MENTALISM: How to learn and practice?

Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
Hello T11 community :)

I am still puzzled as to why we don't have Mentalism forum. I hope that it will be taken care of soon. Until then I will post a mentalism thread every couple of days with topics that interest me, and that may interest others who wants to get into mentalism, or who is just starting in mentalism (which is my case).

So, onto the first thread:

How to learn and practice mentalism?

Now this is not a thread about what books or DVD's to buy, but how to actually learn and practice the material that we already have.

To give you an example: We all know how to practice magic. First you get a book (or DVD), find an effect that you like, than you start practicing mechanics of the effect for so long, until your fingers go blue..... and then you practice some more. Once you get all the moves down, that you can perform them in your sleep, than you practice in front of a mirror, to cover the angles. Than you come up with a good presentation. Than you practice presentation while doing the moves, until it all comes into one whole effect. Than you record yourself on the camera, to see what it looks like and sounds like. Correct what needs to be corrected, and then you go out and perform. Perform it many times and take notes on what works and what doesn't work, polish the effect, and so on.

So, following those lines, how would you practice mentalism?
 
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Nov 15, 2007
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There are some things in Mentalism that can (and should) be practiced in private. A few examples would be pocket writing, nail writing, billet switches (make sure they look natural) and reads...

As far as building rapport and believability...I'm thinking you just have to go out and earn it the hard way.

Maybe some working mentalist can chime in, even if it's just something to get discussion started.
 
There are many ways and every person should find their own way.
As mentalism is generally an impro performance using techniques you already know and trying to push them into the moment to create a vibe.
The first thing you want to do is establish the type of mentalism you want to do. Is it a whole spectrum or something specific, this will give you a good idea on how to move on.
If you specialize in PK and supernatural phenomena then it's a bit like magic but when you do straight up mind reading feats using writers, peeks, billets etc. you need an approach that is both real world and private.
As PK is called "PK magic" then it's really close to magic. The difference in PRACTICE is that other than trying to bend spoons until you can't even eat correctly because you hate spoons. But then you build a character and story on it and take it out to the streets/gigs.

I'm going to cover mentalism as whole now. When you get a method it's mostly so easy you can do it right away(for me atleast). You now have to choices:
1) Make a presentation for the effect, settle what methods to co-use(cold reading, hot reading, some hypnosis, word play, psychological aspects) and then you just go out to the stage with it. This is my method, which i have used for the past 3,5 years. This is because to me practicing mentalism at home is hard. Yes i film myself and see if the story is good and my moves are in place but the main effort comes from real life. This is in my mind the best method, mostly because of my performing character.

2) Make a presentation for the effect, settle what methods to co-use(cold reading, hot reading, some hypnosis, word play, psychological aspects) and practice as if you are on stage. Settle where your audience is and place your things where they should be. After that start blabbing out your presentation. This will give you the sense of room, you will be able to quickly know where everything is and also performing will be simpler due to memorization. After you have done this you take it out and beat the living crap out of it.

To sum up the whole post mentalism is practiced in the REAL WORLD. I for one am a big fan on improvisation shows and love to mix in a lot of BS to make people laugh and such. I take in the input from audiences and wrap it up and present it to them again.
To say the least, the methods are mostly simple and the only thing you need to really practice at home is the "sleights". After you have gotten the sleights down(most of the time you will be using them in different effects so it's a one time thing) you just hit it in the face with a stage show. That will give you a real idea what is happening. Also if you can practice your effects on a group of friends who try to heckle you(read: act like a normal audience) then that will give you a map.
But performing it over and over and over is the only way you can REALLY practice mentalism.

M.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
There are many ways and every person should find their own way.
As mentalism is generally an impro performance using techniques you already know and trying to push them into the moment to create a vibe.
The first thing you want to do is establish the type of mentalism you want to do. Is it a whole spectrum or something specific, this will give you a good idea on how to move on.
If you specialize in PK and supernatural phenomena then it's a bit like magic but when you do straight up mind reading feats using writers, peeks, billets etc. you need an approach that is both real world and private.
As PK is called "PK magic" then it's really close to magic. The difference in PRACTICE is that other than trying to bend spoons until you can't even eat correctly because you hate spoons. But then you build a character and story on it and take it out to the streets/gigs.

