I Think We Need to Step Back for a Sec.

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Oct 21, 2007
3,146
1
29
Bergen County, NJ, USA
Overall, I cannot say I'm too happy with some of the people in this community. (NOTE: I said some. How much is "some" will be left for you to guess. This is not directed toward the ENTIRE community, but a pretty big chunk of it. So when I say "this community", please don't think I'm talking about EVERY PERSON. You know who you are.)

I feel this community needs a change. A big one. I think people are enthusiastic about advancing their magic and being productive, but many people don't have the DRIVE to do it. I also think that the forums are many times counter-productive with bad advice given from people that are not knowledgeable enough to give it.

Let's rewind the clocks a few days. David Blaine's iPhone app was full of awesome. Even so, my friend Shane Black and I disliked it for the same reasons. We felt it would be cool to laymen, but to have this app as a magician would only show that we have no skill and we are just gimmicky. So Shane developed a new way to use the application. He posted it in the David Blaine thread and not a single person responded to his post. I didn't see it and when Shane told me this on the phone I just said "Well it's possible that people skipped over it because it was a long post in a thread about the app and people just decided to skip over it."

So I asked Shane for his T11 password. I went on and copied and pasted his entire post in its own thread which can be viewed here. To my surprise, the thread barely got ANY responses. Shane predicted it.

So... My question is this. How does a thread like Shane's get almost NO replies after being up for quite a while and a thread like this get 7 pages of replies after being up for only a few minutes? I really wish to know that. Someone spent a few hours coming up with a way to enhance an effect and he gets nothing, but some troll like this somehow manages to get PAGES of replies in minutes? Now does this sound productive to you?

I can get very sick sometimes of what I read on here. It seems people care less about the REAL magic and only care about the newest and greatest thing to come out on T11. Someone actually posted a great idea and wanted some feedback. He got none. That makes me depressed. Now this brings me to my next point.

We just finished the chat with Daniel Garcia. Overall, the video portion was good, but the chatting area of the chat was, in my opinion, a complete disgrace. First off, it was one heck of a spamapalooza. People were spamming their questions CONSTANTLY. The chat was unreadable at some points. Also, TONS of the questions being asked were pathetic. I was seeing things like "What's your favorite deck of cards", "What's the price point for Symphony?", "Any new decks coming out soon?", "When are the DG projects coming out?", and other ridiculous questions. Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? You're in a chat with a creative god that works for David Blaine and has tons of working experience, and you ask him what his favorite deck of cards is or what the price point of his new DVD is? I won't elaborate further because that just speaks for itself.

I think we all need to step back for a moment and look at ourselves and where we are with our magic. Are you where you want to be? Look how many books you have on your shelf compared to how many DVD's. Think about the questions you were asking in the DG chat. Also think about how you post on T11. Are your posts primarily in the fiery hell of spam/troll threads or are you posting in a productive thread? I think we all need to step back and look in the mirror for a few long moments.

-Doug
 
Nov 16, 2008
2,275
0
33
In the not to distant future
We just finished the chat with Daniel Garcia. Overall, the video portion was good, but the chatting area of the chat was, in my opinion, a complete disgrace. First off, it was one heck of a spamapalooza. People were spamming their questions CONSTANTLY. The chat was unreadable at some points. Also, TONS of the questions being asked were pathetic. I was seeing things like "What's your favorite deck of cards", "What's the price point for Symphony?", "Any new decks coming out soon?", "When are the DG projects coming out?", and other ridiculous questions. Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? You're in a chat with a creative god that works for David Blaine and has tons of working experience, and you ask him what his favorite deck of cards is or what the price point of his new DVD is? I won't elaborate further because that just speaks for itself.

Yeah, It got so bad, I ended up leaving early on. I'm watching the recorded version now. Anyway, people love drama. People don't like to be questioned or asked for their opinion because they fear people will not agree with it. You've said all that really needs to be said.
 
Doug,

Your words are nearly exactly the same cause I tried to fight for several years ago on a different forum. Fact is, people are people, and nothing will change that. The general populace today is ignorant, immature, and disrespectful. The Internet makes this only more true as they can hide behind a handle or the fact that they are behind the veil that is the online world.

