If you aren't remembered, you are just empty space

Pete Pridanonda

Elite Member
Jun 13, 2009
402
35
I completely agree with you Anna, and your statement I truly believe applies to all venues of performances whether it be at school or even when you're showing a quick magic to someone. I myself am working on my close up show and my goal from the beginning is also to create a memorable experience to my audience and end with an effect that hopefully people will remember.
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
I completely agree with you Anna, and your statement I truly believe applies to all venues of performances whether it be at school or even when you're showing a quick magic to someone. I myself am working on my close up show and my goal from the beginning is also to create a memorable experience to my audience and end with an effect that hopefully people will remember.

I know you can do it. Gosh I was worried someone would disagree. I got into a fight a few months ago on the forums because I said things should be perfect before performing otherwise you are borderline revealing and then you give magic a bad example of a performance and everyone said it is okay to not be perfect and it is impossible to be perfect and it is human. We are not humans we are magicians… Wow, now I know what I will write about next. :p
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I know you can do it. Gosh I was worried someone would disagree. I got into a fight a few months ago on the forums because I said things should be perfect before performing otherwise you are borderline revealing and then you give magic a bad example of a performance and everyone said it is okay to not be perfect and it is impossible to be perfect and it is human. We are not humans we are magicians… Wow, now I know what I will write about next. :p

I still don´t agree that everything must be perfect...and by this I don´t mean that the sleights should be perfect or the tricks...it goes more depth than that...is just that life happens..as you can see the other day, you got sick and sometimes even with adrenaline, people can see if there is something wrong with you..trust me..been there...I find your final statement a little bit egotistical...we are humans...and humans are not perfect...

Anyway..back on topic...I completely agree with this...and not only in a show in the Magic Castle..but in any performance....magic is to create amazement...and if you fail to do that...then you need to re-consider what are you doing....but I think it´s not a big deal if you are starting out...but if you are a magician at the Magic castle as you mentioned..then of course you don´t deserve a place there...
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
I still don´t agree that everything must be perfect...and by this I don´t mean that the sleights should be perfect or the tricks...it goes more depth than that...is just that life happens..as you can see the other day, you got sick and sometimes even with adrenaline, people can see if there is something wrong with you..trust me..been there...I find your final statement a little bit egotistical...we are humans...and humans are not perfect...

Anyway..back on topic...I completely agree with this...and not only in a show in the Magic Castle..but in any performance....magic is to create amazement...and if you fail to do that...then you need to re-consider what are you doing....but I think it´s not a big deal if you are starting out...but if you are a magician at the Magic castle as you mentioned..then of course you don´t deserve a place there...

I get how it could seem egotistical, I phrased it weird. But it is the idea that as humans we should seem to the people we perform to we should not flash or seem that we are unexperienced unless it is our character or a magician in trouble plot. But even if it is a plot or a character we still do things perfectly and don't flash a slight when it is a REAL slight.

Anyway, being perfect is just my weird theory/opinion, it is a subject where it seems there is no room for excuses and there is none. It is a theory basically. It should be perfect before you show something to someone. When I was sick the adrenaline kicked it and I didn't feel sick at all. The show was one of my best and I know it showed. When the performer is having a good time the audience has a good time. And along the lines of the topic I posted I heard the audience talk well about my show.

Anyway, if I made sense that is amazing in the fact that that never happens. And if I didn't make sense then forget my post. :p
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I get how it could seem egotistical, I phrased it weird. But it is the idea that as humans we should seem to the people we perform to we should not flash or seem that we are unexperienced unless it is our character or a magician in trouble plot. But even if it is a plot or a character we still do things perfectly and don't flash a slight when it is a REAL slight.

Anyway, being perfect is just my weird theory/opinion, it is a subject where it seems there is no room for excuses and there is none. It is a theory basically. It should be perfect before you show something to someone. When I was sick the adrenaline kicked it and I didn't feel sick at all. The show was one of my best and I know it showed. When the performer is having a good time the audience has a good time. And along the lines of the topic I posted I heard the audience talk well about my show.

Anyway, if I made sense that is amazing in the fact that that never happens. And if I didn't make sense then forget my post. :p

I completely agree that a sleight..it´s only a sleight if done perfectly...however...I have never had a gig that goes perfectly...there is always something that needs to be improved...I guess the perfect performance or show for me...will never come...

Anyway...I have some experience performing for people than other magicians here..and to be honest, sometimes the reason of what they want to have the perfect routine, the perfect sleight, the perfect show...is to impress other magicians...I am sick of those magicians that have a horrible patter and horribly complicated show or tricks to try to impress other magicians...

I guess my point here is that maybe it´s not perfect for us...but if it´s look perfect for the audience..then I did my homework...there is always room to continue improving...
 
