It's Reality for ya...

Hey guys, a few days ago I thought I was a well seasoned flourisher. But yesterday I found out that I know nothing of flourishing. Having trilogy and learning pandora doesn't help you at all in flourishing skills. It's not useful at all and I'm suprised I did not realize this earlier.

So, I think one week ago I posted a review on Handlordz for the Trilogy-Flourishes. Jerry Cestowski responded and told me that Pandora, J5, and so on look the same, and he pointed out a good reason. "The farther you sit from the stage, the less you can see, with sybil like flourishes."

I didn't believe him at first, but yesterday I learned what he was talking about.

So yesterday, I was flourishing and began to realize that I had a weak foundation and I only knew limited amounts of flourishes. I mean, I have a VERY WEAK structure of flourishing. I'm going to pick up the Encyclopedia soon and stop toying around with flourishes such as Pandora for the reason that the legendary Flourishman pointed out.

I am now to practice more and more each day, solidifying my foundation. I might not be on Theory11 anymore for quite some time. Maybe once a week or once a month, because computers distract you.

For all you people who don't have the Encyclopedia, GET IT! Because without it, your moves are limited and your structure is weak.

See you guys soon,
Peace.
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
You just got brainwashed....


Man, I for example, I do flourishes BECAUSE I EFFING ENJOY THEM, do you actually intend to arm a stage show out of flourishes? if you enjoy doing the J5 go ahead and practice it, jesus....


Sorry to bring you down man, but Jerry's opinion its biased...


Just practice the things that you enjoy, there its not a rule to "what to practice and what not to practice."


jesus.


BTW, I suggest that you try to be a little more humble in your next posts.
 
Sep 1, 2007
409
1
California
Really? Just because one person says something, doesn't mean you have to listen to him. So what if he doesn't like cuts. To people at HL/SH if you do cuts, you a "Kut-Kiddie" It's automatically biased towards anyone who does cuts. Do what you want, NOT what some people (no matter how "legendary" they are) say you should do.

You sound like you know what your talking about too, "For all you people who don't have the Encyclopedia, GET IT! Because without it, your moves are limited and your structure is weak." When you haven't even read the book itself.

I understand your a beginner, and you are easy to persuade, but still. There are plenty of things I could explain, but you will learn as you get into flourishing more.
 
You just got brainwashed....


Man, I for example, I do flourishes BECAUSE I EFFING ENJOY THEM, do you actually intend to arm a stage show out of flourishes? if you enjoy doing the J5 go ahead and practice it, jesus....


Sorry to bring you down man, but Jerry's opinion its biased...


Just practice the things that you enjoy, there its not a rule to "what to practice and what not to practice."


jesus.


BTW, I suggest that you try to be a little more humble in your next posts.

I'm not going to do a stage, but I need to get the EOPCF before I do the "fun" stuff.
 
You just got brainwashed....


Man, I for example, I do flourishes BECAUSE I EFFING ENJOY THEM, do you actually intend to arm a stage show out of flourishes? if you enjoy doing the J5 go ahead and practice it, jesus....
When devo made xcm an artform on it's own it's main purpose was for live performances. You can do whatevder you want, but people who want to perform this stuff need to know the right variety for there performances.


Sorry to bring you down man, but Jerry's opinion its biased...
How so? He's a proffesional xcmer and has been doing xcm for more than 25 years. He gave magiclemonbird some useful advice.


Really? Just because one person says something, doesn't mean you have to listen to him.
If you read his post he says that at first he didn't care what jerry said till he actually experienced the problem.



So what if he doesn't like cuts. To people at HL/SH if you do cuts, you a "Kut-Kiddie"
Jerry has many sections in his book about cuts. One handed, two handed, etc. Not once did he mention that jerry said he hates cuts. What jerry said was to use a little more variety. Laymen don't really see a difference between two hand cuts that look the same. O and the kut kiddie thing is more of a name to descirbe you as a person that has limited skills( which is mostly people who work soley on to hand cuts).




You sound like you know what your talking about too, "For all you people who don't have the Encyclopedia, GET IT! Because without it, your moves are limited and your structure is weak." When you haven't even read the book itself.
The EOPCF is the Expert at the card table for flourishes. It's something that everyone recommends.



