Just a beginner

[Orin10]

I just have a question for all of you. I got my start in card magic in January of this year. I started out trying to learn as many tricks as possible, but soon realized that it wasn't the way to go. I decided to find a few tricks that I really enjoyed performing and even created one (I think) using the techniques that I accured. I have come to a point, however, where I have hit a wall. I have been watching videos of different card flourishes and I even have Dan and Dave Buck's Trilogy. The problem is that I can't do any of the flourishes because my hands are just too small. In fact I can barely do any really effective color changes or tricks on the Trilogy because my hands are too small.

This brings me to my point. I want to ask how you, whoever reads this, feel about card flourishes. Are they absolutely crucial to a card magician? Or are they just a way to show off? Sometimes I feel as if I should just stop because I haven't been able to do any of these crazy card cuts.

I feel that connecting with the people I'm performing for is the most important, and I can do that pretty well without the card cuts. I just want to know what you think. Will it make me a better magician; being able to do cuts? Or will attemping to learn them dampen my routine and unimpress the people I'm performing for?

 

[lachomagician]

Well, flourishes are a great thing on their own. You can become a straight up card man and do only flourishes. If you enjoy doing your magic, keep going with it, flourishes can be used to enhance your effects. For example, if you can fairly lose a card in the the deck, how about you lose it, shuffle the deck simply once and throw in a flourishy cut? People may still think the magic is happening. It depends also in what you like. Do you like how these cuts look? If you do, and would like to do them yourself then go for it! Maybe you will do them for people or maybe you will just use them to relax and have something interesting to learn. I think flourishes can enhance your magic or be amazing on their own. It is up to you to keep them separate or incorporate the two. Remember, to your audience, one double lift can seem like a whirlwind of magic. So as long as you are being creative and entertaining there is no telling what you may amaze them with. Also, how about doing a trick, and while you are thinking about what tricks to do next you do a nice short flourishy cut then get ready for the next trick? just tell them that you enjoy playing with the cards and that you are glad you can bring them some enjoyment. Don't forget, we are here to entertain, that should be our main aim.

 

[citizen6k]

I also am new to magic and have been working with the trilogy. For me, magic is the focus and flourishing enhances it. I think about it this way, if I'm nervous about performing a trick because the spectator is a skeptic and is 'burning' my hands, I think its highly effective to throw a couple of nice but quick flourishes just before you perform the trick itself. What that does is show that you know what your doing with a deck of cards and the spectator thinks 'OK this guy is a pro, I won't be able to catch him so I won't try so hard...I'll just sit back and enjoy it.' In other words it disarms them and everyone enjoys the magic more as a result. I also use the flourishing in the trilogy in practice to get more confident and comfortable with cads in general... As for small hands, I'm sure with enough practice you'll be able to adjust the flourishes to fit your hand size....I hope this helps.

 

[Orin10]

I love the look of the flourishes. It amazes me to see people do them and I would love to do them myself. I do incorporate some shuffles into my card tricks, such as Helix cut and a Madonna cut that I know. I'm pretty good with those because they were the first ones that I learned. For their simplicty, they look really good... to me atleast. Not sure how you feel. But yeah, it's the really complicated stuff that I don't get. Maybe I'm just impatient. How much do you generally practice on a flourish before you can get it?

 

[Shodan]

You

ABSOLUTELY

DO NOT

need to be able to do flourishes to be a great card magician.

Forget the fancy one handed cuts, multiple packet crazy things and anything falling broadly into that category. Pick up Greg Wilson's Double Take DVD and start from the beginning; fantastic, mind boggling magic taught from the ground up. Pick up Card College vol. 1 by Roberto Giobbi and learn the foundations of card magic. Don't be put off! Flourishes are neat, and over time you will figure them out, IF they suit your style. There are oodles of professional card magicians out there who do not flourish/XCM - I'm one of them.

All the best,
David.

 

[coin_aholic]

I just have a question for all of you. I got my start in card magic in January of this year. I started out trying to learn as many tricks as possible, but soon realized that it wasn't the way to go. I decided to find a few tricks that I really enjoyed performing and even created one (I think) using the techniques that I accured. I have come to a point, however, where I have hit a wall. I have been watching videos of different card flourishes and I even have Dan and Dave Buck's Trilogy. The problem is that I can't do any of the flourishes because my hands are just too small. In fact I can barely do any really effective color changes or tricks on the Trilogy because my hands are too small.

This brings me to my point. I want to ask how you, whoever reads this, feel about card flourishes. Are they absolutely crucial to a card magician? Or are they just a way to show off? Sometimes I feel as if I should just stop because I haven't been able to do any of these crazy card cuts.

I feel that connecting with the people I'm performing for is the most important, and I can do that pretty well without the card cuts. I just want to know what you think. Will it make me a better magician; being able to do cuts? Or will attemping to learn them dampen my routine and unimpress the people I'm performing for?

