How to stop magic piracy?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Josh Burch, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. So I noticed something, I was comparing 2 You Tube Channels, Calen Morelli's and a magician who is famous for teaching other peoples magic. I compared the subscriber numbers and Calen, who has lots of activity on You Tube has thousands of subscribers the other guy who always rips off others has hundreds of thousands.

    I looked at Stuart Edge's account, he used to reveal secrets from time to time but has cleaned up his account since. His videos are now some of the most popular on You Tube along with clips of of David Blaine's special and inevitably the suggested other videos always include a few of this persons videos.

    I am tired of the excuses, internet exposure is rampant and we have to take a stand against it. For some reason people think that standing by idle will help and that anything that we do cannot affect it, this is wrong.

    My three step program to fighting internet exposure:

    1. Report exposure when possible directly to the magic creator.

    This can be difficult but it can help for two reasons.

    If the video is a direct copyright infringement (Actual DVD footage, music or photos) You Tube requires a dispute by the actual copyright holder. In most cases they ask for an official email address. I helped remove some of Papercrane's videos this way. This took about a week working with You Tube and Papercrane Productions.

    Alternatively, the creator could always contact the maker of the video. I did this with a couple of my Wire downloads and within a day they were gone.

    2. Cloud up the system with fake tutorials and deceptive language.

    Fake tutorials are one of the most clever ways to hide magic secrets. On my You Tube channel they are my most popular videos with thousands of views. Theory11 has capitolized on these and if you search certain of their effects you'll be sure to pull up a thousand fake tutorials. Check out Rob Anderson for some very funny "tutorials"

    Deceptive language has been used to great avail by Ellusionist, Theory11, Criss Angel and others mainly in web series. These entities use magic buzzwords words like "Revealed", "Expose" and "Revelations" as web series. So if you search "Ellusionist Revelations" you get Daniel Madison and Ellusionist news.

    You can use this language in your own videos in the description and the tags if not the title.

    3. Become a hacker

    I'm kidding. Sometimes I wish I could take control of certain accounts though and just start deleting their videos. This is highly illegal and I don't advocate it but it would be a much more honest way to use your hacking skills then identity theft or stealing peoples money when you could protect the unpredictable. You'd be like the Robin Hood of magic.

    My point is, magic piracy is a problem and there are things we can do to prevent, eliminate and dilute it.

    ps. I am not advocating breaking the law.
  2. Great steps! Tagging every video you put up with words like "expose", "revealed".. Etc. Is something I really would like EVERYONE to do. That would as you say pretty much cloud up the youtube search net and all lazy pirates wouldn't look there. But I gotta ask. A while ago I made a thread about stopping an Italian guy who exposed all of Zach Muellers tricks, and no he has not stopped there. He's got a ton of subscribers who all ask after more and he keeps putting up new material. They here at t11 said they were to take care of it - but nothing has happened. Nothing at all and by now it has been two months.

    This guys videos are featured while watching a lot of other magic. So while Zach put up a trailer for a new release - that guy released a tutorial which was featured like "TUTORIAL ZACH MUELLER" just next to everything else. Is there something I could do myself to stop this douche?

  3. Guys, you are not going to eliminate piracy or exposure. It has been around far longer than you think and is just the cost of doing business. Stop beating your heads against a wall and evolve.
  4. Steerpike when there is something that we can do to lessen its negative effect of those viewing magic on You Tube, and those selling magic materials it would be wise to act.

    These are easy steps that can go a long way in diluting the magic exposure plaguing the internet.

    Those who evolve are prime targets for exposure. Try watching clips of David Blaine's last special online and tell me how many his evolution has helped kill the amount of exposure videos you get in your suggested watch list.
  5. You keep trying to use David Blaine. How has exposure hurt him? He could never touch another deck of cards in his life and live comfortably with his supermodel wife and kid. And actually, if they were careful I'm pretty sure even his grandchildren wouldn't have to work very hard in life. He's worth 12 million dollars. That's the kind of success most of us can only dream of.

    Also - what is being exposed of his? The stuff you can buy for $30 a pop from MJM. No one is exposing the 'good' stuff because it's not out there. Or it's too hard. Or it doesn't work all the time.

    But it doesn't matter - Exposure is not hurting David Blaine. It's just all that much more advertisement for him. It might be hurting the people who are imitating him, but only because they're trying to be something they are not and not offering anything unique or interesting.