This forum, like every forum (and I have been on forums for about 5 years), is just a place where ignorance takes center stage, as it can be viewed just as many times as intelligence and decency. That is all this place is, its a sum of its parts, garbage in, garbage out. You figure out how to make thousands of people be upstanding, intelligent, respectful, and decent human beings and then maybe this board will change. Until then, you're just pissing in a fan.


C
 
Sep 1, 2007
286
2
New Zealand
Who cares if your friend didn't get enough responses in his thread?

What do you expect from a site like this with a bunch of 16 year old internet magicians. Ellusionist is the same, except the moderating over there is a lot better.

I do however agree with your post, the ONE thing that gripes me is people giving advice and tips when they quite honestly have no idea what they're talking about themselves. They should stick to spamming Daniel Garcia chats
 
So... My question is this. How does a thread like Shane's get almost NO replies after being up for quite a while and a thread like this get 7 pages of replies after being up for only a few minutes? I really wish to know that. Someone spent a few hours coming up with a way to enhance an effect and he gets nothing, but some troll like this somehow manages to get PAGES of replies in minutes? Now does this sound productive to you?


-Doug


That's why the only reason I come around here any more is to have a laugh with those "troll" threads. (And to ask questions about stuff I can't ask on E. Which is rare.)

I think people like to spam trolls to death for fun/ to keeping them from coming back. That's why these sort of threads get locked/deleted instantly on E. If yall mods started cracking down on rule breakers the spammers would leave, people who aren't here to learn would follow them, and we'd be left off a lot better than we started.

I was gonna make a thread about off topic posts the other day, but I figured you guys are sick of me b*tching about it and changed my mind. Oh well, here goes!


People need to stop posting things like "Sticky this!" or talking about the pass in a thread on the clipshift. USE PMS!!!

Stop saying "Close this thread!" or "Ban such and such!" USE THE REPORT ABUSE BUTTON!! THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR!

If all of us (even me) could start doing that it would be a big step in the right direction.

Cheers!

 
Personally I think it's like the whole global warming/energy saving stuff the world is going through right now. We know what's going on, but even if some major corporations switch over to electric cars and solar panels the general population will go about doing what they want to do. It will take a lot of effort and a lot of time for the entire world to shift, and it's scary because we don't have enough time.

People are people. They do what they feel like because they can. Unless we activate strict rules and ridiculous requirements the people will just keep asking those silly questions. It'll take a lot of time and effort to switch over to a healthy and happy way.

With the global situation we can pass crazy laws and hope that will work. But there will still be some loners who get away with it. Same for the forums... we can make insane guidelines and pray people start following them but again we cannot stop the few loners.

I think the best solution is to have some of the icons speak up. This is what globally we're doing right now and while it's not perfect, it's the best we can do. We can't hope for 100% in either case, but a 50% cut down on pollution and other harms would be noticeable and nice. If theory11 artists and crew members (like yourself Sinful, you've started it) speak up and talk to the community, then maybe there can be change. But we're just a small pea in a pod. Just a website, a community in the massive land of the Internet. We cannot hope for 100%, but some small changes should be enough.
 
Sadly, that's the reason I quit visiting here. Nothing productive really comes from these forums anymore. It started off great... Curtis Miles was here, Brad Henderson posted often, and there were quite a few 'workers' here, including myself. The content quality was pretty decent too. But these past few months it's gone waaaaay downhill, basically to the point where there's too much garbage to sift through and get to the good stuff.

Sad, but that's the way it is I guess. Just the style of the forums...and if most of the users are happy, then nothing is really going to change. Nor should it I guess... majority rules, right?!

Best.
Steve
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,051
1
30
In a rock concert
I feel this community needs a change. A big one. I think people are enthusiastic about advancing their magic and being productive, but many people don't have the DRIVE to do it.

First of all, I really like that part, pretty much sums all what is happening in the forums right now...

Now, I hope this ACTUALLY makes a change, I still remember this thread, funny thing is that everyone there started replying just like in this thread " oh, thank you sin!" "amen to your words sin" " I will try my best sin!"

