whether naming the technique would count as revealing the trick), and they were quite well executed as well. However, revealing that the whole deck is in order afterwards more or less tells everybody what you did and how you did it. Of course, it is important to show it for the follow-up trick, but I personally think this isn't the best way of doing it (maybe perform a few tricks in between when doing it in performance?).
    On the follow-up trick (the faros): This trick feels a little long-winded, as 8 (?) faro shuffles do take quite some time to do. You found a way around that by showing the poker hands, but I think that people who aren't well versed in poker or just play it occasionally would be confused by that (example: me). Also, as the restoration of deck order is more or less simply mathematics, even laymen could think of the explanation to the trick*.

    2. The techniques:
    2.1. False shuffles: First off, I really like your false cuts. They seem very natural and it's very hard to keep track of the individual packets. Your Zarrow shuffle looks really convincing from this angle, though to really judge this well a different angle would be good.
    Your push-through shuffles are a my biggest point of criticism on this matter: Try to do the push-through action a little quicker and a little more as one action. Right now it looks a lot like this: You interlace the two packets; you push them together until the packet are (nearly) square -- and then you push them even further. The way I see it there are two main points in a push-through shuffle where people might see it: The point where you seperate the two halves, though this can be taken care of with enough speed, and a the point where the push-through action happens, as here the hands often move differently than when doing a normal shuffle.
    As I said, if one knows what to look for, this doubled action of pushing the halves together is a tell. My tip would be: Do a few true shuffles. See exactly how you do them and then try to make your false shuffle look like that.
    You might want to try the strip-out shuffle as an alternative, as the same principles are at work here but without the push-through.
    2.2. Wow. I really, really like those deals, especially the Greek and Centre deal (I still haven't been able to do those). Your bottom deal looks solid to me, though it is pretty loud and you still have some finger flash (though that can be mostly get rid of with lots of practice). (By the way, do you do a strike bottom deal?) Also, one thing I noticed, your index finger sort of spasms when you do the bottom deal. I'd work on fixing that as well.
    Just a general word I'd like to say on your deals: You seem to have been influenced by Daniel Madison on quite a few things. One of those things is the tendency to imitate a golf swing, as I've heard it be called, when dealing (this is of course exaggerated; I have the highest respect for Mr Madison, as he introduced me to a lot of useful principle). I'd try to lose that. A little bit of swinging while dealing is normal, especially when sailing the cards, but I'd try to keep it to a minimum; it just looks more natural.

    This whole review sounds very negative, so let me just emphasize again that, on the whole, I really liked the videos. It's just easier to find individual points of criticism than to find individual points of praise.

    Thank you for reading through all this rambling.
    Really nice work, and thank you for sharing!

    *Once, when showing a false shuffle to a friend of mine, he thought I was doing just this: Simply shuffling the deck until it is back in order. So yes, I do think laymen could think of this.
    B. Nikolay and Mr_ARPY like this.
  5. The 2nd video looks great. I really enjoyed the music. What is it?

    I absolutely love the first style of shuffle. It looks so relaxed, nonchalant, like you really don't care what happens to the cards.

    The stud second looked the best of all the deals. It was very smooth, not rushed. Excellent!

    You do a good job with the video production, sound, framing of the moves and pace of the routine. I hope you continue to make more videos!

    Curious, what is your overall goal? Is it to entertain or to have the most deceptive moves? If to have the most deceptive moves you will need to work on noise discipline on the bottoms. I think there are things you can do to improve in that area. The center deal......mmmmm……..let's just say it was too perfect and I will leave it at that.

    Back to the tabled riffle faro-your limitations are what you make them. You have some very nice moves and have clearly put in time and hard work into practicing them.(How long have you been into gambling moves?) I believe if the tabled riffle faro was something you really wanted you could make it happen. Your current skills are a testament to this!

    B. Nikolay likes this.
  6. Now you say it, and having watched it again, I feel a little stupid about my own "review" (I'll just blame the late hour, shall I? :D). Though even so, I still don't know what he did or how he did it.
    B. Nikolay likes this.
  7. Wow… first of all thanks for taking your time on that, really appreciate any critics or opinions, that may help to improve the things.
    Showed this trick to a number of people, some of them are poker players, no one ever have an idea on how it works. I don’t really think that the lay person could find mathematical principals of the faro, if they are not aware of it.

    Even card players - not learning how to shuffle the cards, or how it works.. They learning the game principals and psychology, instead of it.

    There is also one more principal that I believe exists. If the trick and the presentation is good and people taking a good time, nobody cares on a method. )

    I would have to work on it.. for the moment push through is biggest concern )

    Would you recommend any particular source?

    It looks and sounds better with half or two thirds of the deck. As usual even the top professionals are trying to avoid dealing with a full deck. I took that risk for the sequence construction purposes.

    That is strike bottom with no pre-setting action.

    I saw some of Daniel Madison stuff. I’m not a big fan of his work, but he have some good ideas.

    I’ve been really influenced by Jason England. Any of his material is gold - probably the best source to learn advanced card technics.

    Thanks :)
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  8. This is the soundtrack of Da Vinci code by hans zimmer. Chevaliers de Sangreal.

