Hey everyone surfing the theory11 forums. As a street / close-up magician I usually have a lot of community events, and parties to perform at. The only problem that I have are that people say my prices are too low they are insulting. i usually charge a max of $25 an hour. Others say $50 is a better price. I don't know what to do. I am hoping that people on the forums can help me with this problem. Please leave your comments below and list a price you think I should be charging. The average price that people say that I should use is the one I will use. Thanks.
Magic Pricing
- Thread starter skeryliuk14
- Start date
How many years experience do you have under your belt? Not just flipping cards in your bedroom but actually out in about real world experience dealing with hecklers, high class individuals, drunks, teens that won't' shut up for two seconds...etc.
Pricing depends on the type of event, the duration, how many people are attending, and what your self worth is.
I may charge $75-100 per hour for a strolling gig and then turn around and charge $300-$500 for a big stage show if I have to drive over an hour and back to the venue.
The area and demographics of where you live or are going to be performing also are a factor.
There are a lot of factors in play. Can you give us more info on you?
Pricing depends on the type of event, the duration, how many people are attending, and what your self worth is.
I may charge $75-100 per hour for a strolling gig and then turn around and charge $300-$500 for a big stage show if I have to drive over an hour and back to the venue.
The area and demographics of where you live or are going to be performing also are a factor.
There are a lot of factors in play. Can you give us more info on you?
It varies severely. You do want to see what the going rate is in your area. Usually 75-150$ an hour for walkaround for private parties and restaraunts. For corporate it can go from 250$ and hour and up.
Your age and possible experience aside, don't undercut others and don't charge unless you are sure of your skill level AND entertainment ability. It's not about fooling them but making sure they have a good time. The secret is not getting the booking, but getting repeat bookings.
Your age and possible experience aside, don't undercut others and don't charge unless you are sure of your skill level AND entertainment ability. It's not about fooling them but making sure they have a good time. The secret is not getting the booking, but getting repeat bookings.
Jamie D. Grant did a really good post on this a while back talking about experience, ability, age, etc to define how much you should charge. Obviously it's a guideline and his personal opinion from experience, but I think he delivers a very good and valid point on this subject.
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29040-Rates-2.0-(how-much-to-charge)-by-Jamie-D.-Grant
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29040-Rates-2.0-(how-much-to-charge)-by-Jamie-D.-Grant
Look at the link Matt posted but remember that no matter what people tell you it's best to stay true to yourself and do what you think is right for you. After 6-12 months do a quick review and see if you're making progress. If you're happy with your progress then continue doing what you're doing and raise your rates once a year to match your experience.
If your price is too high you will know because no one will hire you. At that point you know something needs to change. You're still very young so you have plenty of time for trial and error. More than anything, make sure you're having fun.
Sammuel:
Jamie's post is really good and I second the recommendation that you read it.
With that being said, I'm going to ask what I think is the most important question: Should you be charging for performing?
I'll start by saying that I have never seen you perform and have no idea how good a performer you are. But let me ask some questions which will help you decide whether you should be charging for your performance:
1. Do you have an act? For walk-around, that means having at least three sets of three effects that are scripted and presented in a coherent entertaining manner -- it doesn't mean that you have three tricks that you perform while narrating what you are doing (I put this card here, and then it does this). For other performances, it means having a show that is scripted and presented in a coherent and entertaining manner. Let me expand a bit on three of the words I've used:
Scripted - This means that you have thought about, written, revised and rehearsed what you are going to say. Although you have a script, it comes across as if you are just having a conversation with your spectators (not like you are reading Shakespeare) and has an impromptu feel to it. The script should reflect your performing style whether it is funny, sarcastic, serious or bizzare.
Coherent - This means that there is a reason that one effect is placed after another. It includes having effects that draw the audience in, effects that showcase strong magic, effects that provide a laugh and provide a strong ending to the routine or show but having those different effects tied together in a way that makes sense.
