# Perfect Faro Shuffle Questions

#### Nicholas17

Elite Member
I've finally gotten to the point where I feel like I can perform a perfect faro shuffle pretty easily and consistently. I bought a new pack of cards today, and thought I'd give the old "8 perfect faro shuffles" idea a try, so I performed 8 perfect faro shuffles but the deck wasn't back to the new deck order.

First of all, am I remembering this correctly? I did an internet search but can't seem to find much information on it.

Second of all, does it have to do with "in" and "out faro shuffles? Im not sure I understand the difference. When I do a faro, the top packet winds up having a card on top, and the bottom packet has a card on the bottom. I'm not sure which "style" that is.

I also left the Jokers in. I'm not great at math, but I don't see that making any difference, as long as the shuffles were perfect.

*Update* - I found that there is a wiki page for Faro shuffles. What I gather is that an in shuffle requires 52 shuffles to get back to new deck order, but an out shuffle requires only 8. Am I missing something? Isn't an in shuffle the same as an out shuffle, but just upside down? I have to be missing
something simple here...Math, man...

*Update 2* - It finally clicked in my head, and I'm not sure how to delete this thread. I feel like an idiot. Learn from my stupidity.

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#### AnthonyL

haha glad you got in in the end. the jokers absolutely do matter. adding or subtracting just one card makes a huge deifference.

#### Nicholas17

Elite Member
Absolutely. AND - an in shuffle is not an out shuffle upside down. It's still and in shuffle, and vice versa. Ugh..duh.

#### RickEverhart

##### forum moderator / t11
Moderator
Something that may peek your interest is work from John Quine and Tom Craven on The "Keeper Principle" which has a lot to do with farrows and straddle shuffles. The Keeper Principle allows you to perform many neat card effects.

#### Nicholas17

Elite Member
Thanks! I'll look into that!