Is it just me or is the pass overrated?

Apr 9, 2019
79
29
I feel that these days people are no more interested in being mystified but are more interested in trying to figure out how the trick is done.
They are constantly burning your hands and will never look away from the deck.
So, I personally feel that the pass is pretty bad.
There are so many better ways like the Allerton control which I think is highly underrated.
I don't understand why no one likes/talks about/uses the Allerton control.
It is simple, deceiving, and is much easier to perform.
 
Jun 18, 2019
540
293
20
West Bengal, India
I feel that these days people are no more interested in being mystified but are more interested in trying to figure out how the trick is done.
You feel so because you're a magician. There are plenty of people (even magicians sometimes) who would see a trick, be as amazed as if they saw the Holy Grail, and yet not strive to find out how it's done by looking through books and/or asking people how it was done in forums ( ;) ).

They are constantly burning your hands and will never look away from the deck
Refine your handling. You might be doing something that is making them burn your hands. The audience doesn't burn your hands unless:

a) You've done something suspicious.
b) That moment in the trick seems like the climax-moment.
c) They were in the 'power' position in the group (happens with a group of strangers or even friends, classmates, colleagues) and you're 'stealing' their attention. (It has never happened to me, touch wood! Or maybe because I've studied in an all-girls, convent school all my life, ha ha!)

I'll say this, sometimes people look at me so much just because I'm continuing my patter in the midst of my actions with a deck, that I myself have to explicitly tell them to look at the deck! :D Ah such sweet souls...

Jokes apart, I've also had people burn my hands and every single time I've found the reason to be the above 3.

There might genuinely be people who want to figure out how something is done without even seeing it once from a to z, but that's such a small percentage of people that they are negligible. Even if I want to figure out something, at least I have to know what's going to happen, otherwise I might be thrown off by red herrings!

There are so many better ways like the Allerton control which I think is highly underrated.
I don't understand why no one likes/talks about/uses the Allerton control.
It is simple, deceiving, and is much easier to perform.
You know which control is simple, deceiving, and is much easier to perform?

The double undercut.

Fun story:-

When I was 11, I developed this habit of 'inventing' moves, more than half of which already existed. For example, I 'invented' the classic palm of coins without knowing that it was the classic palm which has existed for thousands of years now (read: 101 reasons why you should know the basics before inventing). More importantly, I invented something called 'Mohana's Control' which was BASICALLY having a key or a force card and then spreading through the deck with the faces towards you, looking for your spectator's card, while using your patter to engage them and then JUST CUTTING THEIR CARD TO THE TOP.

You know what's MORE surprising? That people. Actually. Bought. It.

Rather than thinking about how dumb I was, ask yourself why we even need controls if we can just place someone's card to the top! My point is, as I said, all controls have their pros and cons.

Why the Allerton Control? Why not use the Double Undercut all the time, because most people don't even mind you cutting the deck whenever you want?

I like the pass. I agree that it's overrated but I just like it. Personal bias. However I also agree that the pass is an important technique and has, again, it's own pros and cons. We can't really discard any sleight in that manner, unless it's absolutely, completely useless. We can however, choose not to learn it. :)
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
2,945
More importantly, I invented something called 'Mohana's Control' which was BASICALLY having a key or a force card and then spreading through the deck with the faces towards you, looking for your spectator's card, while using your patter to engage them and then JUST CUTTING THEIR CARD TO THE TOP.

You just described a method used by one of the most famous people in magic. Goes back to that whole "the simple moves are what professionals use" thing. (Kudos for figuring it out on your own)

I feel that these days people are no more interested in being mystified but are more interested in trying to figure out how the trick is done.

I find this to be true in two instances -
1) You're performing for magicians. Particularly new-ish magicians, or magicians with fragile egos who feel like not knowing a secret somehow makes them lesser.

Or

2) You're making the performance seem like a puzzle or challenge to figure out the method. This often happens when one's main source of learning is YouTube as those tutorials never really touch on how to perform well, they just show the mechanics as if that's the magic.

The Pass isn't over-rated, per se - but I do think it's over used. When appropriate it does a job that other sleights don't do as well. The problem being that it's used in situations where it's not the best choice.

