This is a variable that can make or break an Ambitious Card Routine. What do you think is the right amount of phases before it gets redundant?
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Important Ambitious Card Question
- Thread starter MagicDrummer08
- Start date
I have six moves in my ACR and i think it is just the right but everyone have their own opinions. 1 is too short and 10 is too long...
It can be very long or very short, it depends on what you want. The important thing is that you present it properly.
You can do it twice, 3, even 8 ( Darwin Ortiz ) or 13 ( Daryl ). The idea is the ACR should be around a given number of phases is not right.
Do others routine, experiment and see for yourself. So far the standard has been pretty much the Michael Ammar routine ( which is the one done by David Blaine in his first special ). I did the Vernon routine for quite some time, and added ideas from different magicians.
My point? If you're just starting out, a good idea is to try out different routines from different magicians ( obviously you're making them your own by your performing persona, you can use the same patter theme as theirs too ). The more you get into magic, you'll come across presentational ideas and phases that will make your routine long in the process ( myself ) or short ( a friend of mine ). It really depends on what your doing.
Darwin Ortiz's routine is very well constructed, and is 8 phases, check it out in Scams and Fantasies book ( or DVD vol.1 )
~ Feras
You can do it twice, 3, even 8 ( Darwin Ortiz ) or 13 ( Daryl ). The idea is the ACR should be around a given number of phases is not right.
Do others routine, experiment and see for yourself. So far the standard has been pretty much the Michael Ammar routine ( which is the one done by David Blaine in his first special ). I did the Vernon routine for quite some time, and added ideas from different magicians.
My point? If you're just starting out, a good idea is to try out different routines from different magicians ( obviously you're making them your own by your performing persona, you can use the same patter theme as theirs too ). The more you get into magic, you'll come across presentational ideas and phases that will make your routine long in the process ( myself ) or short ( a friend of mine ). It really depends on what your doing.
Darwin Ortiz's routine is very well constructed, and is 8 phases, check it out in Scams and Fantasies book ( or DVD vol.1 )
~ Feras
Wow - what a good question.
I think you can see from above, there is no ONE right answer. Some people believe in the rule of three...others do every phase they know.
What you really need to concern yourself with, Magic Drummer, is what the EXTERNAL reality is of the effect you are showing...and that each method cancels out the method you used while you build the impossibility.
Gary Kurtz does a 5 phase routine in "Leading with your Head" (book) and I would recommend it.
The point is - if the first phase you put it in without showing the face...the second phase you might want you use a method where you can. It is this type of build that makes the effect clear and powerful. The above post mentions Daryl's ambitious card...you may want to research it - it won first place at FISM - so I think at least to the guys you look up to...it is considered one of the best. When you see how he builds it like I mentioned, you will get the idea of how many or few phases you will need to accomplish this in your work.
Good luck.
I think you can see from above, there is no ONE right answer. Some people believe in the rule of three...others do every phase they know.
What you really need to concern yourself with, Magic Drummer, is what the EXTERNAL reality is of the effect you are showing...and that each method cancels out the method you used while you build the impossibility.
Gary Kurtz does a 5 phase routine in "Leading with your Head" (book) and I would recommend it.
The point is - if the first phase you put it in without showing the face...the second phase you might want you use a method where you can. It is this type of build that makes the effect clear and powerful. The above post mentions Daryl's ambitious card...you may want to research it - it won first place at FISM - so I think at least to the guys you look up to...it is considered one of the best. When you see how he builds it like I mentioned, you will get the idea of how many or few phases you will need to accomplish this in your work.
Good luck.
What sort of question is that? As long as it is interesting and varied.
If you do an ACR with 8 moves, and all 8 are the card going from middle to top, it will be boring. But if the first time it appears on the top, the second time on the buttom, third time in your pocket, fourth time with a shapeshifter color change, fifth time under the box, sixth time inside the box, seventh time it jumps out from the packet and in the eighth it dissapears completely from the deck... Well, it will be interesting, cause you can surprise your audience every single time.
Watch Derren Brown do a very long three cards routine in the Devil's Picturebook... The same three cards keep appearing again and again, but each time it is done very uniquely, and the routine isn't boring even though it's very long.
If you do an ACR with 8 moves, and all 8 are the card going from middle to top, it will be boring. But if the first time it appears on the top, the second time on the buttom, third time in your pocket, fourth time with a shapeshifter color change, fifth time under the box, sixth time inside the box, seventh time it jumps out from the packet and in the eighth it dissapears completely from the deck... Well, it will be interesting, cause you can surprise your audience every single time.