I'm going to cover mentalism as whole now. When you get a method it's mostly so easy you can do it right away(for me atleast). You now have to choices:
1) Make a presentation for the effect, settle what methods to co-use(cold reading, hot reading, some hypnosis, word play, psychological aspects) and then you just go out to the stage with it. This is my method, which i have used for the past 3,5 years. This is because to me practicing mentalism at home is hard. Yes i film myself and see if the story is good and my moves are in place but the main effort comes from real life. This is in my mind the best method, mostly because of my performing character.

2) Make a presentation for the effect, settle what methods to co-use(cold reading, hot reading, some hypnosis, word play, psychological aspects) and practice as if you are on stage. Settle where your audience is and place your things where they should be. After that start blabbing out your presentation. This will give you the sense of room, you will be able to quickly know where everything is and also performing will be simpler due to memorization. After you have done this you take it out and beat the living crap out of it.

To sum up the whole post mentalism is practiced in the REAL WORLD. I for one am a big fan on improvisation shows and love to mix in a lot of BS to make people laugh and such. I take in the input from audiences and wrap it up and present it to them again.
To say the least, the methods are mostly simple and the only thing you need to really practice at home is the "sleights". After you have gotten the sleights down(most of the time you will be using them in different effects so it's a one time thing) you just hit it in the face with a stage show. That will give you a real idea what is happening. Also if you can practice your effects on a group of friends who try to heckle you(read: act like a normal audience) then that will give you a map.
But performing it over and over and over is the only way you can REALLY practice mentalism.

M.

Finally someone with an answer. I guess that is why we don't have mentalism forum, since no one is willing to participate in mentalism threads (more or less).

Thanks Mr.MadMan. I have started reading all kinds of material about mentalism, cold reading, hypnosis, etc. I would like to do all kinds of mentalism (except maybe spoon and fork bending). But reading minds, cold readings, hypnosis, coind bend, drawing duplications, predictions, suggestions etc...

So let me ask another question. Out of all of these branches of mentalism, which one would you guys recommend to start out with? I think the hypnosis is the most difficult one, so that one should be covered last, imo.
In the saying "learn how to walk before you can run", what would be "walk" and what would be "run", in mentalism?
 
Your main focus right now should be the easier stuff. Trying to come from magic to mentalism, slowly adding stuff.
I have been in mentalism for 3,5 years and i'm just beginning to get the hang of it.
Hypnosis is actually another branch on it's own. The link between mentalism and hypnosis is very small. Hypnosis is used to make the effect stronger and to give a "logical" explanation to the effect.

There are great threads on how to start in mentalism. Check the search function, i myself, Craig, D ICE R, praetoritevong and others have participated in many of these threads and they give you the full understanding of how to start and why.
But the walk would be predictions, billets, double writing etc. The main "sleights" and effects. A good starter is a book test which gives you a pretty good idea on how mentalism works.

If you have any questions hit me a PM and i can talk to you about it.

M.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
Well, so far I have been doing some ESP effects, which are pretty easy. Mentalism presentation of a mathemathical trick. Magic square. Technique by Matthew Mello. Prevaricator.
Those are all beginner effects, and pretty easy to do. I love the organic feel of Technique and Prevaricator, since it doesn't require any gimmicks or sleights, but genuine body language reading. Do you know some more of those types of effects?
Also, what would be the next step that I should take?
 

atinfinity

Elite Member
Dec 5, 2010
80
3
I think Rich Ferguson's This is Mentalism is a great source of information regarding mentalism. Personally mentalism isn't my type of genre, but I bought it anyways cause I was interested in the concept. Ferguson does give good advice on the DVD that can make any mentalism act stronger and better.

I know it's a DVD and such, but it offers great advice on how to learn and practice mentalism.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
If you are serious about mentalism you should watch some of the bests, and in my opinion there is nobody better than Bob Cassidy. Derren is nice however I feel Cassidy's approach of less is more in terms of presentation appealing. Derren displays an amazing skill however Cassidy and Maven make it feel more of a gift.

I would recommend looking at some good quality billet work as a starting point as you can go where ever you want with the presentation. My three favourite billet effects are a centre tear, three little questions and a question and the answer. These are found in Corinda and in Annemann. On the YouTube channel the remote viewing clip is a variation on the Annemann a question and the answer.

