I'm not thrilled about "The Trilogy".

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by notnilc20, May 23, 2009.

  1. I'm probably the only one on here who wasn't impressed with Dan and Dave's teaching in the Trilogy series. While I know it's their style, I'm not into the Monotonous teaching approach, it's not fun to watch the DVD like other DVD's that I have.

    Also, Sorry, but the tricks were just too short and the teaching while some of them were pretty decent, I hated how on difficult sleights he would say "This will be a brief explanation"....now I know on basic sleights and manuevers sure it's ok b/c this dvd is not for beginners....things like the Double Lift or pass or what have you.....but some more difficult maneuvers I feel they should've taught better......like the "Aaron fisher pop over move" done in Card across. He just says, "this will be a brief explanation" ok fine, maybe I should know this by now (even though I don't) but why do they spend 5 minutes explaining a simple card steal and then showing a side view of the same steal in case you didn't get it the first time. To me it's just very frustrating that they spend so much time on a few basic maneuvers and card displays but don't do the same with the more advanced maneuvers.

    Another thing is that in "Card Across" and "Card to Mouth", I don't feel it's very feasible to do this in an actual setting b/c on the performance on the dvd, the camara zooms in on the one hand and the other hand is doing another sleight.....to me it's just not realistic to think that there will be that much misdirection (ok ok, yeah I need to work on the misdirection myself yes I know). It's more of a one on one trick too I suppose...but still....come on.

    In the trick "Swiss made" it's pretty easy to see that when he puts the selected card back with the pack it goes on the top and then he outjogs a dummy card in the middle but he does this quickly, however, if you are only remotely paying attention to the trick, then you can see it quite clearly.

    With the trick "The Queens", in the last vanish he does a completely different vanish then the one taught on the dvd. Huh? What's up with that? Maybe they don't have the rights to teach it? Ok, fine, then don't show it on the performance. Seems like common sense if you are going to make a dvd on magic instruction. So instead we get to "Slap" down on the deck to vanish the last queen. Seems a little weak.

    Now of course Dan and Dave's skills are beyond belief as they are a couple of the best magicians and conjurers out there but I just felt that the "Tricks" dvd fell short of my expectations. Hope this doesn't bother any of the D&D lovers out there but I just had to get it off my chest. Later.
     
  2. I'm just going to run through the points you made and say some stuff.

    The Trilogy is not a beginner's DVD, so they expect you to know how to do the majority of moves in the explanation. I don't know why they spent time on the easier moves, but I do know that trying to explain the One Handed Popout would take more time than they had. If you are truly passionate and determined to learn the move, I would highly recommend picking up Aaron Fisher's book The Paper Engine. There is a thorough explanation written in it.

    Don't be hatin' on Hand to Mouth. If you try it in real life, the trick is basically self working. The built in misdirection of asking them to push their card in does just that every single time. There really isn't any way of realizing this without actually going out there and trying it. Same deal with Cards Across. You should have basic audience management and misdirection skills if you perform regularly, so having the audience focus where you want them to is not a big problem. The Popout is a quick move, so it should only take a moment of misdirection to accomplish it.

    I'll admit that the switch used in Swiss Made does not seem deceptive to the trained eye. However, you as a learner and a magician have the advantage of 1) knowing sleight of hand techniques and 2) have a camera that follows the hands. In real life the hand moves much quicker than the eye, and the switch should not be performed when your hands are being burned. It's quick, deceptive, and quiet, so it should be used in the moment of relaxation after the card is memorized.

    This has been discussed in countless threads. The move used at the end of the Queens is Chad Nelson's Clipshift. At the time, they had just begun to plan Surfaced, Chad's new DVD. On it he teaches the Clipshift along with its many applications. They couldn't teach a move that they would be releasing eventually, and Dan and Dave have discussed this many times on forums, etc. To add on to that, the Clipshift cannot be sufficiently taught in a short amount of time. It has its own DVD for crying out loud.

    Your Welcome.
     
  3. Me too Buddy!! I bought the trilogy and in reality the tricks are not useful in the real life, some of them are very hard to do and are not worth the effort because when a layman sees them they just think that you have fast hands and nothing more...

    there are some tricks that I did like like subway and Tivo 2.0 and yes I got upset when they didn´t teach the "Clipshift" that´s the name of the last vanish in The Queens, I was like "WTF!!! then don´t do it in the performance if you are not going to teach it!!"

    aside from many people here I don´t like the Bucks style, and I discover this when I was finishing watching the trilogy...
     