Watch Derren Brown do a very long three cards routine in the Devil's Picturebook... The same three cards keep appearing again and again, but each time it is done very uniquely, and the routine isn't boring even though it's very long.
Your imaginary ACR routine is terrible. It doesn't follow the standard plot at all.
I feel that Medifro and Morgician gave some very good pointers to you; I would suggest taking what they said to heart.
Best of wishes,
Ben
The minimum is at least 4.
2 standard rises to establish rhythm
1 "test condition" rise
1 Closer (pop up move, ultimate ambiton etc)
I'd say start with that and then eventually add some phases as you find ones that you like.
The main point is that each phase is more impossible (stricter conditions) and THAT is what keeps it from being repetitive.
I'd recommend picking up Crash Course 2, or Extremely Ambitious if your more advanced.
2 standard rises to establish rhythm
1 "test condition" rise
1 Closer (pop up move, ultimate ambiton etc)
I'd say start with that and then eventually add some phases as you find ones that you like.
The main point is that each phase is more impossible (stricter conditions) and THAT is what keeps it from being repetitive.
I'd recommend picking up Crash Course 2, or Extremely Ambitious if your more advanced.
M_dalgashon:
Have you ever tried that routine? I personally think it is an interesting idea, except you need to establish more of a rhythm instead of just having it appear in different places randomly. Like the card
4 rises to the top
3 travels to the pocket
1 goes to the mouth
and then the deck vanishes, (similar to in the Bill Malone video)
What do you think?
Have you ever tried that routine? I personally think it is an interesting idea, except you need to establish more of a rhythm instead of just having it appear in different places randomly. Like the card
4 rises to the top
3 travels to the pocket
1 goes to the mouth
and then the deck vanishes, (similar to in the Bill Malone video)
What do you think?
In my opinion, your ACR needs to be very versatile.
If you are performing the ACR in a close-up show situation, where there is little personal interaction with individuals from the audience, then a set ACR is best. However, if you are performing the ACR in a walk-around / strolling / street magic situation, then you need to be prepared to chance the routine based off of the audiences' reactions / questions / commentes , etc...
What I mean by this is... is your audience feeling a slower paced, "watch closely to see where the magic happens!!!" type audience, then slowly presented ACR with fewer phases is obviously the best. Whereas, if the audience is totally exploding at every small thing that you do... then Milk that!! Do a lot of fast paced, slightly different, misdirected phrases with patter such as (SEE!! it comes back in the small amount of time it took you to scream at the top of your lungs and destroy my ear drums!)
If you can learn to adapt your ACR style / phases, and know when to end, when to misdirect, know when to do a tilt instead of a pass / palm, etc... or if you know when to do it with the card face up, etc... you will have more various reactions, and you will be able to ensure the best reactions each time.
My ACR in street magic / strolling situations, is hardly ever the same. However, I do base it off of one base routine, with many different possibilities to change it around.
If you are performing the ACR in a close-up show situation, where there is little personal interaction with individuals from the audience, then a set ACR is best. However, if you are performing the ACR in a walk-around / strolling / street magic situation, then you need to be prepared to chance the routine based off of the audiences' reactions / questions / commentes , etc...
What I mean by this is... is your audience feeling a slower paced, "watch closely to see where the magic happens!!!" type audience, then slowly presented ACR with fewer phases is obviously the best. Whereas, if the audience is totally exploding at every small thing that you do... then Milk that!! Do a lot of fast paced, slightly different, misdirected phrases with patter such as (SEE!! it comes back in the small amount of time it took you to scream at the top of your lungs and destroy my ear drums!)
If you can learn to adapt your ACR style / phases, and know when to end, when to misdirect, know when to do a tilt instead of a pass / palm, etc... or if you know when to do it with the card face up, etc... you will have more various reactions, and you will be able to ensure the best reactions each time.
My ACR in street magic / strolling situations, is hardly ever the same. However, I do base it off of one base routine, with many different possibilities to change it around.
Look, guys, you don't have to take what I've said literally... I don't really do routines like that, and I didn't mean he should do a routine where the card just appear in different place. Patter and rhythm is always needed and that goes without saying, I just tried to stress the point that an ACR can be very long and still interesting if you find ways to surprise them each time.
Of course the card doesn't just appear in random places, a magician isn't some guy who can do neat sleights really quickly. I just tried to give some examples of the many possibilities you have with an ACR.
Of course the card doesn't just appear in random places, a magician isn't some guy who can do neat sleights really quickly. I just tried to give some examples of the many possibilities you have with an ACR.