Magic and Witchcraft

[Antonio Diavolo]

Has anyone actually gotten into witchcraft through magic tricks before? I've heard some people say that magic tricks are a form of low level witchcraft or a "gateway drug" in a sense to actual black magic. Like first you get into card tricks, then tarot cards and Ouija boards and the next thing you know, you're using spells and potions.

I've personally never seen any reason one would go from one to the other. They are almost entirely different from what I can tell. Although, I know some older magicians have utilized this idea in their performances, it was more of a shtick than anything else. I know magicians like Houdini and Randi also became fascinated with the idea of the supernatural, but it was more of a skepticism toward the occult rather than actual interest in performing it.

My local magic shop has even said they've gotten those sort of wiccan witch type people who will come in looking for actual supplies for spells and stuff.

I've even heard people online make the connection between playing cards and gambling or divination with tarot cards due to the imagery on the front and back.

I don't know, but is there any connection whatsoever? Could magic be considered low level witchcraft and will lead into the heavier stuff? As I already said, I personally don't see any connection whatsoever but I was wondering if any more experienced magicians had seen this type of thing before.

By the way, I've even heard some say that the methods magicians use are demons deceiving them into thinking their witchcraft is simple trickery. So while the magician thinks the dove is just coming from his sleeve, the demon pulls it from a portal. This is obviously ridiculous and I don't believe this whatsoever but I thought it was funny the lengths some people will go. Almost every magician video has comments like these.

 

[obrienmagic]

Depends on your definition of witchcraft I guess.... I personally do not believe in any of it so to me it would be the same thing as an illusion as far as my emotional state. I have used a Ouija before and did so because it was fun, not because i thought i was speaking to the dead lol

 

[RealityOne]

The closest connection I've got is that I buy props at a shop that has items for "Wicca, Witchcraft, Shamanism, Santeria, Norse, Asatru, Druidism, Mysticism, Occult, Buddhism, personal spirituality, and many other divine and religious traditions." I'll admit that I don't know enough about those traditions / beliefs and am genuinely interested in learning more. The website has a very "new age"and "spiritual" feel to it - a positive spiriuality rather than a negative, demonic, satanic feel. The irony is that the main thing I purchased is used for a routine talking about Christian prayer (from a mostly theological standpoint, even quoting the Danish theologian Søren Kierkegaard).

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I went the other way around. I studied the occult and even practiced some esoteric systems.

While there's nothing stopping a magician from stumbling onto esoteric knowledge and deciding to take up those practices, it really doesn't happen very often. Though I do believe that is what happened with Jeff McBride. I'm not sure if he was into such things before he started stage magic, but he is definitely into it now.

I know some mentalists who also use believe in "alternative" religions or practice esoteric systems. Some basically maintain two identities - one as a performer, one as an occultist. They publish books on 'real' magic under one name, and perform and publish magic stuff under another. I can think of four off the top of my head.

Honestly, I've never seen someone seriously think a stage magician would use esoteric systems to do their magic, except those crazy YouTube videos that think a card trick is done by demons. I can't even tell if those guys are satire or serious.

The two things used to be intimately linked. Shamans and other ancient holy men types would use what we would now classify as illusions or sleight of hand to enhance their miracle work. Sometimes this was outright fraud, sometimes it was part of the ritual, sometimes it was to induce placebo effects (not that they knew what a placebo was). As time went on more people learned the secrets and some started performing their miracles in the streets (less concerned with being a legitimate holy man). Houdin's usually the one credited with taking magic from the streets to the stage.

Then Houdini made it cool to be a debunker and "skeptic". I put it that way because most people calling themselves skeptics these days are just cynics. These days it seems like magicians are dead set on removing the idea of magic from the world - which baffles me. I do feel like there is a bit of a swing back towards the mystical, though. But that could just be my own lifestyle creating something of an echo chamber of what I like.

Side note: Playing cards as we know them have been used for telling fortunes for significantly longer than Tarot cards. Tarot cards were created for the game, Tarot. The design we're familiar with as playing cards was around, I think, a couple hundred years before Tarot cards were designed, and used to tell fortunes for probably much of that time. I still know people who prefer playing cards for cartomancy. I personally like Lenormand decks.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

I went the other way around. I studied the occult and even practiced some esoteric systems.

While there's nothing stopping a magician from stumbling onto esoteric knowledge and deciding to take up those practices, it really doesn't happen very often. Though I do believe that is what happened with Jeff McBride. I'm not sure if he was into such things before he started stage magic, but he is definitely into it now.

I know some mentalists who also use believe in "alternative" religions or practice esoteric systems. Some basically maintain two identities - one as a performer, one as an occultist. They publish books on 'real' magic under one name, and perform and publish magic stuff under another. I can think of four off the top of my head.

Honestly, I've never seen someone seriously think a stage magician would use esoteric systems to do their magic, except those crazy YouTube videos that think a card trick is done by demons. I can't even tell if those guys are satire or serious.

The two things used to be intimately linked. Shamans and other ancient holy men types would use what we would now classify as illusions or sleight of hand to enhance their miracle work. Sometimes this was outright fraud, sometimes it was part of the ritual, sometimes it was to induce placebo effects (not that they knew what a placebo was). As time went on more people learned the secrets and some started performing their miracles in the streets (less concerned with being a legitimate holy man). Houdin's usually the one credited with taking magic from the streets to the stage.