To start I have a question for you....
Age, how old are you man?
beleaive it or not age plays a big factor in magic, Im not going to get to in-depth however the younger you are, the smaller your hands tend to be...

and when you asked If fancy flourishes and cuts are "CRUCIAL" (im sorry) but I laughed. not a rued falling of my chair pee my self laugh but Im pretty sure the answer is selfexplanitory.

so no, I find that if you can hanlde cards like a god, you suck....no offence to all the pros, but MAGIC and FLUORISHES are two TOTALY DIFFERENT hobbie/jobs.
Magic, you know and flourihes are just a way to entertain your self and have people watch you if they wish, so no its not a must to know how to do.

im good with cards however I cannot flourish, i can only handle them and cut so take it from me and many other, if you can spread the cards and a few slieghts your set.

as for colour changes...this is hard to determin, as a lot of them are faily easy in regards to hand size, you only have to know how and then see what you lok like in the mirror.

 

[Orin10]

To start I have a question for you....
Age, how old are you man?
beleaive it or not age plays a big factor in magic, Im not going to get to in-depth however the younger you are, the smaller your hands tend to be...

and when you asked If fancy flourishes and cuts are "CRUCIAL" (im sorry) but I laughed. not a rued falling of my chair pee my self laugh but Im pretty sure the answer is selfexplanitory.

so no, I find that if you can hanlde cards like a god, you suck....no offence to all the pros, but MAGIC and FLUORISHES are two TOTALY DIFFERENT hobbie/jobs.
Magic, you know and flourihes are just a way to entertain your self and have people watch you if they wish, so no its not a must to know how to do.

im good with cards however I cannot flourish, i can only handle them and cut so take it from me and many other, if you can spread the cards and a few slieghts your set.

as for colour changes...this is hard to determin, as a lot of them are faily easy in regards to hand size, you only have to know how and then see what you lok like in the mirror.

To answer your question about age... I'm 19 years old. I don't know how that affects it, because I think my hands are pretty much done growing. Maybe not. Thanks for the response!

 

[harapanong]

Some things to note here:

Small hand's don't matter. If you can hold a deck of cards comfortably, you can do magic, and you can do flourishes.

Flourishes aren't going to be crucial to your card magic. It's a personal choice whether you want to learn them or not. In my opinion, what's more important would be your general card handling - whether you can hold a deck of cards in your hand neatly, spread them nicely and execute your sleights effortlessly and naturally. I never agreed with the notion that you should handle cards sloppily to denounce any thought that you are using sleight of hand - that's pretty much bull****.

On the other hand, flourishes do help you improve that "general card handling" aspect of your magic. It's not the only way to improve card handling, but you can try it out. If you don't like doing flourishes, no problem. It's not crucial to learn it, it still depends on your personal style and choice.

- harapan. magic!

 

[harapanong]

Gatitoxxx:

One double lift is not going to seem like a "whirlwind of magic" to your audience. Please.

In my humble opinion, using a flourishy cut to mix up a deck isn't the correct way to integrate flourishes and magic together.

You all have the Trilogy, right? For those who have it, watch Dan and Dave's Tricks DVD. Do they have any Madonnas in their tricks? Do they bust out a Pandora in the middle of a trick? NO THEY DON'T.

So why are they known to have their unique brand of "flourishy magic"? Think about it.

Incoporating flourishes into magic... it can be summarised in one word: SUBTLE.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Shodan]

I never agreed with the notion that you should handle cards sloppily to denounce any thought that you are using sleight of hand - that's pretty much bull****.

Tell that to Lennart Green.

 

[harapanong]

I've already told him that, when he was here for a lecture.

His sloppy card handling is for comedic purposes, not to denounce sleight-of-hand.

Darwin Ortiz has my views, if I am not wrong.

Arthur Buckley too.

Many others too.

Arthur Buckley: "I have heard it argued that the more clumsily you do these things, the less the audience will associate the climax of your trick with dexterity. That is true, but don't be foolish enough to think they will believe you a 'Mandrake'."

Again: Flourishes and whatnot, when used in magic, is meant to be SUBTLE. It boils down to proper card handling. Neat, confident card handling. It is to subtly show that the performer/magician can do what he does with complete mastery and not straining to do it.

Do you want to see a magician who drops cards every 5 seconds when performing? I believe not.

I am not saying you should do flourishes, I am saying that as a beginner, you need to start practising proper card handling. How many beginners forget to practise their Mechanic Grips, their Biddle Grips etc?

I'm advocating good card handling here. Not flourishes.

- harapan. magic!

 

[harapanong]

Sorry for a double post, but the "Lennart Green has sloppy card handling too! We should be like that" argument has been used so many times I must comment a bit more.

Mr Green is an amazing man.

Before he starts every show, he PURPOSELY states that he uses "clumsiness to hide skill". Or at least that's what he did when I watched him live. And on videos.

When Lennart Green is doing the Snap Deal sequence, for example; does he hold the deck in his left hand very messily? When he pulls out a bunch of cards from the table, why does he have to give it a little fan?