    Be yourself harder than anyone else can be. Do unique material and it won't be exposed because it will take actual study and learning to figure out how it's done and by that time most people are beyond the need to expose the trick for attention.
  6. It hurts those who watch David Blaine online! It hurts those who watch Copperfield online! I want to be able to go on You Tube watch the latest episode of Justin Wilman's Magic Meltdown or watch David Blaine on Jimmy Kimmel without being bombarded with links to exposure pages.

    There are ways to get rid of these links.

  7. Magic exposure is never going to stop. I'd encourage everyone to do what I started doing a few years ago and make the most ridiculous fake "exposure" video you can think of for every trick that comes out. FYI, Calen's channel has about 125k subscribers right now, and it's about to blow up. Stuart has about 1.5 million, but that's due to him having legitimately creative videos; not exposing magic tricks. The best you can do for now is to make fake exposure vids and saturate Youtube with them. Check out my Youtube channel in my signature for some examples.
  8. Exactly! The next big thing in magic will be a You Tube magician we can help the next David Blaine out by saturating the market with other things besides reveals. If making fake tutorials, using buzzwords and taking the initiative to report magic piracy is stupid then why does Theory11 and Ellusionist use these tools so often?
  9. Yeah no that is not the next big thing in magic.
  10. To qualify my last post. Magic is a live performance art. It is best when performing for people. It's too easy to think you are going to become youtube famous. It's a rare thing. I have a friend who is a very talented musician who can't catch a break and he is all over youtube plays live club dates in Chicago five nights a week, but no one knows who he is still.

    I don't think there will be the next David Blaine I think it was luck that Copperfield was able to follow up so closely to Henning. LAnce Burton who is a great magician couldn't make it on TV. There are other more talented close up workers out there who either do not want to be on TV or they know that Blaine knew the medium and used it to his advantage. There is just no quality control on youtube.
  11. There will never be a time when we will have a "youtube magician". Sure, there are a TON of awful,awkward, mediocre bland performers on youtube. The only time I think magic works somewhat on youtube is when it's about a guy showing a group of real people magic that was recorded. Other than that, it's just people following in Jay Sankey's footsteps with bad magic performed for a camera man. (Which is actually depressing for Jay Sankey, he used to be so good and so well respected. But over the past few years he's just rehashed old material and put out bad effects that just show him doing magic for the the camera man.. Oh and that Abysmal "Bending The Real" )
  12. Two of which I'm not going to do and one of which we've been doing since the advent of the DMCA.

    I don't get any exposure videos in my suggested watch list. And what point are you trying to make exactly? Because that paragraph seemed to be suffering from dissociative identity disorder.

    Well, I'm sorry but if people are dumb enough to click on those links and ruin the mystery for themselves, that's their fault, not mine. Most audiences understand that the appeal of magic is in not knowing. If they screw that up for themselves, there's really nothing I can do about it.

    I'm starting to suspect you're less concerned for David's career than you are for yours.

    No. I'm not going to do that.



    By all means, go ahead and report videos. But stop sounding the klaxon and demanding I join your imaginary revolution. I'm far too busy booking actual gigs to concern myself with a bunch of talentless wannabes and nevergonnabes.
  13. The problem is Jay started to believe is own PR. We went from having great things like In a Flash and Unharmed to what ever it is he is doing now. I want the Jay from five years ago back.
  14. Let's look at the whole piracy issue from another position for a moment; "What Causes it?" What Stimulates People to Want to Expose a Trick?"

    Granted, curiosity is a great driver but there is another ingredient people rarely consider in this kind of situation; the magic merchant & developer.


    EFFECT: Imagine, you are able to name the first letter in a word being thought of by a total stranger and within seconds, name the word itself. . .

    No Peeks
    No Forces
    No Mirrors
    No Smoke

    etc. . .

    Then, after you fork out whatever sum they are asking you find a cute quip that goes like this. . . "when you come to the table you get everyone's name that's sitting there and after you've done a few tricks you fiegn as if you've forgotten one person's name (though you really know it). . . Now ask them to not say their name but to just think it. . . after a minute of concentration you name the first letter of their name and then seem to dig a big deeper, suddenly revealing the full name."

    I'm not kidding, this is an actual effect being sold by one of the on-line eBook dealers.