I understand your a beginner, and you are easy to persuade, but still. There are plenty of things I could explain, but you will learn as you get into flourishing more.
He wasn't persuaded. He realized it for himself.
 
Sep 1, 2007
409
1
California
If you read his post he says that at first he didn't care what jerry said till he actually experienced the problem.

But in the end he still went with Jerry's opinion, no? I don't know how you can "experience" the problem. He even says he isn't going to do stage stuff.



Jerry has many sections in his book about cuts. One handed, two handed, etc. Not once did he mention that jerry said he hates cuts. What jerry said was to use a little more variety. Laymen don't really see a difference between two hand cuts that look the same. O and the kut kiddie thing is more of a name to descirbe you as a person that has limited skills( which is mostly people who work soley on to hand cuts).

I never said Jerry didn't have cuts in his book, I know that. But people from HL/Sh have seen a person do one cut, and automatically assume they only do cuts.



The EOPCF is the Expert at the card table for flourishes. It's something that everyone recommends.

I never said it wasn't good. It's a great book, yes. But seems out of place that he suddenly is endorsing this book just after something Jerry told him

He wasn't persuaded. He realized it for himself.

He didn't realize anything. He went over to HL and gave a review. Than Jerry started to persuade him why he should stop and learn stuff from his book.
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
When devo made xcm an artform on it's own it's main purpose was for live performances. You can do whatevder you want, but people who want to perform this stuff need to know the right variety for there performances.
.

Agreed.

How so? He's a proffesional xcmer and has been doing xcm for more than 25 years. He gave magiclemonbird some useful advice.
.

All that site it's biased, I took a look of the forums rules there..:

RULE #2 - No talking about/promoting of people or companies that steal moves/ideas from our artists/affiliated companies. Also promotion of those that deffamate and make/spred lies about our companies are also not allowed. We will not give these people or companies free advertising on our forums. How do you know who is and who isn't stealing moves/spreading lies/hating? We've blocked certain words from our boards, so if you see **** where you typed, then you will know. If you see the ***, then please go back and edit your post and leave them out in future posts. There will be others that aren't blocked, but you'll get a pm explaining it if you promote them. You'll get a warning, but if you continue, then you will be banned. Those that continue to type after they see the **** will automatically be banned.


That's way too much attention if you ask me... If they would really want to promote the XCM as an artform, they should allow all types of flourishing, not bash them and criticise them of "Unoriginal" or "Robbed".


If I were to promote music as a whole, I shoudl promote it with all his variants, country, metal, pop etc.... not only the things that "I" believe are important.


If you read his post he says that at first he didn't care what jerry said till he actually experienced the problem.

Please, re-read his post:

"The farther you sit from the stage, the less you can see, with sybil like flourishes."

I didn't believe him at first, but yesterday I learned what he was talking about.

So yesterday, I was flourishing and began to realize that I had a weak foundation and I only knew limited amounts of flourishes. I mean, I have a VERY WEAK structure of flourishing. I'm going to pick up the Encyclopedia soon and stop toying around with flourishes such as Pandora for the reason that the legendary Flourishman pointed out.


Experience the problem? Jerry its talking about the audience point of view of the Sybil like flourishes, Magic Lemon said that he realised that he had a "weak" foundation in flourishes, they are talking completely different things there, I dont get how can MLB (Magic Lemon Bird) experienced the problem that Jerry its talking about.


Jerry has many sections in his book about cuts. One handed, two handed, etc. Not once did he mention that jerry said he hates cuts. What jerry said was to use a little more variety. Laymen don't really see a difference between two hand cuts that look the same. O and the kut kiddie thing is more of a name to descirbe you as a person that has limited skills( which is mostly people who work soley on to hand cuts).

I have seen the book, I wouldn't call those cuts "two handed cuts", most of them are just deck twirls, flipping packets or charlier variations using two hands....

He wasn't persuaded. He realized it for himself.

MLB its 12 years old, I still remember when he came to this site for the first time:

"Jesus! the buck twins are sooooooo awesome!!! Im learning all they're cuts right now!!!"

Then the andrei era came in...