Then Houdini made it cool to be a debunker and "skeptic". I put it that way because most people calling themselves skeptics these days are just cynics. These days it seems like magicians are dead set on removing the idea of magic from the world - which baffles me. I do feel like there is a bit of a swing back towards the mystical, though. But that could just be my own lifestyle creating something of an echo chamber of what I like.

Side note: Playing cards as we know them have been used for telling fortunes for significantly longer than Tarot cards. Tarot cards were created for the game, Tarot. The design we're familiar with as playing cards was around, I think, a couple hundred years before Tarot cards were designed, and used to tell fortunes for probably much of that time. I still know people who prefer playing cards for cartomancy. I personally like Lenormand decks.

Even though I don't believe in magic or the supernatural, I will somethimes use slightly exaggerated stories of Uri Geller or the infamous Margery the Medium to set up a trick.

 

[CWhite]

I studied the occult and demonology in my youth and early twenties. Taking part in animal sacrifice and such.
I have considered using that knowledge to perform magic. Using that as a basis for a character, which would help with the anxiety.
So yes I've been involved in both umm.. extracurricular activities lol
However what I believe in is irrelevant. I'd rather not be involved in that type of debate.
Great topic. Cheers!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Something I always warn people about when they want to use esoteric scripting - know your stuff. Most of your audiences will never know the difference, but eventually you'll come across someone who will know something about the subject and if you are not consistent with their knowledge and expectations, they will call you out on it.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

Something I always warn people about when they want to use esoteric scripting - know your stuff. Most of your audiences will never know the difference, but eventually you'll come across someone who will know something about the subject and if you are not consistent with their knowledge and expectations, they will call you out on it.

It's not exaggerated to the point of being completely untrue. It's more that I'll just leave out the parts about them being debunked by magicians. Still important to watch out for those who actually know their stuff, as you said.

 

[Justin.Morris]

I used to be Wiccan. It's not as simple as saying that Wiccans are just using simple tricks, but it's more along the lines of a sincere experience, where they are sincerely tricking themselves. Sort of like someone who reads horoscopes and swears they are accurate because they see connections to their life. Mix that with a few true deceivers and people are convinced.
There's much more to it than that, but for the sake of trying to be concise...

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Ceremonial magick is, really, an early form of psychology. If you look into it enough you'll see a lot of parallels to hypnosis and psychotherapy. Delving into the complexities of the occult/esoteric world is definitely way more than I'm willing to do here, though.

 

[Muolidae the Magician]

Has anyone actually gotten into witchcraft through magic tricks before? I've heard some people say that magic tricks are a form of low level witchcraft or a "gateway drug" in a sense to actual black magic. Like first you get into card tricks, then tarot cards and Ouija boards and the next thing you know, you're using spells and potions.

I've personally never seen any reason one would go from one to the other. They are almost entirely different from what I can tell. Although, I know some older magicians have utilized this idea in their performances, it was more of a shtick than anything else. I know magicians like Houdini and Randi also became fascinated with the idea of the supernatural, but it was more of a skepticism toward the occult rather than actual interest in performing it.

My local magic shop has even said they've gotten those sort of wiccan witch type people who will come in looking for actual supplies for spells and stuff.

I've even heard people online make the connection between playing cards and gambling or divination with tarot cards due to the imagery on the front and back.

I don't know, but is there any connection whatsoever? Could magic be considered low level witchcraft and will lead into the heavier stuff? As I already said, I personally don't see any connection whatsoever but I was wondering if any more experienced magicians had seen this type of thing before.

By the way, I've even heard some say that the methods magicians use are demons deceiving them into thinking their witchcraft is simple trickery. So while the magician thinks the dove is just coming from his sleeve, the demon pulls it from a portal. This is obviously ridiculous and I don't believe this whatsoever but I thought it was funny the lengths some people will go. Almost every magician video has comments like these.

Yes; I have.

Yes; I would say magic tricks are a form of "low-level witchcraft", or "Thaumaturgy" as we pagans would say. "Theurgy" is far more complicated. Some more simple names for Thaumaturgy and Theurgy are "Low Magick" (Thaumaturgy) and "High Magick" (Theurgy).

High Magick is much more ceremonial and complicated; reserved for special occasions. Everything must be done precisely; words have to be pronounced perfectly, the materials have to be very specific, and timing must be perfect. There's usually a lot of mathematics, numerology, and astrology involved, and often times involves invoking and summoning deities and other entities.

Low Magick is more focused on the here and now; using your Will to change the world around you. It involves psychic skills which have been honed over years and years of practice. Scrying/Crystal Gazing, Dream Work, Hypnotism/Mesmerism, Extrasensory Perception, Psychometry, Cartomancy, Telekinesis, etc, etc, are all forms of Low Magick.

When a stage magician does something that is seemingly impossible even though perfectly explainable, I would call that "Enchantment" as it's designed to make people feel a sense of ecstasy, wonder, and bafflement; thrusting open the doors of their three tiers of consciousness in a desperate attempt to wrap their heads around what just happened. A well performed magic trick can change a person's whole reality. That's not just magic, it's Magick.




--Muolidae the Magician