If you really want to practice mentalism you should practice the moves and only use them as a back up. Take the centre tear for example. It has been exposed many times but the method is still really strong but you would be a fool if you instantly revealed the information or even went for the peek. I would recommend doing the CT for a person to think of a close friend. Go from there and do nothing but CT for the whole day, work on the timing as to when you do the peek and the steal. The presentation and the 'process' as to how you determine the reveal.

Say if you ask someone to think of anyone special to them use the 'real' methods of fishing for who the person is in relation to the spec and you have the amazing reveal of their name to close the effect.

Once you do a few days of performing nothing but the centre tear you will learn what works for you and what does not. Then you can use this in other routines.

If you don't like the CT which a lot of people don't you could use a billet switch the method in AQ&TA is great but I prefer the standard switch. However the read is amazing, so if combined a different switch with the read you will have a killer effect. The remote viewing effect is based on AQ&TA with an amazing idea that makes you get two hits for one and I prefer the switch used in that effect aswell.

Also if you watch the 11:33 min video on Cassidy's link you can see his improvements to Forth Dimensional Telepathy which is in his eyes the greatest effect ever created, and you can see why.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
If you are serious about mentalism you should watch some of the bests, and in my opinion there is nobody better than Bob Cassidy. Derren is nice however I feel Cassidy's approach of less is more in terms of presentation appealing. Derren displays an amazing skill however Cassidy and Maven make it feel more of a gift.

I would recommend looking at some good quality billet work as a starting point as you can go where ever you want with the presentation. My three favourite billet effects are a centre tear, three little questions and a question and the answer. These are found in Corinda and in Annemann. On the YouTube channel the remote viewing clip is a variation on the Annemann a question and the answer.

If you really want to practice mentalism you should practice the moves and only use them as a back up. Take the centre tear for example. It has been exposed many times but the method is still really strong but you would be a fool if you instantly revealed the information or even went for the peek. I would recommend doing the CT for a person to think of a close friend. Go from there and do nothing but CT for the whole day, work on the timing as to when you do the peek and the steal. The presentation and the 'process' as to how you determine the reveal.

Say if you ask someone to think of anyone special to them use the 'real' methods of fishing for who the person is in relation to the spec and you have the amazing reveal of their name to close the effect.

Once you do a few days of performing nothing but the centre tear you will learn what works for you and what does not. Then you can use this in other routines.

If you don't like the CT which a lot of people don't you could use a billet switch the method in AQ&TA is great but I prefer the standard switch. However the read is amazing, so if combined a different switch with the read you will have a killer effect. The remote viewing effect is based on AQ&TA with an amazing idea that makes you get two hits for one and I prefer the switch used in that effect aswell.

Also if you watch the 11:33 min video on Cassidy's link you can see his improvements to Forth Dimensional Telepathy which is in his eyes the greatest effect ever created, and you can see why.

I don't like CT just for justification reasons. Maybe you can help me with that. Why would you make them write something down, just so you can tear it right away? I know couple of simple ways to switch billets. And I know one billet peek (Acidus Novus).
Can I just ask (everyone), when giving references to an effect, or a move, can you just put in what book is that move or effect found. Specially because I have no idea what or where AQ&TA are?
 
I love magicians :), justification pfft. No one cares to be true but the one i use is from Docc Hilford if i remember correctly and it goes like this: "You know i had a guy come up a few years back and i asked him to think of a number. Now what he originally thought of was 7 and i wrote down seven but as i revealed it he changed his mind. So to lock you down on a single digit and commit you to it, this will make it harder for me because i have a lesser chance of hitting if i just tell you a number."
Thats the Looooong version, but the justification is: To commit them to one number so they can not change their mind at the end and screw up your effect. Take that in mind.

M.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
I love magicians :), justification pfft. No one cares to be true but the one i use is from Docc Hilford if i remember correctly and it goes like this: "You know i had a guy come up a few years back and i asked him to think of a number. Now what he originally thought of was 7 and i wrote down seven but as i revealed it he changed his mind. So to lock you down on a single digit and commit you to it, this will make it harder for me because i have a lesser chance of hitting if i just tell you a number."
Thats the Looooong version, but the justification is: To commit them to one number so they can not change their mind at the end and screw up your effect. Take that in mind.

M.