And what happened? all those people forgot and sinful wishes died along with his thread, So yeah, I expect a lot of people saying "thank you sin!" in this thread, yeah, very ironic if you ask me...


So... My question is this. How does a thread like Shane's get almost NO replies after being up for quite a while and a thread like this get 7 pages of replies after being up for only a few minutes? I really wish to know that. Someone spent a few hours coming up with a way to enhance an effect and he gets nothing, but some troll like this somehow manages to get PAGES of replies in minutes? Now does this sound productive to you?

That pretty much shows you everybody true colors, people love drama, specially the people in this forums, they will rather read and post something stupid and "bashful" in a thread like that rather than trying to think and post something actually useful in the forums (and yes, I am in that group too).

I can get very sick sometimes of what I read on here. It seems people care less about the REAL magic and only care about the newest and greatest thing to come out on T11.

True. After all, is just a hobby for them, why they should care about doing REAL magic? I mean, they just want something to impress their friends.

Also, TONS of the questions being asked were pathetic. I was seeing things like "What's your favorite deck of cards", "What's the price point for Symphony?", "Any new decks coming out soon?", "When are the DG projects coming out?", and other ridiculous questions. Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? You're in a chat with a creative god that works for David Blaine and has tons of working experience....

It was so sad reading and being in that chat, really, when I heard that there was going to be a live chat with DG where he was going to answer questions I was like "hooray!" that's great, I just entered the chat and what did I see? a lot of dumb questions, and I mean A LOOOOOT, there were some good questions there, but they were killed by the dumb questions asked by the majority of the members, I know that you guys are hyped for the big "symphony" release whatev, but I was looking forward to learn something useful from there and to read good thoughts and comments by the members here, I mean, is it really useful to know "the chicken nuggets story"? or if DG is anxious to go to said city I mean come on!, thankfully he answered some good questions, but it was a shame to see the chat spammed with those kind of questions really.


And yes, I do expect a lot of "thank you sin!" replies and not even a little of action.
 
May 31, 2008
1,929
0
Sadly, that's the reason I quit visiting here. Nothing productive really comes from these forums anymore. It started off great... Curtis Miles was here, Brad Henderson posted often, and there were quite a few 'workers' here, including myself. The content quality was pretty decent too. But these past few months it's gone waaaaay downhill, basically to the point where there's too much garbage to sift through and get to the good stuff.

Sad, but that's the way it is I guess. Just the style of the forums...and if most of the users are happy, then nothing is really going to change. Nor should it I guess... majority rules, right?!

Best.
Steve

I know what you mean. I come here for advice from old magicians, and to give advice to magicians who are just starting out (4 years experience, that's all I'm qualified for) Unfortunately I rarely find it. Recently I discovered that the only reason I come here is because I'm bored.

From this point on I will only visit for SNCs and to ask questions and write reviews.
 
Personally I think it's like the whole global warming/energy saving stuff the world is going through right now. We know what's going on, but even if some major corporations switch over to electric cars and solar panels the general population will go about doing what they want to do. It will take a lot of effort and a lot of time for the entire world to shift, and it's scary because we don't have enough time.

People are people. They do what they feel like because they can. Unless we activate strict rules and ridiculous requirements the people will just keep asking those silly questions. It'll take a lot of time and effort to switch over to a healthy and happy way.

With the global situation we can pass crazy laws and hope that will work. But there will still be some loners who get away with it. Same for the forums... we can make insane guidelines and pray people start following them but again we cannot stop the few loners.

I think the best solution is to have some of the icons speak up. This is what globally we're doing right now and while it's not perfect, it's the best we can do. We can't hope for 100% in either case, but a 50% cut down on pollution and other harms would be noticeable and nice. If theory11 artists and crew members (like yourself Sinful, you've started it) speak up and talk to the community, then maybe there can be change. But we're just a small pea in a pod. Just a website, a community in the massive land of the Internet. We cannot hope for 100%, but some small changes should be enough.

I disagree.

First: There have been lots of threads by "icons" calling for just that. It does no good.