Feb 17, 2011
185
0
Quebec, Canada
I'll only say this: being perfect is something subjective. While I agree that you need to be prepare and do your utmost best, if you wait to be perfect to show some magic (or everything else in your life) you'll wait a very long time. If you look at your experience (and I mean the things that happen to you) you'll get the feeling that sometime you think you were perfect and nobody will care, sometime you screw big time but the people were entertained and didn't notice it. Experience will come in two flavor: sucess and learning. If you don't learn , then you'll do the same thing over and over. So even if you wasnt' perfect, if you learn from it, then it's not lost. You can do a better job later. As for the bad performer in the Magic castle that you mentioned in your blog, I hope that they've learned something from it.
 
Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
I agree with your blog post, and found it easy to follow. You're apparently making more sense than you think you are.

Though, it looks like you should make an entry on your views of "perfection", because people seem to enjoy that as well. I know I do.

I personally think you're just using the wrong word for your theory. I like the theory, but I don't think 'perfect' is a good term for it.
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
I agree with your blog post, and found it easy to follow. You're apparently making more sense than you think you are.

Though, it looks like you should make an entry on your views of "perfection", because people seem to enjoy that as well. I know I do.

I personally think you're just using the wrong word for your theory. I like the theory, but I don't think 'perfect' is a good term for it.

That is what I've been thinking recently. I'll work on the theory. Thanks for the input everyone, lets just focus on the blog post instead of the word I'm using wrongly. :p
 
Aug 31, 2007
799
1
In some aspects I would agree, but being remembered goes both ways. There are some GREAT acts I remember, and there are some of the worst acts in the world I remember. In some cases, the bad performances I remember and cherish even more than the good ones, because watching bad magic is one of the best, most hilarious experiences I know. That cringe factor makes me smile, I love seeing a terrible act just as much as a good one. So being impressionable and memorable is definitely part of it, but more importantly making it a memory in which they were amazed is I think the key.

Everyone has different ways they'd like to be remembered. Each person should have a totally different idea of what they want their audiences to leave with in their minds - for me personally I want to audiences to walk away thinking I was funny, charming and skillful. I also want them to be impressed by the magic, but I'm more concerned with them liking me and my performance than the magic.

For others it may be totally different. If you are Max Maven, you may want the audience leaving impressed, deceived and a little intimidated. With David Blaine, you'd want the audiences amazed, fooled and thinking "that was really cool". It differs on the performance style, the person, and what you're doing. Being remembered is great, but it's even more important to know what you're aiming for them to remember about you.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
In some aspects I would agree, but being remembered goes both ways. There are some GREAT acts I remember, and there are some of the worst acts in the world I remember. In some cases, the bad performances I remember and cherish even more than the good ones, because watching bad magic is one of the best, most hilarious experiences I know. That cringe factor makes me smile, I love seeing a terrible act just as much as a good one. So being impressionable and memorable is definitely part of it, but more importantly making it a memory in which they were amazed is I think the key.

Everyone has different ways they'd like to be remembered. Each person should have a totally different idea of what they want their audiences to leave with in their minds - for me personally I want to audiences to walk away thinking I was funny, charming and skillful. I also want them to be impressed by the magic, but I'm more concerned with them liking me and my performance than the magic.

For others it may be totally different. If you are Max Maven, you may want the audience leaving impressed, deceived and a little intimidated. With David Blaine, you'd want the audiences amazed, fooled and thinking "that was really cool". It differs on the performance style, the person, and what you're doing. Being remembered is great, but it's even more important to know what you're aiming for them to remember about you.

I have to agree that watching bad magic is awesome!! sometimes I just laugh so hard...that I have to get out of there!!!

I think one of the common mistakes is that we focus on the trick alone...so people only remember "that guy who did this trick"...there should be a balance between: trick, performer and audience...so people remember the trick...the magician...and the feeling of amazement...

One thing to do to help them remember you is to actually have a magician look...and by this I don`t mean a cape and hat but a different outfit or persona that shows that you are different...I hate when I see magicians with some jeans and a dirty shirt, and long hair and they argue that it`s their style...give me a break!!!
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
I think that's quite a sad and depressing way to look at things. Just because people don't remember you it does not mean you're a waste of space or that you're dead to them.
If you look at it like that then what's the point in hobbyists? Of course it's good to be amazing and remembered but not essential.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I think that's quite a sad and depressing way to look at things. Just because people don't remember you it does not mean you're a waste of space or that you're dead to them.
If you look at it like that then what's the point in hobbyists? Of course it's good to be amazing and remembered but not essential.