    While the ad copy is "factual" it is more than misleading; especially when it comes to telling you everything not involved and how clean the effect is. Let's face it, anyone that attempts this stunt is liable to be laughed right out of the club -- IT'S STUPID! It's the wort of piece that belongs in a book as a kind of side-piece that's worth experimenting with, perhaps but in truth, it's just some kids brain fart and his little ego told him to write up a pdf and list it with said group where it would appear beside a handful of reputable authors.

    This is a form of theft in my book but magic dealers have gotten away with this kind of misleading advertising for decades but today it is compounded because self-publishing is so easy to do and there are no filters -- no editors or publishers playing middle-man who can filter out this kind of Garbage' and keep it in check.

    A Show of Hands. . . how many here would want to lynch the jerk that wrote this little ditty let alone the merchant that's decided that it's ok to be known for such shoddy quality of merchandise after spending the money on it. . . even if it were just $5.00?

    C*R*A*P of this sort is the kind of thing that breeds contempt and ultimately sparks a small fire in the heart and mind of people that aren't as forgiving as I am (is my respirator making too much noise for you?) and who have the audacity to toss all of magic into the same garbage can and in so doing, strike out to get even with "all magician" by exposing our secrets and worse.

    Can you imagine how nervous the magic community would get if I were so petty? If I were to get so pissed over such things that I started making exposure videos on ALL the stuff I know?

    What a coop that would be!

    But no, I'm just shinning light on one example of something that gives magic & magicians (especially merchants and so-called "experts') a bad name.

    I can't decide if such material is released out of ignorance, for the sake of greed or to just play a practical joke on whatever sucker that comes along and forks out the cash. Regardless, it's wrong and too, it is exactly why I tell young people to NOT run out and rush into publishing things just because they can. The punk that released this piece will never live it down and unless he used a pen name in producing this "book" he'll have to change his name in order to not be a laughing stock industry wide.

    Sure, this is an old guy's rant over loosing $5.00 on what read to be a decent effect. But it is just as much an example of the kinds of things some of our favorite contributors as well as the novice, are throwing out there that falls short and really does breed contempt. Bad magic hurting us all.
  15. I think another issue is the instant downloads and the cheap price of the effects getting exposed. It's too easy to download something learn it that afternoon and then record your exposure video that night trying to get hits. It get worse for the kids who exposed the $5 and $10 downloads to get subscribers. Then start losing them when they only perform the killer or pricey stuff and then feel they have to expose the new stuff to keep the numbers.
  16. As Steerpike said - while I don't disagree with the idea of fake exposure videos, I'm not diluting my brand to produce them. Unless you're a comedy magician, it is unprofessional.

    I really don't think exposure is the huge, colossal threat it's made out to be, though.
  17. I was going to add something similar myself. How much do people really value these $5 downloads? Really? You get what you pay for.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's exclusive to comedy magicians, but those of us who build our reputations on high theatricality or, especially in the case of mentalism, trying to create belief rather than suspend disbelief, it completely crushes the persona we've worked so hard to get the audience invested in. It's far more counterproductive than the exposure videos are.
  18. I know this is off topic, but one my favorite effects he put out was Paper clipped and the DVD of him actually performing for real people with it was really refreshing. What is sad about it is you'd think he'd have some sort of buffer (IE: Friends in the industry to test things and ideas out on who can tell him if something is crap or actually a good idea.), but it seems like he doesn't care if he craps on his own reputation.
  19. Since is pushing guys who expose magic on youtube i think he has lost the plot. Right now it seems money is first and the magic is second.
  20. I don't really see too much of a problem with the 5 dollar downloads. Look at the Michael Ammar lecture that is coming out. It's one freaking dollar. Yet, you KNOW you are going to get a TON of great things from it.. Because it's being taught by one of the top performers in the country.

    As for The Wire on Theory11, SOME of the things on there are great and some of them seem like a sort of clever idea. The main problem with that is that some of the things may not have actually been tested on real audiences or people (Which explains why they aren't in a book or Genii or MUM article.). As for piracy in magic, it's been around longer than most anybody here can imagine and will more than likely not go anywhere for a long time. The best thing to do is either A) create effects that have to use a specific gimmick (What Greg Wilson started doing). or B)Move on with you life and just ignore.

    The same can be said for magic exposure on youtube. If you want to learn from people who can't execute moves correctly or who can barely perform without stuttering or looking like a boob. Then be my guest, it just makes the people who actually learn things correctly look better, while you end up looking worse.

    "You can get a T Bone by sticking your head up a bulls butt, wouldn't you rather take the butchers word for it?"

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