  4. I'm a huge D&D an going back a long way now, I got one of the first edition trillogys so I do love the guys and have been a fan for a long time.

    BUT I totally agree with a lot of the points made. The teaching isn't great! and you're spot on with the fact some simple things are taken into detai where as some advanced manuveres are brushed over!

    However one point I need to stand up and disagree with strongly is the card to mouth. I've been doing it for years in my ambitious card routine! And the misdirection is beautiful for the trick. Cause the misdirection is tellign them to watch closely so even though you say this hey watch the wrong place. loo check it out: (it does work)

    http://www.vimeo.com/3892120

    However for the to call this a stand alone effect I could argue, and it felt liek a bit of filler to me? Esepcially considering the same effect has been round for years just not with a flourishy handling.

    But where it's easy to pick at faults it's only fair to give them their due, amazing card handlers and I still get excited for every release and every new video.
     
  5. i actually disagree. although they were boring, they were very efficient teachers. they got through all the NEEDED sleights and gave them thorough explanations. the more difficult sleights could easily be replaced by others. anyway, i find most of these tricks not only practical, but useful. i find them to be great teachers, because they get the job done.

    -max
     
  6. heres an idea for the last vanish of the queens instead of slapping them. all you do is a classic pass with just the single card on the bottom. it works.
     
  7. This should be in the product review section anyway. Oh and card to mouth is very practical.
     
  8. Their is a much different approach if your a magician, than a spectator, trust me, you can get away with much if your good at misdirection, and have actually learned the sleights.

    I'm guessing you haven't practiced enough to get everything out of that DVD!
     
  9. It's ok, the matrial is sorta over complecated and the teaching is not the best


    7/10
     
  10. Hopefully you read this, and hope it helps.

    Okay notnilc20;

    Number 1:: The Trilogy is a three(3) disk experience like no other. When this thing came out there was nothing like it. People have referred back to this thing(as well as myself) for inspiration and references. It has everything from flourishes, effects, sleights, and everything in between. Also!, not to mention that the newest disc Andthensome has a variety of effects, sleights, as well as a couple of neat flourishes.

    Number 2:: If you are upset that the fact that Dan and Dave gave "brief explanations", this is because those are moves that they did not create,and hence cannot teach without permission from the creator. This is why they give you references to were you learn the move in more detail if you needed more information on it.

    Number 3:: If you would have taken the time to read through reviews on The Trilogy, at either www.dananddave.com or www.theory11.com you would have realized that this DVD set is not for the beginning magician/flourisher. Since you have the DVD already, I suggest you go through the Everything Else disc, and try to learn the things that you think you would use, or that you simply look cool.

    Number 4:: Just because you bought more advanced material doesn't mean you should trash it or think down on it or the creators. I bet you have heard this a million times,but hell it is true. Practice! Especially if you are trying to learn something more difficult then you are used to. When you are learning something on the DVD, go through the performance+explanation a good handful of times, then take the time to study every movement that they make,and why they made that movement, this helps wonders with learning.

    Number 5:: Focus on a couple things at a time. Because this is more advanced material, you don't not want to make yourself go crazy trying to learn, practice, and perfect Pandora, Jackson 5, Center Double, Tivo 2.0 etc.. I would suggest to pick a small handful(3-4) things that really catch your eye or that you really want to learn. And focus on just those for a little while. In the mean time, because you are only doing lets say for example Tivo 2.0, your going to find a method that suites you the best or maybe even make your own variation off of it.

    Number 6:: That last change in The Queens, is called Clipshift by Chad Nelson, also available on www.dananddave.com . Before you start asking questions that have been answer many times, do some research,please.

    Number 7:: Your problem with Swiss Made, simply seems like you did not practice it enough. Perhaps watching performances of it on Youtube, could give you ideas for clean up of that "dummy card". Here is one to check out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj7xO_Y4BTk

    Number 8:: If you are having trouble with sleights, moves, patter or anything specific. Head over to danandave and make a thread, they are very kind, and Dan and Dave themselves could probably help you.