Yes, that is great justification for writing something down. But what is the justification for tearing it right after it being written? I understand the justification for billet peak, but I don't understand the justification for center tear. If that makes sense :)
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
I mentioned A Question and The Answer in an earlier paragraph. That is the basis of the remote view routine. I mentioned that it is found in Annemann (towards the beginning I think in the late 20s).

I personally hate Acidus Novis, if you want to talk justification why write it in that position. There is no need to justify the centre tear when you can do it well. The attitude you should (in my opinion) is that you know what they are thinking of and you want to tear the billet because it is no longer needed.

As far as switches you only need one.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
I mentioned A Question and The Answer in an earlier paragraph. That is the basis of the remote view routine. I mentioned that it is found in Annemann (towards the beginning I think in the late 20s).

I personally hate Acidus Novis, if you want to talk justification why write it in that position. There is no need to justify the centre tear when you can do it well. The attitude you should (in my opinion) is that you know what they are thinking of and you want to tear the billet because it is no longer needed.

As far as switches you only need one.

Oh ok, so I hold the billet in the (closed) hand, for example, acting like I'm trying to get the information from it, and then tear it up because I don't need it any more? Yeah, that makes little more sense.
In Acidus Novis, I am also havin trouble of finding a reason as to why writing in that position on the billet. So far I haven't come up with anything better than actually checking if the pen is working on those fealds that are not used writing.

Oh wait, an idea poped into my head right now. What if you write on the billet something like "I'm thinking of my favorite animal, and it is_________". And the line will be, in that case, exactly where it needs to be, and it makes a little bit more sense. It's like filling the gap with swami, but instead of swami, spectator gets to fill it up. Makes sense?
 
That is a method used for it yes.
More so the method goes into the realm of dual reality, which will make the effect stronger and more impossible. But that is a bit advanced. As DICER said, the justification is mainly how you use the billet and what it should look in a routine. I'm a strong believer that when there is something i don't have to use i don't and if i do it has a meaning.
There are many ideas how to use acidus novus, many performers have their own take on its implications. Search around a bit ;).

M.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
First things first you should never hold a billet in a closed fist. The billet should always remain visible, or at least the audience should know where it is. In the Cassidy routine it is openly burned and placed in the goblet.

You could write something like that on a billet however personally I find it to be too much effort to pre write billets for what essentially is a impromptu performance.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,395
8
38
Belgrade, Serbia
First things first you should never hold a billet in a closed fist. The billet should always remain visible, or at least the audience should know where it is. In the Cassidy routine it is openly burned and placed in the goblet.

You could write something like that on a billet however personally I find it to be too much effort to pre write billets for what essentially is a impromptu performance.

Yes, but Cassidy burned it because he was "eliminating it" and deciding to go with the other billet, and then he returned to the burned one in kind of like of beat moment. I'm looking for a justification of destroying the billet if it is the only one used. I saw couple of videos (which now I realize that they were bad), by some famous magicians who justify it by saying "Please write down that persons name on this peace of paper...... ok perfect...... in fact, we don't need it so I will just tear it up", which, to me, sounds pretty dumb.

I understand what you are saying about Acidus Novis, but it would not be pre written, I would just write it there on the spot. Something like "Think of that persons name.... in fact, I will just ask you to write it down here on the paper, so we can come to it later and verify the name" as I'm saying that I would write "The name of the person I'm thinking of is __________". Or something along those lines.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
On the whole magicians cannot (usually) sell a Centre Tear.

As I was saying earlier I would highly recommend the classics. Cassidy's Mental Miracles is also amazing as he shows you his modern handling of classic's. Hi book the Artful Mentalism is also well worth the price and then a lot more.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
...Craig...?

Would this be seen as an Invocation or Provocation of my name?

Ok this is a BIG issue in that there really is NO SINGLE “RIGHT” ANSWER. The reasons for this are many, starting with the fact that no two of us are the same person e.g. no two of us have the same “skill-set” or “skill-level” when it comes to technique, let alone the same level of discipline when it comes to setting time to the side to actually LEARN what Mentalism is and isn’t.

Most all of us came to Mentalism by way of Magic and as such our way of viewing Mentalism is horridly distorted because we process things as a Magician would; we tend to see “effects” in the same way as we would the Cups & Balls or Assembling Aces rather than understanding that properly executed Mentalism should NEVER seem like a trick and for that matter, never be presented in the same setting as traditional magic would be done by the same performer.