Entertaining - This means that YOU are entertaining the audience by presenting the magic. As magicians we are entertained by the magic, but lay people are entertained by the magician. Reread that last sentence and think about it. This is the most important thing about being a "professional." Being entertaining means that your patter needs to be more than say-do-see patter where you say what you are going to do, do it and then tell the audience to see what happens (if you find yourself saying "waaaaatch" in a deep voice for every effect - they you likely are using say-do-see patter). Eugene Burger calls that type of presentation "the adventures of the props in the magician's hands."
2. Is your magic flawless? Have you practiced it and performed your effects so that there is nothing that can go wrong? Have you performed the effects enough times that anything that you have a solution for everything that could go wrong? Is your presentation confident and consistent - does it seem like you are making things up as you go and trying to think of what you are going to say or does your presentation have a professional feel to it being delivered flawlessly?
3. Do you use a variety of props and a variety of presentations? Or are you just doing one find-a-card trick after another? Does you show have texture to it in that the presentations for each effect are varied?
4. Can you effectively handle difficult spectators and hecklers (there is a vast difference between the two)? Do you have the experience to know when to ignore them, when to engage them and how to handle them?
5. Do you look like a professional? I'm not talking about your physical attributes, but more so how you dress and how you handle yourself.
With you being 13, you need to be twice as good as someone twice your age.
Maybe a simpler questions would be: "Do you think you are worth $100 for an hour?" Put another way, do you realistically think someone would pay $100 an hour to hire you? If not, then you are not ready to get paid for your performances. I think that $100 an hour is the low end of what a magic show should cost. If your show isn't worth $100 for an hour, you shouldn't be charging.
Realize that I'm not saying this to discourage you, but to keep your expectations in line with reality. You are young and you have lots of time to perfect your magic so that when you are 18 you will be able to charge $200 an hour for a show. Take your time and perfect the art. Learn as much as you can by reading Tarbell rather than buying the trick of the month. Read books on presentation. Learn about the history of magic. Get as much performing experience as possible. Develop routines and shows that demonstrate your talent and creativity. Practice, rehearse, perform and (as Draven says) repeat.
Jamie's post is really good and I second the recommendation that you read it.
With that being said, I'm going to ask what I think is the most important question: Should you be charging for performing?
I'll start by saying that I have never seen you perform and have no idea how good a performer you are. But let me ask some questions which will help you decide whether you should be charging for your performance:
1. Do you have an act? For walk-around, that means having at least three sets of three effects that are scripted and presented in a coherent entertaining manner -- it doesn't mean that you have three tricks that you perform while narrating what you are doing (I put this card here, and then it does this). For other performances, it means having a show that is scripted and presented in a coherent and entertaining manner. Let me expand a bit on three of the words I've used:
Scripted - This means that you have thought about, written, revised and rehearsed what you are going to say. Although you have a script, it comes across as if you are just having a conversation with your spectators (not like you are reading Shakespeare) and has an impromptu feel to it. The script should reflect your performing style whether it is funny, sarcastic, serious or bizzare.
Coherent - This means that there is a reason that one effect is placed after another. It includes having effects that draw the audience in, effects that showcase strong magic, effects that provide a laugh and provide a strong ending to the routine or show but having those different effects tied together in a way that makes sense.
Entertaining - This means that YOU are entertaining the audience by presenting the magic. As magicians we are entertained by the magic, but lay people are entertained by the magician. Reread that last sentence and think about it. This is the most important thing about being a "professional." Being entertaining means that your patter needs to be more than say-do-see patter where you say what you are going to do, do it and then tell the audience to see what happens (if you find yourself saying "waaaaatch" in a deep voice for every effect - they you likely are using say-do-see patter). Eugene Burger calls that type of presentation "the adventures of the props in the magician's hands."
2. Is your magic flawless? Have you practiced it and performed your effects so that there is nothing that can go wrong? Have you performed the effects enough times that anything that you have a solution for everything that could go wrong? Is your presentation confident and consistent - does it seem like you are making things up as you go and trying to think of what you are going to say or does your presentation have a professional feel to it being delivered flawlessly?
