Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by Peter Slim, May 28, 2018.

  1. hello, all, and thank you for your time.

    I want to learn, and I am new to cardistry. When you guys/gals started learning working with packets did you rubber band them together, or is that a bad habit?

    Cheers, peter
  2. I have taped some packets together on a plastic deck when learning a new cut before and found it very advantageous. I say on a plastic deck because I can remove the tape with no damage to the cards that way later on. Before the taped packets I was dropping single cards often but after a day or two I was okay with taking the tape off and not dropping cards.

    You can also buy cardistry trainers which are sometimes plastic or leather packet sized portions to practice with but I can't speak for them myself because I never bought any. Tape and a deck worked fine for me in the past.

    As for it being a possible bad habit...I don't think so as long as you take the training wheels off once you get somewhat decent at the moves and finger positions. I imagine keeping the packets taped/banded together too long would make you dependent on them, just know when to say when.

    My cardistry is pretty novice so take that into account when reading my advice.
    leumas1960, Mr_ARPY and Peter Slim like this.
  3. I did this to learn the Sybil cut the first time I ever tried it, and I can say it helped me. But as Josh above me said, definitely know when to take them off and not become too dependant on them
    leumas1960, Mr_ARPY and Peter Slim like this.
  4. A quick disclaimer. I had been doing cardistry for less than 2 years now which means I am kind of a novice.
    I have never tried that, because i dont drop cards that much and have no problem picking them up anyway, but if you think it might benefit you, go for it. But just as everybody else said, take them off before you develop a bad habit.
  5. It is a sweet idea and I do it when I want to just understand the basic moves rather than having to stop and pick cards up halfway everytime.

    It's rather like the small adjustments we make...instead of usinf a finger to twirl a packet, we use our chins to achieve that necessary bit of extra twirl our finger couldn't manage...

    Once I understand what I need to do and I'm familiar with it however, I remove (try to) any other such unconventional aids.

    Rubber bands are a crutch and try to never use them except when, as I said, you just want to familiarize yourself with the moves.

    Other than that, it's your style, do it as you want. That's the rule of cardistry.
    It doesn't have any rules.

    Make your rule book yourself. :)
  6. It can also depend on the brand of cards you are using. USPCC produced decks tend to be a little more slippery, and harder for packet moves.

    On the other hands, decks produced by Legends or Expert Playing Card Company tend to have cards that cling together better and are much more suitable for cuts involving packets. I'd especially recommend picking up a deck with their Diamond finish (Legends) or Master finish (Expert).

    For more details on their decks, and to see some examples, see my articles here:


    Their edges are also noticeably smoother than a USPCC produced deck (USPCC deck on the left, Legends deck on the right).

  7. I've noticed something though; smooth edges are bad, REALLY bad. Also, legends playing cards tend to grind to a halt, like when an engine is running out of oil, it feels terrible. Can anyone relate?
  8. I'm a little puzzled by what you mean exactly. Could you please explain the reasons for your point of view?

    1. Why exactly are smooth edges bad?

    2. What do you mean when you say that Legends cards "grind to a halt"?
  9. 1. Smooth edges mean the cards slip out of my hands about 40% more, rough edges make otherwise slippery cards manageable

    2. They start clumping aggressively when they're wearing out, in contrast to T11 USPCC cards, which generally stop sliding more smoothly, this is due to them being designed to stick together as packets when they're new, apparently (Jaspas said that), which means they're inherently gonna stick really bad when they're worn, which is just something I personally thinks feels terrible (when they're not sliding, packet cuts are still possible, but every deck can do that).

    please note I like my cards slippery, fan-able, and I like mostly only T11 cards, which means I'm not gonna like anything that doesn't meet those criteria, though I will try other companies cards.

    Legends did feel good at first though, just not for durability, or not when they've been used awhile (I've only tried SOCV3's though).

    Thanks for asking.
  10. Thanks for the clarification. Given your criteria and preferences, I can see why you prefer USPCC produced decks, since Legends decks do tend towards being better for packeting, as you describe.

    That still gives you a lot of options though - there's a lot of decks that are produced by USPCC with the same quality as Theory11 decks. Most Ellusionist decks produced by USPCC, for example, would have comparable quality, since they are printed in the same factory with the same standards and cardstock.

    You mention that as far as Legends goes, you've only tried SOCV3s, which I assume means the School of Cardistry V3 deck? However, that deck wasn't produced by Legends Playing Card Company. The School of Cardistry V2 deck was printed by Legends Playing Card Company in their Emerald finish, but the School of Cardistry V3 deck was printed by a different Asian printing company. In fact, the stock used for the V3 deck is noticeably softer than the previous two versions. The publisher of the School of Cardistry decks, the New Deck Order, isn't too eager to disclose too many details behind the composition of the V3 deck, because they don't want to give away their secrets or inspire copy-cats. They want their cards to be different and to stand out from the competition, given that most other cardistry decks are typically printed with the usual printing companies, and thus feel much the same as each other.

    So I do know for sure that unlike the two previous versions of this deck, the V3 deck is not the Emerald finish from Legends. One of my experienced cardist friends tells me that in his view, the finish and handling of the SOCV3 deck most closely resembles his experience with Legends' Classic finish. However it is not a Legends produced deck.

    NB: For detailed info on the School of Cardistry decks, see my article here:
  11. I did want to try Ellusionist's cards.
  12. I took a look at he article, I do agree that SOCV3 are really cool looking, that's why I even got some, but I found the durability to be lacking. Yes, they're reasonably durable, but I'm really picky about durability. I finally found what I believe to be the most durable deck, which is actually a bee deck, they last forever, and can survive heavy cardistry practice unlike any other.

    You must be a huge fan of Jaspas, to have written so much on him. If you like writing so much, perhaps you should try joining it's basically social media for writers.
  13. Thanks for the reply. Given that the SOC V3 deck isn't produced by Legends Playing Cards, have you actually tried any decks from Legends yet? I think they are very durable, but it also depends a bit on how you define durability.

    I wrote as much as I did about Jaspas not because I'm specifically a fan of his, but because writing detailed articles like that is just what I do as part of my reviews. If you enjoyed reading that, you might also like these articles that I wrote about some other cardists and their decks:

    - Dan & Dave Buck (Art of Play decks):
    - The Virts (Virtuoso deck):
    - Kenneth Aidan Foo (Isometric deck):
    - Patrick Kun (Mirage V3 deck):

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