Yes, this is a big, ugly point of debate in that Magicians want their cake and eat it too. As one gent put it a few years back; “a magician will see a Mentalist present an amazing Book test and ponder how he can fit it into his show next week. A Mentalist on the other hand, won’t watch a magic show and contemplate how to present the Zombie ball as a feat of psychic prowess. . . “

Trust me on that, I’ve had two friends of mine not only “borrow” bits from my shows but even called me up to ask for help in polishing a bit that was one of me “signature” routines. Both of these guys are Magicians that do birthday Parties and close-up card routines but they wanted a piece that had the psychological power and AFFECT on their audience this particular piece has when worked under proper auspices.

Ok… this is my third attempt at brevity on this issue and what I’m going to say will undoubtedly tick more than a few of you off. . . but hey, that seem to be my job these days; challenging people to THINK and to be MORE.

First things first, what are the skills a solid mentalist requires?

The short list that’s been preached for generations would be;
* People Evaluation Skills/People Reading
* Memory/Mnemonic Skills (includes Code Work)
* Billet Technique (a minimum of 6 solid switches & 6 solid peeks) – not to be confused with Peek systems like Acidus Novus or the Center Tear which should be treated separately.
* Muscle Reading – both, full and indirect contact as well as non-contact
* Swami/Secret Writing Skills – includes pocket & double/ghost-writing
* Covert Information Collection Skills – using a shiner, impression systems, lip & pencil reading, etc.

New Comers to the list would include
* Psychological Commons (psychological forces & working with demographic data – also ties to “Cold Reading”)
* Psychokinetic Techniques – Key & Spoon Bending have become a new dynamic to Mentalism since the early 1970’s. Too, we must include simply telekinetic phenomenon such as pages in a book turning on their own and other “poltergeist” type manifestations.

Then we have the “Known of But Rarely Discussed” skills list;
* VOCABULARY – knowing what the hell you’re talking about and being able to communicate with your patrons via a vernacular they are familiar with. If you don’t know the difference between Telepathy and Clairvoyance there’s a very good chance no one is going to believe a word you say during a presentation. Especially when you start noticing that a large number of the folks you’ll meet in this world do know what is what and will “out you” in a hot second.
* DICTION – Yes, we’re talking about how well you speak. Mentalists are supposed to be “educated” for the most part; men & women that have invested time into studying the things they talk on and thus, they should know how to pronounce the terms properly for the sake of UNIVERSAL comprehension.
* PRESENTATION – again we are looking at one more leg of the COMMUNICATION theme I’ve got going here. Learn to use your voice and words effectively so as to be a better human being, not just some ham on stage – LEARN TO COMMUNICATE!

We all know the line about being actors playing a part the catch is, less than 3% of those that get involved with magic, let alone Mentalism, ever take the concept to heart; we don’t learn how to be an ACTOR first, nor do we pay attention as to how it is the single most important of all the skills being discussed, with EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATIONS following close second.

A good teacher will only teach from what he/she knows from life. For that reason I can only express the “old way” of doing it all in that I learned from old timers from the show biz & carnival world as well as relatives that really did this stuff “for real” in the shut-eye world . . . real dowsers, readers, healers, etc. (I come from a very long line of them). My experience has taught me that this is the “more true” version of Mentalism, especially in light of what we have in today’s hodgepodge philosophy & practice. . . c’mon, people actually believe David Copperfield was a Mentalist?! {see my column in the new issue of On-Line VISISONS next week for more details}

Learning the Slight-of-Hand side of Mentalism is the same as learning any other slight-based skill; you make up lots of billets (the typical case) and you practice at a near constant level, switching one for the other alongside copping the read. Same with you Peeks & Tears! Just don’t get lazy and rely too much on those pesky wallets and card holders. . . YOU’RE NOT A MAGICIAN YOU’RE A MENTALIST!

Gimmicks and more importantly, our dependence on gimmicks/mechanical devices & methods, limits our ability to deliver on a claim when we’ve misplaced said item or worse, the batteries have gone dead. LEARN TO DO REAL TIME WORK it’s what separates those that still approach it all as they would a magic show from those that seek to create the miraculous. Or, as a friend of mine would say, it will help you think more like a real charlatan than some Vaudevillian wannabe.


See the next post. . .
 
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