Don't forget, Mr Green is only ONE example in many others. Even magicians who don't like to use flourishes in magic will have the basic card handling skills. They can hold a deck properly in a good grip. Cards don't fall out. Unlike many beginners.

Mr Green is PURPOSELY dropping cards. Most beginners cannot help but drop cards and hold cards messily. See the difference?

If you call dropping cards, messy packets, unsquared decks of cards in your hands as being "natural" and "enhancing magic's impact"... please enlighten me.

Good card handling makes magic pleasing to the eyes. Simple as that.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Shodan]

Whoa.

I am certainly not one of those people who believes that there is one right, or wrong way to do things. In fact, that was the point of my post I certainly have no intention of copying anybody when it comes to magic, thank you very much (an awful lot to read into one little sentance dontcha think there buddy?).

It takes all sorts to make the world.

 

[Milart]

Whirlwind of magic

Gatitoxxx:

One double lift is not going to seem like a "whirlwind of magic" to your audience. Please.

Actually, to your audience it could easily be the best magic trick they have ever seen, but it won't be because of the sleight of hand involved. If it's the case, it'll be caused by the presentation behind that sleight of hand.

@Orin10: To me, card flourishes aren't crucial to a card magician. I think it's a great way to boost the first impression you give of yourself as a magician, but it won't make you a better magician. If you really enjoy flourishes (such as I do), learn them, practice them and then you can show off with your magic buddies or before getting into the magic itself, perform a little card manipulation for your audience. It's a nice way to get them into a psychomagical state so they are willing to see your performance. Otherwise, why would they have accepted watching some magic?

 

[Orin10]

Actually, to your audience it could easily be the best magic trick they have ever seen, but it won't be because of the sleight of hand involved. If it's the case, it'll be caused by the presentation behind that sleight of hand.

@Orin10: To me, card flourishes aren't crucial to a card magician. I think it's a great way to boost the first impression you give of yourself as a magician, but it won't make you a better magician. If you really enjoy flourishes (such as I do), learn them, practice them and then you can show off with your magic buddies or before getting into the magic itself, perform a little card manipulation for your audience. It's a nice way to get them into a psychomagical state so they are willing to see your performance. Otherwise, why would they have accepted watching some magic?

So yeah, I obviously have a problem with the flourishes. Mostly, I'm probably defeating myself by even thinking that I can't do them. In these last few days of this post I've been trying to figure out ways to adjust Molecule so that my hands can actually do it. It's working fairly well actually but I know it's not the same as the original fourish. Most of you would probably say that's okay cause I need to make things more my own. I think a huge problem for me has been taking the instruction too seriously and trying to do all of the moves exactly the way they are shown rather than performing them in a way that I can actually handle myself.

What I just said there really doesn't have much to do with why I quoted you. I totally agree about the double lift. There have been times where someone who knows I do card magic has approached me and asked me to see something. Not being totally prepared, being the beginner that I am, I simply showed him a card by double lift and immediately changed it in his hand. Simple I know, most might think it is corny, but the reaction that I got from just that minute little trick was amazing. So, I may not know much, I may be new, but I have to agree, even the simplest things can be miracles to a spectator.

 

[Orin10]

Thanks everyone

Sorry to post twice. I just wanted to say thanks for everyone posting what they think about my question. Before I started on the forum I couldn't find anyone around I could really talk to about this stuff. I even figured that I would be booed out of here for even asking a question like I did. But you guys didn't do that and I think you all are awesome for that. Thanks a ton for your feedback.

 

[harapanong]

If the doulble lift is the most amazing miracle that can happen to a spectator, there's really no need for any other trick. Why bother with other tricks when a double lift is all we need?

Please.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Milart]

What I just said there really doesn't have much to do with why I quoted you. I totally agree about the double lift. There have been times where someone who knows I do card magic has approached me and asked me to see something. Not being totally prepared, being the beginner that I am, I simply showed him a card by double lift and immediately changed it in his hand. Simple I know, most might think it is corny, but the reaction that I got from just that minute little trick was amazing. So, I may not know much, I may be new, but I have to agree, even the simplest things can be miracles to a spectator.

Exactly. As you said, even the simplest things can be miracles to spectators willing to see magic.

If the doulble lift is the most amazing miracle that can happen to a spectator, there's really no need for any other trick. Why bother with other tricks when a double lift is all we need?

Please.

- harapan. magic!

I believe Orin10's point was that "even the simplest things can be miracles..." even, but not only. For presentation purposes, I think the double lift it's the most powerful technique, because you can create so much stuff using a DL as a starting point. Just think about it. Whenever Im' at college and somebody asks me for a magic trick, I just variate a double lift. Why not presenting something new? Because I'm still a beginner and I have to go through all the basic techniques, so then I can learn new tricks.

 

[harapanong]

Millart:

Oh okay, I see it now. Thanks.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Milart]

harapanong:

You're welcome.