History lesson! The pass was King of Controls for so long because cards used to be lacquered cardboard. They didn't glide across each other like they do now. So all those fancy controls where you slip a card out of the middle of the deck and move it somewhere else - couldn't happen. So ye olde conjurors had to do moves that were cuts or otherwise separating the deck to get cards where they needed them. Or they just palmed it and placed it where they needed it.

So, when one needs to retain the order of a significant number of cards and control those to the top or bottom of the deck, the pass is a good move to use. If one is just controlling one card, there's many better options in almost all cases.

If people are burning your hands, then look to your performance first. Try to figure out if something you're saying is making them care more about the method than the experience of magic.
 
Apr 9, 2019
79
29
When I said that people are always burning my hands, I was basically referring to my friends, whose chief objective is to figure out the trick. They just won't look away from the deck and my hands. They know that the patter is just distraction. So the Allerton control just suits my needs. Furthermore, I've never ever seen anyone use the Allerton control. Why is that?
Is it because they think it is too easy and just want people to know that they can do tougher moves or what? I just can't find a flaw in the Allerton control. I just got to know about the control yesterday, and wondered why I spent so much in practising the pass.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
2,945
If they are able to believe the patter is just a distraction, then it just might be just a distraction - ie: meaningless fluff that doesn't actually add anything to the performance.

Personally, I would say that those people are ruined as an audience pool and you should just stop performing for them. It will end up training you to perform in a very specific way that won't serve your purposes outside of that group.

I have no idea why the control isn't more popular. Personally I'm not a fan of the construction of it. I'm more for direct controls myself.
 
Jun 18, 2019
540
293
20
West Bengal, India
Is it because they think it is too easy and just want people to know that they can do tougher moves or what?
I asked you the same thing. Why the Allerton Control? Why not the double undercut?

When I said that people are always burning my hands, I was basically referring to my friends, whose chief objective is to figure out the trick.
Hmn... see, my first guess when something like this happens is to always search in my performance style for the faults. But you're the one experiencing this, if you're confident that your style is cent percent okay and yet these friends of yours are doing what they are, just don't perform for them. This sort of thing isn't unheard of. Now you make me thank the gods that my friends don't do this! :D
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,840
279
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I feel that these days people are no more interested in being mystified but are more interested in trying to figure out how the trick is done.
They are constantly burning your hands and will never look away from the deck.
So, I personally feel that the pass is pretty bad.
There are so many better ways like the Allerton control which I think is highly underrated.
I don't understand why no one likes/talks about/uses the Allerton control.
It is simple, deceiving, and is much easier to perform.

I agree in someway.. because having a great pass, takes time... but if the audience you have are constantly trying to catch you.. there is a problem with your presentation..
 
Sep 20, 2009
445
83
I would say the Classic Pass... yes.. in the way that some people obsess about making it "invisible" and their entire practice is them in a mirror or a camera and it shrinks the entire "space" of their focus and performance, so in a live situation the entire "focus" is shrunken down to this small enclosed space/vision

the dribble pass or even a spread pass can be done in a more natural situation without as much.... tension or focus

but, if you need to control one card.. just control one card you don't need to control half the pack...
 

JoshL8

Elite Member
Aug 5, 2017
409
393
WA state USA
From the peanut gallery here but....if your friends know your patter is a distraction maybe it’s because your performance differs from your usual self. I am assuming your doing a persona and not a character, meaning your performing “you” is a version of you cranked up to 11 rather than a totally different character.

It is possible your friends can probably tell when you are switching modes more easily than strangers or acquaintances would notice. This type of group can be difficult to perform for, I have some family I don’t perform for due to similar reasons that you are experiencing. It could also be a sign your persona or performances are not natural. My wife is hardcore on my hands looking unnatural and that’s been good for me.

Figuring out which of the possibilities is correct seems important to avoid what TheWitchDoc is cautioning against about tailoring your routines to where they aren’t useful for other groups.

As for the pass being overrated...I think it’s just a technical achievement that mistakenly gets used as a yardstick to measure overall card prowess.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
2,945
Most of my family has never seen me perform magic, hypnosis, or mentalism. Only sideshow and fire. I vastly prefer to perform for strangers.
 
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