The madonna is a pain to get down, but after you get it down.... it's more of a pain to make it look good... I've been practicing this 2-3 months straight, I can barely get it down and I'm trying to make it look good. Sybilism got easy really quick for me( I got my style down to it also) the last flare to it is the only problem I have with it. Skater cut and sybil won't be that hard, but when you get to the Leno... hello MORE PROBLEMS!