not approved by theory 11

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by themagicgeek, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. i think this is quite a good trick keeping in mind that there are so simple and trivial tricks as the dice sum prediction, simple double lift card plots etc on theory for sale. but my trick was not accepted for sale in the marketplace. is it due to low level of video recording skills? what do u think? do let me know below
  2. If I were to make a guess, I would say its a quite simple trick that has been done a lot in the past. There's nothing new about it whatsoever and the moderators here at Theory11 require you to present an original trick, in terms of handling, at least, if not an entirely new trick.
    Also, the video here has a lot of flashing which kinda do reveal what has happened (maybe not to a layman though, its just my opinion).
    I don't think camera quality matters much but some basic video recording, y'know without a toe sticking out, is probably required.

    Best way to find out for sure is to email them at @
    All the best !
  3. Have to agree with Faizpardesi there. There's nothing new or original here. And you flashed multiple times. This is basically the same trick everyone comes up with when they learn an assortment of false cuts and a multiple card control.
    Maaz Hasan and Antonio Diavolo like this.
  4. Agreed. Would respectfully suggest (1) not so much shuffling and cutting (far more than is necessary), as it unduly drags out the performance; (2) finding another way to lose cards other than the slip cuts, which are obvious and don't look natural (perhaps double undercuts instead); (3) create an interesting script or story, as opposed to just a narrative commentary on what you are doing with the cards.
  5. I think the reviewers of the trick will usually email you a reason as to why they did not approve it.

    Some tips I have for the future is to do your research to make sure your plot, method, and presentation are original. There is a wonderful site called where you can look through the contents of magic books and see if there is already something similar to what you are working on. That is usually where I start my research, especially for card tricks. You may also want to pick up Encyclopedia of Card Tricks, Royal Road to Card Magic, Expert Card Technique, and/or Expert at the Card Table for further research.

    Once you have done your own research, send it out your ideas to a few magic friends that you trust and have more knowledge in magic than you. They may be able to find something you may have missed in checking for the originality of your release. If there is something that is somewhat similar in plot, method, or presentation; contact the creator of the other effect and ask if they would be okay with you releasing your idea. Often times if it is not directly copying their work, they are pretty cool about it.

    You will definitely want to up the production values of effects you submit. Not only does it help influence the decision of the reviewers, it just overall correlates to better sales and reviews. Remember, your effect has to be marketable. Just because you like it doesn't mean that others will. You want to release something to the community that you think would benefit the art by innovating in it.

    For the trailer, take out the crotch shots. No one wants to see those kinds of shots. Make sure you have good audio. Good audio can make the difference in everything as well as proper lighting. Make sure to be articulate and clear in what you are saying in the trailer and make sure it is clear that your audience knows what you are selling. Also include benefits to why they should pick your effect over others. (i.e. impromptu, cards can be signed, etc.).
    DominusDolorum likes this.
  6. I didn't use slip cuts to deceive. The audience feels like all the top 3 cards are going into different positions of the deck.
  7. While I am sure a laymen has a good chance of missing what you're doing, I can see it plain as day and it's not new. I'm pretty sure everyone who's studied card magic has created this trick - I know I did, and it wasn't original when I did it either.

    As some constructive criticism, I strongly advice creating something a little more engaging and logical-sounding than what you're using as a script here. Al e Cat Dabra had great suggestions to improve the performance of this trick.
    Antonio Diavolo likes this.
  8. @themagicgeek: "The audience feels like all the top 3 cards are going into different positions of the deck."

    Perhaps so, but the more important issue is whether the audience feels like those top 3 cards are the aces. Why deal the 4 aces from the deck to the table, thus displaying them, only to bring them back again to the deck, turning them face down onto the deck, one at a time, and then placing them into the deck? And this, without any verification that it is the aces you are burying? An unnatural and suspicious add-on move is not going to build conviction that the face-down cards you are putting into different positions of the deck, without showing them, are in fact the aces. Actually, just the opposite. Do you know, or have you considered learning a good multiple shift? That way, once you place the aces on the table face-up, as you did in the beginning of the routine, each ace can picked up from the table and be directly and openly placed into a different part of the deck or a fan.
  9. I will be direct because I think if you posted here it's because you want honest feedback.

    Just a few things but... film this on a table... we don't want to see toes (especially not the toes of the one filming!) in the middle of a card trick. Also, stop saying through the deck how finding the aces will be hard or how amazing it is... If you have to tell people something is amazing, it probably is not.

    As others have pointed, the trick seems to drag on a bit. The numerous cuts, shuffles and riffles take too much time. To me, a trick that is accomplished in one or two simple moves that seem like they are simple, normal handling of the deck will look better than a trick with countless manipulations.

    There might be something in that trick that could make it worth buying... I can't comment on it that much being a relatively new "magician" myself. But that video did not convince me I should invest in it and I can see why it would not convince T11 either.
    DominusDolorum likes this.
  10. I'm not gonna repeat too much of what these guys said, but for the things that I think need the most emphasis on:

    Firstly, the trick isn't original at all. Sorry, but these types of tricks have been done all the time before (and with the same method too).