"woooaaaooo, I just love the style that Andrei has, its so awesome, im learning all his cuts just now, I just dont get why Handlords bash him, he is full of awesome.."


Then the HL era took place...well just read his above post.


Get my point?
 
Sep 20, 2008
1,112
3
Because Flourishing cant really be emphasised on stage unless there's a cam pointing towards you.

I think there was a convention where the Bucks performed their flourishes, and didnt quite make an impact- They were confident about their Flourishes and made an announcement to watch them do their thing backstage instead. (Close up i presume?)

The details are sketchy, but i definitely read that somewhere. cant remember which convention, but it definitely happened. Think it was BP09. Not sure.
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
Because Flourishing cant really be emphasised on stage unless there's a cam pointing towards you.

I think there was a convention where the Bucks performed their flourishes, and didnt quite make an impact- They were confident about their Flourishes and made an announcement to watch them do their thing backstage instead. (Close up i presume?)

The details are sketchy, but i definitely read that somewhere. cant remember which convention, but it definitely happened. Think it was BP09. Not sure.

I read the same thing, but it was about their tricks, not their flourishes.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,005
3
yeah thats what sinful is thinking of. I heard they got a standing-O when they performed their flourishes for a bunch of magicians which apparantly is rare b/c DBsquared doesnt perform much.

Heres the thing, learning 7 different molecules or a 000.327.0411 or whatever isn't going to help a ton but it certainly won't hurt. DnD gets about 1000 kids coming up to them going "do pandora. do pandora. can you do pandora?" which sounds occasionally really funny if a kid has a kim-jong-ill accent.

so it is popular but you should learn other stuff for two reasons:

1 because its cool

2 so you can learn conceptual foundations to make up your own sh*t instead of copying someone else
 
Agreed.



All that site it's biased, I took a look of the forums rules there..:

RULE #2 - No talking about/promoting of people or companies that steal moves/ideas from our artists/affiliated companies. Also promotion of those that deffamate and make/spred lies about our companies are also not allowed. We will not give these people or companies free advertising on our forums. How do you know who is and who isn't stealing moves/spreading lies/hating? We've blocked certain words from our boards, so if you see **** where you typed, then you will know. If you see the ***, then please go back and edit your post and leave them out in future posts. There will be others that aren't blocked, but you'll get a pm explaining it if you promote them. You'll get a warning, but if you continue, then you will be banned. Those that continue to type after they see the **** will automatically be banned.


That's way too much attention if you ask me... If they would really want to promote the XCM as an artform, they should allow all types of flourishing, not bash them and criticise them of "Unoriginal" or "Robbed".


If I were to promote music as a whole, I shoudl promote it with all his variants, country, metal, pop etc.... not only the things that "I" believe are important.




Please, re-read his post:




Experience the problem? Jerry its talking about the audience point of view of the Sybil like flourishes, Magic Lemon said that he realised that he had a "weak" foundation in flourishes, they are talking completely different things there, I dont get how can MLB (Magic Lemon Bird) experienced the problem that Jerry its talking about.




I have seen the book, I wouldn't call those cuts "two handed cuts", most of them are just deck twirls, flipping packets or charlier variations using two hands....



MLB its 12 years old, I still remember when he came to this site for the first time:

"Jesus! the buck twins are sooooooo awesome!!! Im learning all they're cuts right now!!!"

Then the andrei era came in...

"woooaaaooo, I just love the style that Andrei has, its so awesome, im learning all his cuts just now, I just dont get why Handlords bash him, he is full of awesome.."


Then the HL era took place...well just read his above post.


Get my point?

Yep, I don't really like De'vo, but I respect Jerry. Andrei is awesome, and I got banned from HL because of saying his name. I mean De'vo just has grudges. That's why I don't go to HL anymore, and I NEVER had an HL era. I'm still in the Andrei era :D. But to be serious, I'm going to advance in my Cardistry, by the EOPCF
 
May 31, 2008
1,914
0
I flourish, but I flourish incorrectly. I don't care, it's fun and it entertains laymen. Flourishing is all about making you look skillful to laymen (most of the time) it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do it fluently.
 