    Hope this was of any value to you, and that you read it and found some useful information.

    -Alex


    Why wouldn't you just get The Trilogy for free????? Its free here....
    http://tinyurl.com/253ftf
     
  11. I see you have a low post count, so I won't go all out insane on you.:p

    I will say though, the Trilogy is not meant for beginners. Buy it only if you are somewhat experienced with sleight of hand already. Also, if you don't know the sleights taught, then you have to practice practice practice.

    There is not much of a point making a thread about this in general discussion. If you want to share your opinions on the Trilogy, write up a review and post it in the review section of the site.

    -Doug
     
  12. Thread re-opened after a quick PM from the thread creator.

    -Doug
     
  13. For card handling I got a basic MAGIC!! book at a store years ago and nothing else. And I still learned everything from the trilogy perfectly..hmm.
    I love using these tricks because when I do use a deck of cards,i love to show people how much spectacle is in sleight of hand,but then bowl them over with an impossible card illusion where I do away with the idea of sleight of hand.
     
  14. The Trilogy, in my opinion, is overrated. WAIT, this is just for a magician like me! I stray away from the flashy for the most part. The Tricks and Flourishes Discs were useless to me. I only use three in-the-hands packet flourishes and that's all I need. The Trick section featured some visually cool stuff, but ultimately disappointed me, in that I also tend to shy away from 10 second effects. The only effect I've used is Subway, which I genuinely like a lot.

    The only disc of real value to me was the Everythingelse disc. I love neat, snappy flourishes like deck flips and table cuts, so this disc was right up my alley.

    Great set, way ahead of its predecessors, but the material wasn't for me.
     
  15. I overall love this 3 set dvd. I have been more into cardistry latley so I LOVE their flourishing and am still practicing. As a flourisher you need to at least have to add some card tricks into your arsenal of flourishing moves so it's great. Everything else also provides nice effects and cool stuff.

    My favorite dvd's out of the triology and andthensome are...

    flourishes and andthensome.
     
  16. There is a lot of magic I don't like on the Trilogy. I never perform Queens. Ever.:p The sleights taught though are invaluable.

    <333 Spin Change <33333

    -Doug
     
  17. It seems these are the complaints given by the original post that remain standing:

    1) "While I know it's their style, I'm not into the Monotonous teaching approach."

    2) "Sorry, but the tricks were just too short."

    Not liking the monotonous teaching is quite understandable, and at times I had the same feelings. But while you're never going to be entertained by listening to the explanations, the monotonous thing actually helps me focus on what's going on and makes it easier to understand. Maybe that's just me. I definitely do respect non-monotonous approaches, but monotonousness does have its advantages. And hey, what did you expect? Have you ever seen Dan or Dave do something exciting that wasn't a trick or flourish? :)

    That is an issue, though. Dan and Dave can get away with it just because they are so good at what they do. They go for minimalism in personality so the focus can be on what's happening in their hands. Unfortunately a whole group of guys now think that this performance style is alright for most people. Not so.

    I don't think the complaint about the tricks being short is really legitimate; you could have easily seen that by looking at performance videos. If you didn't like the length of the tricks, why did you buy the product? Anyway, there are many ways these tricks can be combined into minute-long effects. Hand to mouth, collectors, and card across are all great to fit into an ACR, and if you're creative you can come up with other combinations. One idea I've had is to start with the four nines, mix them into the deck with Chris Kenner's four for four switch, perform 69, then move into the queens, then collectors.

    One correction: I do think the complaints about some things not being taught in detail is legitimate. Is it really legitimate to sell an effect that uses a sleight you can't teach? No. I didn't feel like this reduced the value too much, though it was somewhat annoying.

    If you'd like to see all my thoughts on the tricks portion of the Trilogy, you can read my recently published review.
     
  18. I agree with this. Dan and Dave somewhat set an example for young followers, and that it's perfectly fine to spend all of your practice time on technique and flashiness... that it's ok to be silent while performing. Ouch.
     
  19. Don't textually rape me, but I personally hated the trilogy.

    There's just nothing really there of value.
     
  20. prepare to get textually melested. Even if you don't like the tricks taught on the dvd's there is still a lot of info there. Lots of controls, double lifts, and other sleights.
     

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