Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Mentalism

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sinful07, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Ive been snooping around and religiously watching some of Derren brown's shows and clips that i can scrounge off youtube and ive concluded (though it was blatantly obvious) that he uses some Neuro-Linguistic Programming to accomplish certain effects.

    I was wondering if anyone else has any varied experience Regarding NLP that may suggest books, training excercises and general tips.

    Cheers,

    -Sin
     
  2. It is said to help you with learning faster or to help you quit smoking. However it lacks any written theory and it doesn't have any scientifical proof that the things are actually working. There are a lot better approaches to psychology and forms of therapy.

    NLP has pretty much nothing to do with magic nor mentalism. If you're still intrested you can head to your local library and pick up a couple books. Not hard to find at all.
     
  3. Before you jump to the conclusion that he's using NLP, I think it might be worth taking a step back and thinking about whether there's maybe another, simpler method he could be employing, because if there is, the chances are he's going to use that.

    Yes, you can achieve quite magical effects using techniques that are taught as part of NLP, in terms of changing someone's perception, but you're probably going to be disappointed if you think NLP is going to give you the skills Derren Brown appears to possess. The reason why he's so successful is because he plays to the audience's intelligence, making them believe they can see his methods, which means they no longer have the question "How does he do that?", so they can relax and respond instead with "Isn't it amazing that he can do that?"
     
  4. #4 Geraint2k2, Jul 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2009
    Hey Sinful,

    After finding the 4od page with all Derren Brown episodes on, I got quite interested in it aswell.
    Not nlp, but his methods of the effects he presents as NLP.

    Some of his tricks are not as special as they look and employ 1-ahead techniques and a very amazing memory.

    His book TRICK OF THE MIND ( available from play.com for like £5 ) will teach you all you need to know about NLP and why it wont help you too much.

    If you interested in suggestion, and its magical merit, then pick up pure effect by Derren Brown, psychological psyche by Kevin Parker , and Building Blocks by Luke Jermay.
    These are the 3 best books i've been filling my head with so far on modern presentations of mind reading and nlp with suggestive techniques.

    Oh and TEE DEE is soooo right .....

    Cheers,

    Geraint
     
  5. I beg to differ.
    Just beacause there is no evidence that something doesn't exist it isn't to say it doesn't. Look at the molecular structure of everything in this world. No body has ever seen these molecules as we don't have particles big enough but you are taught it as fact at school be cause we're pretty certain they are.
    I wouldn't say I've studied NLP substansialy but have read a few articles and bits of books.
    It wasn't my thing, far to complex! I do however feel it is as important as another form of mentalism/theropy, it's a tool. Ask a builder which tools the most important and they couldn't choose cause they all have differnt jobs with different strenghts and weakness'.
    However, NLP is for the serious mentalist, it's pretty complex, difficult to learn and hard to practice.
    I'd start with something basic like said above Derren browns book 'Trick of the Mind'. If you think you could benefit more from extra learnign by all means go and by a whole book on the subject!
     
  6. And that didn't make it suspect?

    In part, Derren also uses his pseudo-scientific screed because of public conceptions about it. Just as the magicians of the 19th century would talk about the mystics of Egypt and the Far East, so does Derren Brown talk about NLP and the like because of the number of people who actually believe it is the gateway to superpowers.

    Better I think to start with a book on stage hypnosis. Hypnotists were doing what NLP claims to have innovated since the days of Mesmer.



    I suggest you take some more courses in chemistry if you want to compare molecular chemistry to NLP.

    Personally, I find it better to recommend books on acting considering the vast majority of magicians couldn't act to save a burning orphanage.
     
  7. Nlp

    'Neuro-Linguistic Programming is defined as the study of the structure of subjective experience & what can be calculated from that & is predicated upon the belief that all behaviour has structure.' Study Psychology, Hypnosis & suggestibility & get Harry Lorayne's, How to develop a super memory. Look up a book by Graham F. Wagstaff, Hypnosis- Compliance & belief, studying these topics than NLP is going to benifit your Magic or Mentalism alot more than NLP.
     
  8. The very fact that so many people BELIEVE Derren Brown uses Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Psychological Influence shows his skill. I wouldn't waste too much time studying NLP for mentalism if I were you.
     
  9. I think you need to look more into your performances and presentations. That is the key to making people believe.
     

  10. Listen to Steerpike.

    NLP doesn't do what it claims to do. Don't spend the money. If you want to get an idea of how Derren does it and want to spend money, then get Derren's book. That's all the NLP you'll need.
     
  11. You can do what Derren Brown does if you have studied any of the basic Mentalism books. Because that's all he is doing, just that he most likely read a few Psychology books and dressed basic mentalism up with it. It's a smart move on his part, but not everybody can pull it off. You have to know AT LEAST a bit about what you are talking about, rather than just saying "Oh it's NLP."
     
  12. Although I accept your basic point, I think that's undervaluing what he does to an extent. He was a hypnotist before he read 13 Steps or wielded a deck of cards, plus he has studied NLP with Richard Bandler, so he does have a good background of knowledge in this area, rather than having just read a few books. His genius is in presentation and acting, meaning that his individual tricks are really just convincers for the overall effect he's producing of having a supreme mastery of psychological reading and influence.
     
  13. He's also an excellent showman (which is usually what some Mentalist lack)
     
  14. Tricks of the mind is a good book. The NEW encyclapedia of modern stage hypnotism is an amazing book. For hypnosis, thats the only book your gonna need. "Mind Control: The Ultimate Revelation" by David Shuttleworth is pretty good too. He explains a lot of Derren's Tricks. "how to read people's minds or, the mystery of mind reading revealed" by H.J. Burlingame is great. Along with Psychophysioogical thought reading or, muscle reading and the ideomotor response revealed" by Banachek. For those of you who mentioned a book on acting, "Maximum Entertainment: Director's notes for magicians and mentalists" By Ken Weber is the best investment I ever made. I love NLP, but I never get a real chance to use it.
     
  15. People should read posts more carefully before responding.

    Personally, I've found only one use for NLP and that was out of the book Mind Lines. That's a book specifically for rewiring limited thinking in yourself by teaching you to get into the habit of using more proactive and positive mindframes. It has an actual therapeutic background.

    Other than that, I prefer studying Jungian psychology and semiotics.
     
  16. Im personally tempted to re-do this thread, as its filled with "oh my god, its not just NLP, its showmanship, Magic and all that jazz. Not just NLP" posts.

    Relax.

    I did not state- by any means that Derren Brown Purely uses NLP in his effects. I said some- and seeing the posts that have amassed, i see that its debatable.

    Im getting tired of people not actually reading the post before posting. Waste of mine- and everyone else's time.

    Tricks of the mind aye? Ive read it about a year ago now- but cant seem to recall any step-by-step experiences as to how to learn "The type of things he does." so to speak. They are moreso experiences.
     
  17. Nobody mentioned Kenton Kneppers Wonder Words???
     

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