    Thanks. :)

    Well.. I’m not professional magician for a moment. I still need to practice some things and in a few years it may become something more serious than a hobby.

    The problem is, I personally prefer the most difficult and gambling moves and people likes «pulling card from the ear» visual effects =)

    Also the card magic is not so popular in my country )

    Let’s say for the last three years I’m doing some serious practice. I had experience with a cards before but not so intense.
    JacobJ2 and Mr_ARPY like this.
  9. In the example I gave my friend was in a situation where he could think a long time about what happened (in fact I encouraged him to) and he knew from the beginning that the order of the deck would be restored. Both these criteria aren't given in your trick, so you're probably right, most laymen won't think of that.

    That's true, of course. However, you need to be an extremely good performer if nobody will care about that. The good thing is: I believe that many people will say "How did he do that?", but hardly anybody will actually think about how you did it for some time.

    Of course, but I would recommend you to practice with the complete deck as well, simply because there are times where you have to do it with a complete deck. Also, it will help you become better overall.
    I practiced the strike bottom deal for some time as well, but the problem with that one is that it makes a lot of noise. When doing it I noticed that it makes the extraction of the card a little easier as well as quieter if you kind of press upwards and inwards with your index finger to buckle and loosen the bottom card, but even so, it's very loud. At the moment I practice different kinds of push-off bottoms, because I think that the push-off action can be made to be pretty much invisible and it's of course more silent.

    I learned it from Daniel Madison's "How To Cheat At Cards" (now "How To Cheat At Poker"), which you can download relatively cheap at his website if you want to look into it, but I've got to admit, I don't know many books or videos at all. I'm sure you could find another, maybe even better explanation of the technique elsewhere, but that's where I learned it.

    About Daniel Madison and Jason England, I agree for the most part. While I'm glad I had DM's book to start with, as I learned a lot of principles and ideas from him, I hardly use any of the particular techniques any more.
    Jason England is a really good card-handler and teacher, but there are some things he says where I'm glad that I had a different perspective on it as well.

    That's quite possibly true, but I think that will change quite soon when Steve Forte publishes his book. I have nothing but the highest respect for Mr England's work, but from everything I've seen Mr Forte is probably the best at anything gambling related alive today. Keep on the look-out for his book!

    Oh, I can relate with that. That's exactly the "problem" I'm having as well.
    B. Nikolay and Mr_ARPY like this.
  10. One of the first and most detailed sources for that can be found in the works of Dai Vernon. I’m sure it was taught in the Vernon trilogy!!(inner, more inner, further inner + ultimate secrets of card magic), but I can’t exactly remember which one. I think it was mentioned in “More inner secrets of card magic”. And I think the original handling of the triumph in “Stars of Magic” used a strip out technique as well.
    Also, Mr England’s work on the Push through is a good place to learn from. If you don’t own it, I would highly suggest buying it.
    For more info on strip out and push through shuffles, I suggest checking the references in
    Here’s the section for the push through:
    And here’s the strip out:

    P.S. Your work and handling is pretty nice and elegant, btw.
    JacobJ2 and B. Nikolay like this.
  11. Thanks for the completion, my friend :)
    And from the Conjuring Archives section it seems to be more inner secrets.
    Mr_ARPY likes this.
  12. Yeah, apparently so.
  13. Bill Malone describes it well in his lecture on penguin. If you are likeable person and have connection with the audience, who cares what the method is..

    As a magicians, sometimes we exaggerate what lay person could find on our work. I think by an large they don’t care at all.

    Well.. there is a lot of capable card handlers, but for teaching purposes I believe he is second to none.

    Don’t wait to much, Mr. Forte might be the best card man ever lived, but as usual his materials not really teaching the slights.
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  14. I think, I've even seen this version of triumph performed by Mr. England on his at the table lecture.
    Have it already.
    Thx )
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  15. Actually, as he mentions in his lecture, he does it exactly as described in the book, but uses a Zarrow shuffle instead of a strip out.
    I think the only video reference for that move is in Damian Nieman’s Fast Company. Even though, that’s a different one compared to Vernon’s technique.
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  16. I believe he performs both versions.
    And if I'm not missing a point Darwin Ortiz also showed strip out version on penguin.
    JacobJ2 likes this.
  17. Bill Malone is the best example you could have taken. When watching him perform I don't care at all what he does, I just enjoy.

    This one will be. There's a thread over at the Magic Café Forums where Mr England talks about it as well.
  18. Here's an excerpt from another thread about this book:
    "Steve Forte will be releasing a book in the course of the year. This has been confirmed by Jason England (on The Magic Café forums, in case anybody wants to see for him-/herself), who was present at three of the photo shoots for the photos illustrating the moves. This will in fact be a book to teach the techniques; Jason England has stated that the techniques taught do not overlap with moves shown in other books/DVDs by Steve Forte.
    He has also claimed that the material is "what you would get out of a 10 hour session with Steve Forte." (paraphrased)
    The book will have more than 1000 pages (so it'll come as two smaller books) and will be illustrated by over 1400 pictures.
    The only snag: It'll probably cost around $300."

    And here's the Magic Café thread:
    Really looking forward to this!
    B. Nikolay likes this.
  19. Must have then))

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