3. Do you use a variety of props and a variety of presentations? Or are you just doing one find-a-card trick after another? Does you show have texture to it in that the presentations for each effect are varied?
4. Can you effectively handle difficult spectators and hecklers (there is a vast difference between the two)? Do you have the experience to know when to ignore them, when to engage them and how to handle them?
5. Do you look like a professional? I'm not talking about your physical attributes, but more so how you dress and how you handle yourself.
With you being 13, you need to be twice as good as someone twice your age.
Maybe a simpler questions would be: "Do you think you are worth $100 for an hour?" Put another way, do you realistically think someone would pay $100 an hour to hire you? If not, then you are not ready to get paid for your performances. I think that $100 an hour is the low end of what a magic show should cost. If your show isn't worth $100 for an hour, you shouldn't be charging.
Realize that I'm not saying this to discourage you, but to keep your expectations in line with reality. You are young and you have lots of time to perfect your magic so that when you are 18 you will be able to charge $200 an hour for a show. Take your time and perfect the art. Learn as much as you can by reading Tarbell rather than buying the trick of the month. Read books on presentation. Learn about the history of magic. Get as much performing experience as possible. Develop routines and shows that demonstrate your talent and creativity. Practice, rehearse, perform and (as Draven says) repeat.
I'm seriously appalled at the rates most are satisfied with these days. When I was working clubs in the late 70s and early 80s I was pulling in an easy $50.00 an hour + tips. My typical 3 hour shift meant I left the club with between $300 and $500 bucks in most cases, there are always exceptions based on location and environment; you aren't going to do as well in a lower-end "fast food" styled location as you will the Playboy Club and yet, I was able to do quite well working Pizza Parlors as well as dance clubs.
To my mind, unless you're a complete novice, anything under $25.00 an hour is a major insult and then, I see that rate insulting enough . . . on the other hand, if you are using the close-up gigs as a way to generate private party and local business gigs, it's worth it; you're being paid to do your own marketing so it's ignorant to not do it, even if you've been spoiled.
I've chimed in on this thread simply because I'm confused and rather frustrated when it comes to income and how Magicians as a whole, have seen a decline in hire rates. When I was in my teens $150.00 to $250.00 was standard fare for doing a kiddie birthday gig or the scouts and even church shows. That was over 35 years ago and yet, more than not, magicians are taking gigs for as little as $75.00 right now, rarely breaking $300.00 for the same work. . . how does this reflect the cost of living increases let alone the added costs we face?
It's just something we all need to ponder.
To my mind, unless you're a complete novice, anything under $25.00 an hour is a major insult and then, I see that rate insulting enough . . . on the other hand, if you are using the close-up gigs as a way to generate private party and local business gigs, it's worth it; you're being paid to do your own marketing so it's ignorant to not do it, even if you've been spoiled.
I've chimed in on this thread simply because I'm confused and rather frustrated when it comes to income and how Magicians as a whole, have seen a decline in hire rates. When I was in my teens $150.00 to $250.00 was standard fare for doing a kiddie birthday gig or the scouts and even church shows. That was over 35 years ago and yet, more than not, magicians are taking gigs for as little as $75.00 right now, rarely breaking $300.00 for the same work. . . how does this reflect the cost of living increases let alone the added costs we face?
It's just something we all need to ponder.
Craig, I can't say for America or Canada but here in the UK there are wide spread pay cuts and record levels of unemployment. Also, tipping doesn't exist in the UK. Yet we're experiencing the same thing.
A lady contacted me yesterday for a summer ball. I think its for college students (17-19yr olds) and she wants a magician from 6pm-9.30pm. The cheapest quote she's had is £200 and for 3 and a half hours I think that is peanuts. That's the reality of a recession though.
A lady contacted me yesterday for a summer ball. I think its for college students (17-19yr olds) and she wants a magician from 6pm-9.30pm. The cheapest quote she's had is £200 and for 3 and a half hours I think that is peanuts. That's the reality of a recession though.