Sep 20, 2008
1,112
3
Heres the thing, learning 7 different molecules or a 000.327.0411 or whatever isn't going to help a ton but it certainly won't hurt. DnD gets about 1000 kids coming up to them going "do pandora. do pandora. can you do pandora?" which sounds occasionally really funny if a kid has a kim-jong-ill accent.

Oh man, you shouldve been there when they went to the Davenport lecture in england. i made SUURE that the first thing they heard. As they walked through the doors, i pointed and shouted at dave : "OH MY GOD, DO PANDORA"

Man, he didnt look pleased. :)
 
Jun 6, 2008
20
0
do what you like

dude, do what you like. i have been doing cardistry for 18 months now. most of the stuff i do is from dnd. i think they are cool, and i like that kind of flourish. may be i just don't like fan. it is all right. some people think doing pandora over and over again is stupid, i think it is cool, that is why i do it. i do flourish for myself. plus, i don't think that much people would pay you to see you flourish, they would rather see you pull a rabbit out of your hat.

DO what is right for yourself, weather it is doing j5 and pandora over and over and over again, or listen to flourish man and get the basic down.

Good luck
 
May 8, 2008
360
0
England
Man, I for example, I do flourishes BECAUSE I EFFING ENJOY THEM, do you actually intend to arm a stage show out of flourishes? if you enjoy doing the J5 go ahead and practice it, jesus....

Sorry to bring you down man, but Jerry's opinion its biased...

Just practice the things that you enjoy, there its not a rule to "what to practice and what not to practice."

^Very good post. :)

It's subjective, to me I flourish because it's fun and the variety of cuts I saw DnD and Madison do attracted me to flourishing. While some may say these 'all look the same' I don't think so, I'd rather see this than endless armspreads or charliers with rotating hands. Also I find it's more fun to practice a variety of cuts.

My point is that whatever you enjoy is what you should do. I know I'll never really do anything 'handlordz-like', but it's cool, I enjoy the Buck style more. Someone else may be the opposite, it doesn't matter, you should get what you want out of your flourishing.

And, for arguments sake, I don't think that not having the EOPCF will give you a 'weak foundation' for flourishing.
 
I'm just going to be for real.

I've had the "Handlordz Era" in the beginning. That's because I started out with Xtreme Beginnerz.

But now, I'm in the "Kut-Kiddies era." Do you know why?

The one handed/two handed cuts concept is FAR more expandable than arm spreads and fans. Sure they're just "cuts", but think of how many different concepts of cuts have been created compared to armspreads. Fans on the other hand, have evolved as well.

But I'm not going to be flame the other "style" just because I'm a "Kut-Kiddy." I'm going to say that I chose this style because I like it better than the other style.

At least that's how my swag rolls.

;D
 
Just to clarify, I've never been in the "Handlordz Era!!!". I have to work on my basics though.

^Very good post. :)

It's subjective, to me I flourish because it's fun and the variety of cuts I saw DnD and Madison do attracted me to flourishing. While some may say these 'all look the same' I don't think so, I'd rather see this than endless armspreads or charliers with rotating hands. Also I find it's more fun to practice a variety of cuts.

My point is that whatever you enjoy is what you should do. I know I'll never really do anything 'handlordz-like', but it's cool, I enjoy the Buck style more. Someone else may be the opposite, it doesn't matter, you should get what you want out of your flourishing.

And, for arguments sake, I don't think that not having the EOPCF will give you a 'weak foundation' for flourishing.

Yeah, I was a little mad when Jerry said they all looked the same.

I love all you guys! You guys are giving me worderful advice!!!
 
May 3, 2008
864
3
33
Singapore
www.youtube.com
do whatever you want.
the only important things are that you show respect to people who give you sound advice,
do not assume you are in the top tier of flourishing when you can do a J5,
and whatever you end up doing, do it well. dont post half assed videos of poorly edited ripoffs.

cheers and good luck.
 
May 3, 2008
618
1
Jerry's advice isn't all bad. I do mostly cuts as well, but I do think that you shouldn't do only cuts, only fans, springs, spreads, etc. It's important to learn everything to be good all around even if it is just the basics. Of course, you should learn what you like and what you think is cool.
 
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