How do you know when you're an amateur or professional act?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Wordsmith, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. Me and my friend (randomwrath) were discussing how you know if you're professional or amatuer or just a beginner. how do you know when you're no longer a beginner. I think we're both fairly advanced magicians, but it's not the kind of thing you like to say outloud incase you're wrong. Is there any kind of scale? eg. if you can do Tivo 2.0 easily you're amatuer, if you can do 3 different deck vanishes your expert etc. Obviously anything like this could be rubbish cos a beginner could learn 3 deck vanishes but be unable to do a double lift etc.
    I guess if you're getting paid for your magic you're a pro cos it's your profession right?
  2. I always thought that when you get paided, you are a professional. dont take my word for it. As for a beginer, would be someone who can only do a couple of tricks, advanced, someone who has fairly advanced knowlage of the art. Who has practised the sleights to make them perfect.

  3. Ok here is my answer
    Its probably going to piss some people off but I have to say it.
    You know you are a professional when you are as good as Brian Tudor.
    If you can do Brian Tudor's Hypnotic I would consider you almost a professional.
    You would have to do it as fast and as clean as he does.
    Doing Brian Tudor's Show Off Routine would make you a Pro in everyones mind
    If you can perfectly execute a what the Hell Happened To syble Two
    then you can do any other flourish out there.

    What David Stone said is that an amateur performs many tricks to the same people?
    and a professional performs the same tricks to different people?
    Something like that.
  4. Wow, until this day I have never heard that you have to be as good as one single person to be a professional. I just can't even begin to comprehend the level of denseness that was used in that comment.

    Brian Tudor is not THE PROFESSIONAL

    DO NOT use him as your measuring stick.
  5. Don't worry, he's just the world's biggest fanatic. The rest of us around here ignore his Tudorness
  6. Well, I would think that the generally accepted definition of 'professional' would be that you 'make your living' off of what you are doing (i.e. it is your job). So, when you begin to work magic as your main job and support yourself soley on those funds, I would think that you would be considered a 'professional'. Being good/skill level doesn't necessarily mean that you are a professional magician. There are many excellent magicians out that do not perform magic for a living (and that will admit that they are not professional magicians despite their high skill level). Being able to do a certain number of tricks would have nothing to do with being professional or amateur.

  7. Dude stop it with this Tudor ****.
    And stop
    writing like
    this, you
    dont have
    to start a new
    line every time you end a sentence.

    Monark I agree with you. If it provides income then your a pro.

  8. Lol, I laughed out loud at the first 3 sentences. I've been almost sure this was satirical for a while, but now i'm convinced.
  9. "An amateur knows a billion moves, yet a proffesional knows only a few devastating moves" I watch T11 videos especially the one that says "Begginers start here" vid.
  10. Ok here is my view on what a professional is. A professional is someone who makes money from performing. He does not necessarily have to be a phenomenal sleight of hand artist or even have a high skill level. He just has to make money from it. And I must disagree with the point made saying that you are a professional if magic is the ONLY source of income. If you do magic and get paid for it you are a pro.

    Hypothetically speaking, What if I was making 60,000 a year doing magic and lets say 40,000 grand running a business? Would that make me not a pro because I have another source of income? You know that alot of pros do not do perform EVERY day. What if in between those days that I am not performing I work part-time does that not make me a pro, or would I have to quit my part-time job which doesn't affect my magic performance schedule at all?

    What I am trying to say is that you can be a pro if you make money doing other stuff too. But you can't be a pro if your NOT making money doing magic. YOu can be at pro-level (whatever that is) but not really a pro. Its just like sports there are many atheletes who are not pros that can compete with the pros.
  11. Professional makes his/her living out of magic. An amateur does not. Even if paid sometimes, the person is still an amateur.
  12. OK, that is a valid point. I guess I should rephrase and say that if magic is your "primary" source of income, or rivals your primary source of income, then I would consider you a professional magician.

    You say "If you do magic and get paid for it you are a pro.". I would disagree with this slightly. If you are performing, and someone tips you, that doesn't necessarily make you a professional. Taking it one set farther, even if you have a gig doing restaurant magic a couple times a week in the evening, I still wouldn't consider that professional. True, you are getting paid for doing the 'job', but it still isn't your primary source of income. I'm in a band that gigs on the weekends, and I hold a regular job through the week. I would consider myself a marketing professional, who has a side job playing music. Now, if I performed music 5 nights a week, and that was my primary source of income, I would call myself a professional musician.

  13. Amatuer - No pay/Small payments/Some busking etc
    Semi Professional - Pay but not the only source of income (Not enough to make a living)
    Professional - Earning a living from Magic.
  14. I'm inclined to agree. I'm still torn between considering him a fanboy or a satirist who just doesn't know when it's time to retire a joke. But with that statement, the latter is gaining more ground.

    To answer the question at hand, you know you're a professional when you can quit your dayjob because your income is stable enough and clients want you to perform for them again.
  15. i dont think that being a pro has much to do with your tricks at all. People really dont understand the importance of presentation. I just got back from the beach and i saw a magic show while i was down there. The magician did a lot of simple well known tricks (professors nightmare, the one where the bottles appear and disappear from the cylinders (forgot the name), but the show was excellent his presentation was great very funny worked well with the show.

    I could train someone in a matter of maybe 2 months to do every trick in his act. But i guarantee that person would bomb on stage. To really get to the next level you need to 1) master the tricks you want in your set so that you NEVER mess them up. 2) have great presentation. Be able to interact with your spectators dont just rattle off memorized patter and corny jokes you read along with trick explanation. You have to connect with your audience on a deeper level and that just cant be done with memorized patter.

    there really isnt a gage for this but there isnt much need for one. you will know when you are ready to get out and perform for paying clients, and you should never stop practicing or learning.

    Just my thoughts on the matter.
  16. when you dont do a trick until you can do it with your eyes closed
  17. To the guy that questioned if Tudor Is the Pro
    Yes Because he meets the criteria D.P said,.
    And He even said "As you Probably Know Im Brian Tudor, Im a Professional Magician...."
  18. BrianationX, I just want to point out that if someone says he or she is pro, doesn't make them a pro. Just for the record. I'm not going to comment on nothing else you have said.

    Personally, I think being good at what you do makes you an amateur, being great at it and making some sort of living off of it is a pro. That's what I think... I think this leaves enough broadness for other statements to be filling in with others like "performance skill" and "actual sleight" and etc.

  19. dude giv it up with the brian tudor s***
    your not a professional if your as good as one specific person. and i'll be amazed if you ever do a post/thread that dosent have anything to do with brian tudor..or one that acctually has a point.
  20. No
    You are wrong
    IF you are as good as a Pro then you are a Pro
    is obvious
    Tudor is a Pro
    If you do what he does then you are a Pro Too
    is that simple

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