How come majority of cardists don't use Ellusionist decks for flourishing?

Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by Spinkicker, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Whenever I watch cardistry videos on YouTube or something like that I always see cardists with theory11,dan and dave, or just standard decks. Why is it that most cardists don't use ellusionist decks?

  2. As a cardist, this video makes me want to be disassociated with Ellusionist.
    Also, they don't really sell cardistry moves/projects on their website.
  3. Oh so that's why. I first thought that it was because their cards were too slippery to handle. The videos also made me a little mad because he doesn't know the meaning of cardistry and just talks crap about it.
  4. This is not the only reason why it is not considered "mainstream" to use Ellusionist cards. This video just angers me to watch. I think a better reason is that other cards (Tally's, Virts etc.) have superior handling.
  5. That video is terrifying.
  6. About the Ellusionist decks:
    I believe that the Ellusionist decks are made from a thicker stock and, from what I have heard, are harder to handle. Makes a bit more sense to me as Ellusionist is virtually an all magic website.

    The video:
    Oi vey, the video is just making fun of cardistry. To an extent, it's ignorant, but it DOES touch on (albeit a very shallow explanation) of what is wrong with cardistry.

    I'll delve into it further.

    Last year, CaseyRudd pointed out that cardistry has plateaued. This is why cardistry is getting made fun of. Nothing interesting or innovative has come out that has really rocked or changed the cardistry community in a few years. The CLOSEST thing to something different being done was the winner of the Magic + Cardistry contest last year. It DID do something different than all the other entries that year. That's why it won.

    The thing that lacks in cardistry, which the video points out, is 'headless torsos playing crazy music and doing elaborate flourishes.' I can't exactly say the video is wrong there because, even as a newbie to cardistry, that's what MOST cardistry videos look like.
    To further that, there is no plot, no story, no message, and no meaning to virtually every cardistry routine. It's really just elaborate flourishes and display of dexterity.
    While I agree that flourishing, to an extent, is best utilized in magic routines because of the lack of plot or meaning; that doesn't mean that cardistry can't be improved upon as a whole.

    CaseyRudd has said that there is a lack in personalization in cardistry.

    I have a couple ideas and one of them is that cardistry needs to slow down. I think, on a very ignorant level, cardistry (currently) is about doing 60 flourishes a minute. There's a lot of great ideas and talent out there with incredible dexterity and speed; but I think it needs to slow down to start going in a different direction; a more graceful presentation.
  7. Cardistry hasn't necessarily plateaued in terms of popularity, as The Virts just had their video go viral and the first ever 'real' CardistryCon is happening very shortly. It has plateaued in the sense of originality, like you mentioned. Almost every Cardistry video I see is being done with the same deck of cards, just because some of the 'big guys' used it in a few videos. It was okay at first, but now it's to the point where it's the only deck I see about 80% of the time. It gets boring. Same can be said about certain genres of music. One of the 'big guys' started using dubstep and rap music heavily, and now almost every video uses that genre of music. As of now there are a lot of people who would rather follow the trend instead of try something different and be original.

    As I've said before, Cardistry videos need to be more personal. Show your face. Tell a story. Bring something new to the table instead of follow the cookie-cutter formula that's been rinsed and repeated countless amounts of times. One way to be original is to create your own moves. You can draw inspiration from various sources, but try to make Cardistry moves with the mindset of 'this is a great move I truly enjoy practicing' rather than 'this is a move I can get a lot of people to buy'. Other ways to be original: use a different genre of music that you enjoy, the filming and editing style, location, and the story/message you want your audience to receive after viewing your video, etc.

    It comes down to this: What do you want to try and say? That you can do some cool moves with a deck of cards to a backing track? It's been done before. Try saying something else.

    That's where I'll leave it. Would be interesting to hear other perspectives.

  8. this post from Franky might interest you, Casey,
    In my opinion Franky is a leader when it comes to what youre talking about. Trying to take cardistry to the next level, make it a more mainstream thing. Making it better than it is now, further improving our artform
    Casey Rudd likes this.
  9. IMHO, Franky isn't so much of a leader as he is a marketer. Same with Fontaine Cards.
  10. I actually like a few of the E decks, especially the Artifice series. Their cards are very thick and snappy, and they handle smoothly right out of the box. They tend to last a long time too! My only issue with them is the design. Most of their decks are really effect heavy with shadows, gradients and grunge, and the box's are noting like what T11 puts out. Madison decks are an exception, but they are just decks with his logo all over them. I think every cardist should give E decks a try though. If nothing else they are great practice decks!
  11. Yeah, I don't want to throw off this whole forum, but I use Madison Rounders for cardistry all the time ^_^ I have nothing against E or their decks. I even made a cardistry video using an E deck. I almost feel like that the reason that most cardists use the same decks is that Cardistry attracts a differnt crowd. That's all I got :D
  12. Beg to differ friend, Franky's one of the most passionate cardists I've ever come across. Fontaine Cards also deserves some credit for keeping the community excited, something that both Theory 11 and Ellusionist are currently failing at.

    The increase of commercialism and the lack of stylistic distinction between cardists is something that will begin to fade as the community reaches a healthier state of communication. Things will be fine once we start bouncing off eachother again, even competing with one another. Franky talks about establishing an infrastructure for cardists that want to make a living off messing with playing cards. Groups like the Virts, Dealers Grip and Fontaine Cards are doing the community a huge service by keeping the fire going during a time of a decline in interest. Cardistry Con is a testament to those efforts, it shows the progress the community has made since the days we relied on magician websites to grow. Those efforts are more than "marketing".
  13. That's all fine and dandy, but you can't deny there's not a lust for market share going on here. Passion or no passion, it doesn't matter. For example, Fontaines aren't well designed, but they're popular. (Also, there's a difference between what people like and good design.) I only wish these entities were more humble––more focussed on the audience instead of the product.
  14. That video just pissed me off.
  15. can you pls repost the link as i can't view the video.
  16. I believe that Ellusionist has taken the video down. Sorry :(
  17. I am using the Artifice and Infinity alot.
  18. what did it show ?

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