Recession and other such economic lingo has been the reasoning for a very long time and somehow we've all allowed it to become part of the norm, so the lower pay scale really is our fault more than it is the economy. We should certainly work with the global or national issues when it comes to economy, we can't escape such things. At the same time we need to draw the line we won't cross.
Before I moved to Northampton (Mass - U.S.A.) I was seeing $45.00 for 20-minutes on a Reading and my low end 10-minute "mini" was $15.00. . . in this town I'm up against Readers taking $5.00 for 10 minutes or as little as $30.00 for a full hour. . . unless you have a second income stream you can't live on that.
With shows I'm used to clearing $15.00 off each guest as a minimum and yet, people in this region complain about a $45.00 ticket that delivers nearly 3 full hours of entertainment + a 4 or 5 course dinning experience & Booze. . . they seem to expect the performers to work for nothing. . . which many seem to be ok with when we see the clowns who are desperate to show off, delivering a much lower quality program take $50.00 flat for doing the same 3 hour program while allowing the hosting facility to take the lion's share. . . or similarly, working for "Event Planners" that talk you down on your fees while building you up to the client in order to get big money on you and your services. . . you might get $100.00 a show while the organizer pockets $200.00 on you. . . this is a major hustle here in the states.
The more I talk to the guys out there that actually make the real cash, it was the day they decided to no longer take any gig that came down the pike and to only work gigs that paid X or greater (i.e. $500.00 or $1,000.00 as a foundation) that their careers actually began to open up. It's not an easy thing to do and it means some seriously lean times at first, but slowly it does take PROVIDED you are good enough to support the quality the buying public expects from that fee.
I don't do a lot work these days due to my health but I still get offers that surprise me, from old clients. I don't set the price, they call me and say things like "We have $2k set aside for a dinner show and would like for you to come out. . . " If I could travel I'd be there in a hot second but I'm more or less limited (exceptionally) when it comes to when and where I can work. The point is, offers of this sort stem from my having set a base line about 20 years ago. Ironically, I've cut that base line back significantly because I'm not traveling and work strictly in the area doing home parties. . . asking for $1,000.00 for a party of 6 or 8 guests just isn't viable in this town.
Before I moved to Northampton (Mass - U.S.A.) I was seeing $45.00 for 20-minutes on a Reading and my low end 10-minute "mini" was $15.00. . . in this town I'm up against Readers taking $5.00 for 10 minutes or as little as $30.00 for a full hour. . . unless you have a second income stream you can't live on that.
With shows I'm used to clearing $15.00 off each guest as a minimum and yet, people in this region complain about a $45.00 ticket that delivers nearly 3 full hours of entertainment + a 4 or 5 course dinning experience & Booze. . . they seem to expect the performers to work for nothing. . . which many seem to be ok with when we see the clowns who are desperate to show off, delivering a much lower quality program take $50.00 flat for doing the same 3 hour program while allowing the hosting facility to take the lion's share. . . or similarly, working for "Event Planners" that talk you down on your fees while building you up to the client in order to get big money on you and your services. . . you might get $100.00 a show while the organizer pockets $200.00 on you. . . this is a major hustle here in the states.
The more I talk to the guys out there that actually make the real cash, it was the day they decided to no longer take any gig that came down the pike and to only work gigs that paid X or greater (i.e. $500.00 or $1,000.00 as a foundation) that their careers actually began to open up. It's not an easy thing to do and it means some seriously lean times at first, but slowly it does take PROVIDED you are good enough to support the quality the buying public expects from that fee.
I don't do a lot work these days due to my health but I still get offers that surprise me, from old clients. I don't set the price, they call me and say things like "We have $2k set aside for a dinner show and would like for you to come out. . . " If I could travel I'd be there in a hot second but I'm more or less limited (exceptionally) when it comes to when and where I can work. The point is, offers of this sort stem from my having set a base line about 20 years ago. Ironically, I've cut that base line back significantly because I'm not traveling and work strictly in the area doing home parties. . . asking for $1,000.00 for a party of 6 or 8 guests just isn't viable in this town.