Great point...I have to consider that...I think that only applies that if you have a paid show...but your statement is very true
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
In some aspects I would agree, but being remembered goes both ways. There are some GREAT acts I remember, and there are some of the worst acts in the world I remember. In some cases, the bad performances I remember and cherish even more than the good ones, because watching bad magic is one of the best, most hilarious experiences I know. That cringe factor makes me smile, I love seeing a terrible act just as much as a good one. So being impressionable and memorable is definitely part of it, but more importantly making it a memory in which they were amazed is I think the key.

Everyone has different ways they'd like to be remembered. Each person should have a totally different idea of what they want their audiences to leave with in their minds - for me personally I want to audiences to walk away thinking I was funny, charming and skillful. I also want them to be impressed by the magic, but I'm more concerned with them liking me and my performance than the magic.

For others it may be totally different. If you are Max Maven, you may want the audience leaving impressed, deceived and a little intimidated. With David Blaine, you'd want the audiences amazed, fooled and thinking "that was really cool". It differs on the performance style, the person, and what you're doing. Being remembered is great, but it's even more important to know what you're aiming for them to remember about you.

Very true. Being remembered is great and even better if you are remembered for the better reasons. That is the best.
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
I think that's quite a sad and depressing way to look at things. Just because people don't remember you it does not mean you're a waste of space or that you're dead to them.
If you look at it like that then what's the point in hobbyists? Of course it's good to be amazing and remembered but not essential.

I get ya. What I truly mean, as in if it has to be one statement, if you are not remembered then it is as if you never performed for them.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
Ah OK that makes more sense to me than your initial statements. There are people that remember me performing from 5+ years ago so I know what you mean, it's great when people bump in to us and say how they remember the amazing magic we performed but I still think that by saying "if you are not remembered then it is as if you never performed for them." you are setting a lot of people up to fail.
My point though is that not everyone has what it takes to be remembered, are you saying it's pointless to perform for the people who aren't at the better end of the magical ladder? Some people perform for themselves and for some people it's the memory of performing that makes them happy, not whether they are remembered because let's face it, people have a lot going on in their lives these days.

Also, think of your top 10 favorite films of all time. I bet there's at least one film that you absolutely loved that you forgot about, until something reminds you of it. Get what I'm saying? ;)
 
Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
It depends on what you're doing magic for.

If one is doing magic to be remembered, as a performer in the Castle might be, then one should strive to be memorable, so that when people think of the Castle, they remember the magician in question, and remember how much fun they had.

If, however, one is simply doing magic as a bit of an offbeat thing for friends, just for kicks, and not necessarily aiming to leave a lasting impression, then who's to say it's wrong for not striving for perfection?

When I perform professionally, I have a different attitude as to when I'm performing for friends, or as to when I'm performing for practice, or as to when I'm performing for experimentation.
 
Oct 12, 2009
286
0
Navarre, Florida
Honestly I feel like the complete opposite. You could take that logic and say it's not worth your time performing for people with alzheimer's because they'll just forget it later. I'm personally not looking for anything more than the moment. If they remember me for days, months, years, whatever, fantastic. I love the idea of giving them some kind of positive memory they can hold onto but sometimes people got other things going on.

This isn't some excuse for mediocrity by any means. I work hard and do my best and strive to make the most of that moment. Just to me, performing for the sake of being remembered feels driven more so by the ego.

By all means, be amazing. Just don't beat yourself up if greater things have happened to them than your magic. The important thing is you care enough to try.
 
May 15, 2010
493
3
28
With Gerard Way
Honestly I feel like the complete opposite. You could take that logic and say it's not worth your time performing for people with alzheimer's because they'll just forget it later. I'm personally not looking for anything more than the moment. If they remember me for days, months, years, whatever, fantastic. I love the idea of giving them some kind of positive memory they can hold onto but sometimes people got other things going on.

This isn't some excuse for mediocrity by any means. I work hard and do my best and strive to make the most of that moment. Just to me, performing for the sake of being remembered feels driven more so by the ego.

By all means, be amazing. Just don't beat yourself up if greater things have happened to them than your magic. The important thing is you care enough to try.

Thank you very much for your input however, you are completely mistaken in the sense that you assume that I just perform for the sake of being remembered. That is totally false. I perform to entertain.
 
Oct 12, 2009
286
0
Navarre, Florida
Thank you very much for your input however, you are completely mistaken in the sense that you assume that I just perform for the sake of being remembered. That is totally false. I perform to entertain.

". If you don’t do it well then you are not remembered and all your work, that whole 15 minutes or that whole half hour goes to waste. "

You say you don't perform for the sake of being remembered and yet you write a full on rant stating that you feel a performance is completely invalidated if the performer is not remembered. I mean the title of this very thread, that you started mind you, is "If you aren't remembered then you are just empty space".

Uh...what?
 
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