    Second off, the performance wasn't good. There was no patter whatsoever, and I got bored pretty quickly. Further more, all the random cuts were unneeded. They just take up time and make it look suspicious.

    You need to work on your handling and your moves too.

    Finally, the filming can be much better. Even if you don't have a better camera, put it on a table and try and keep the camera stable.
    Antonio Diavolo likes this.
  11. 1. You almost drop the Ace of Spades at :16. I would start over until you execute the moves flawlessly. Not even just the sleights, but everything.

    2. I would try thinking of another way to catch the multiple card break. It is way too obvious. Remember a layman might not notice this, but you aren't selling this trick to laymen. You're selling it to magicians. Don't make it too obvious.

    3. You shuffle/dribble/cut/mix the cards for exactly 82 seconds. Way too long. To put the entertainment value of your shuffling into perspective, I want you to stare at a blank wall and count to 82 seconds. You're over justifying that the deck is mixed, which actually only makes me think that it isn't.

    4. The quilt is quite distracting. It's blue and white with a pattern. Most people perform on close-up mats, but I can see that being a financial burden on just about everyone in the world. I mean Dan & Dave sell one for like $200 it makes me cry. Try maybe a solid color couch seat, or a t-shirt stretched over a piece of foam. There are a lot of tutorials on YouTube on how to make your own close-up mat.

    5. Find a way to prop your camera up if you can't invest in a tri-pod. A cameraman would be okay, but not when I can see your cameraman's toe. It also sounds like they either have a cold, or are sucking their drool back in. At one point it even sounds like they yawn a bit. I would just avoid a cameraman all together if it isn't a professional.

    Half the battle is putting yourself out there and practicing with all this stuff and getting feedback like you are now. I'd suggest you get back in the lab and practice some more, and try to save money and invest in some tools for recording. Your video quality will increase tenfold if you give it a couple more months.
  12. The thing about creating and selling magic is that the fundamentals have to be there. In order to be able to teach an effect or idea you yourself need to understand the principles and have experience necessary to execute the effect.

    The best example is if I was learning guitar. I should not start teaching or offering guitar lessons if I am still studying and learning how to play the basics of guitar.
    I am not sure how much experience you have but I would suggest getting more practice under your belt and not worry so much about releasing material here while you learn. Over time you will develop the necessary skills to be able to start creating original ideas and effectively teach them to people!
    Good luck and dont give up. Just know it doesn't happen overnight :)
  13. i
    i died laughing reading this. quite a humorous style u have...
  14. I'm guessing you are being sarcastic because @ChrisJGJ's post was not intended to be humorous. If that is the case, I think that the sarcastic response is unwarranted.

    Chris and the others who have replied on this thread have given you valid and constructive criticism. It has to be a bit uncomfortable to hear that something you thought was amazing isn't as quite good as you thought. However, you can't improve as a magician without honest feedback.

    The guys who have responded in this thread are knowledgeable in sleight of hand and experienced in performing. They have taken time that could have been spent on other things to provide you with sugggestions how to improve. My suggestion is to honestly listen to their advice and make changes in your effect.

    Although I do not think that your effect would ever make it on the marketplace because neither the plot or the methods are original, you can turn it into something that you can perform and get great reactions.

    Much of how we view our magic and the magic of others is based on where we are in our journey in learning magic. Starting out you have a certain level of knowledge but as you progress you find out that you didn't know as much as you thought. Truly, the more I learn, the more I discover how much I don't know.

    My advice to you is to spend time learning and performing routines designed by others. Imitation comes before innovation. Learn the sleights but also learn what makes those effects work from a plot stand point. Learn from reputable sources - not YouTube (where most sleights are taught badly). The more you know the better you will become.
    DavidL11229 and ncaron like this.
  15. you didn't quite get my point. look at chris' 5th point. its really humorous. i never said that i didn't take his advice sincerely. as regards youtube, i mostly learn from standard books by marlo, vernon and roberto giobbi's books
    RealityOne likes this.
  16. thank you all for quick replies and support. maybe next time i shall do better..
    Damian Knight likes this.
  17. @magicgeek: Your humility will serve you well and I have no doubt that you will do better and continue to grow as an artist and performer. I am happy you realize that the members here are sincere in wanting to help one another, and that is a blessing of this Forum and a very significant factor in helping us all improve. The kind of candor and honest feedback we receive from others (magicians or laymen) as to handling, presentation etc. is something we cannot as objectively give to ourselves. Even being on the critiquing end of things, as many of us have been on this particular thread, is a valuable experience, because it makes us think and maybe analyze and re-evaluate how we can make our own performances and presentations stronger - so it's win win.
    themagicgeek likes this.
  18. I don't think there was ill intent there. I think he was genuinely entertained by ChrisJGJ's excellent response. I even chuckled a few times at his point. @ChrisJGJ good post sir!
    RyanMagician and themagicgeek like this.

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