Second: I think that the rules are just fine! The only problem is that the rules are not enforced consistently in any way, shape, or form. I've stress tested the rules before, I've broken them left and right; only to get a slap on the hand, or nothing. That tells me something is seriously wrong.
 
Jul 8, 2008
444
1
I can't say this belongs here (that's what she said), but I might as well put up my thoughts on David Blaine's app lol.

In my honest and almost professional opinion, David Blaine's app is one of those things you will put money into and get almost nothing in return. This is one of those tricks that you will show your friends and get a "cool" or "oh that's neat, where can I buy this trick" from. But is this really something you want to perform? If you think about it, this trick cannot be performed in actual performance conditions. If you do the effect, you will end up being like, "Oh hi can I show you a trick? Yes? One second, the trick only works with my ipod". You look very un professional.

Just my opinion on the app :p
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,051
1
30
In a rock concert
I know what you mean. I come here for advice from old magicians, and to give advice to magicians who are just starting out (4 years experience, that's all I'm qualified for) Unfortunately I rarely find it. Recently I discovered that the only reason I come here is because I'm bored.

From this point on I will only visit for SNCs and to ask questions and write reviews.

Ok, lol moment #1 here, i'll keep counting.
 
Jun 22, 2009
402
0
I think that the newer threads get pretty much burried in the forum with people replying to other threads. I can see where you come from and agree this place does lack that click to get everyone on the same page when it comes to things. I have been on here for less then a month and can only browse through and see if I find something I can comment on. I am compeltely new to magic so its tough at times to contribute correct information or even understand what some people are asking.
 
Thanks for pointing this out Doug, and I saw that the moderators on the live video chat were too busy, editing thiings people said... totally true. I saw people talking about jon, and I find the people so annoying. I mean, here you have DG and JB on the vid chat and you start talking about asking anyone if they take crack???!!!!! I mean seriously, even if you were joking... you're not that funny.:mad::mad::mad: There... 3 mad faces are enough.....
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,354
1
30
Grand prairie TX
The only reason these forums are full of so much useless bull****.
Is because more than half the populace are hobbyists. Are hobbyists bad?No,i dont think.
But they dont make for good conversation in real interesting subjects on magic.
They wish to discuss the 'feel' of cards and take polls on which flourisher they are most like.
And thats it.
Thats the reason.
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,051
1
30
In a rock concert
What do you mean?

I refer you to my post.

Thanks for pointing this out Doug, and I saw that the moderators on the live video chat were too busy, editing thiings people said... totally true. I saw people talking about jon, and I find the people so annoying. I mean, here you have DG and JB on the vid chat and you start talking about asking anyone if they take crack???!!!!! I mean seriously, even if you were joking... you're not that funny.:mad::mad::mad: There... 3 mad faces are enough.....

Lol moment #2, and I love irony.
 
Thanks for pointing this out Doug, and I saw that the moderators on the live video chat were too busy, editing thiings people said... totally true. I saw people talking about jon, and I find the people so annoying. I mean, here you have DG and JB on the vid chat and you start talking about asking anyone if they take crack???!!!!! I mean seriously, even if you were joking... you're not that funny.:mad::mad::mad: There... 3 mad faces are enough.....

There is a large pretentious vein that seems to run through these statements and the similar ones Doug made about the chat. These problems are faaar from exclusive to this board or its members. If they were, then yes, there would be something to fix. But if you take a moment to look outside of the magic bubble (and the theory11 bubble) you'll that this goes on EVERYWHERE. Read YouTube comments for 5 minutes or go onto any ustream, stickam, or blogtv chat, its everywhere. That alone is why I say that this is a mute point. This savior complex of "fixing" anything is just a waste of time. Spend that priceless time working on magic, not being concerned about some internet site that is simply being affected by ignorance in the same way that every other popular site is.


C
 
May 31, 2008
1,929
0
I refer you to my post.

What's so funny about deciding to spend less time online?

Oh, in case you're wondering why I'm online now it's because I'm waiting to get a PM about my free 1-ON-1 that I won from getting a question answered during the chat.
 
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