The Magician Online

The Magician Online is a live, interactive, online experience - in the comfort of your own home. Starring Dan White. As seen by Ashton Kutcher, Ariana Grande, Chris Rock, James Corden, Jessica Alba, and President Clinton.

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Risk and Reward

Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
31
Grand prairie TX
As of late,ive become more and more aware that many magicians are afraid to get their hands dirty. Everyone wants to end completely clean and have every single thing 100% angle-proof. Almost like they expect to perform real magic.
Like michael caine said
"your a magician not a wizard.You got to get your hands dirty if you want to achieve the impossible."

There is no risk performing for a webcam.Therefor we see tons of riot performances,tivo 2.32432 and most recently pressure.
But ask those guys to raise their hands if they have ever actually performed these effects for people and you get a crowd of full pockets.

Without taking risks we are not going to be able to perform the type of magic that we really want to do.
Lets look at pressure for a second. A ton of people were outraged because the trailer was "misleading".From the arguments it seemed that for most people the method was too simple.And saying things like "man i wasted my money,any idiot could figure this out". But i want you guys to read this quote by steerpike

"When Wayne Houchin released Sinful, he showed an uncut preview of the entire effect from start to finish. Then came a legion of weaselly little twits who decided to use this perspective to reverse engineer the effect. They proceeded to flood YouTube and message boards with their discovery, practically copulating with their keyboards in excitement to show everyone how smart they were. You notice that not many trailers do that anymore.

So now the editors of these trailers are trying to find an adequate balance of footage showing the performer and the audience without giving these little toads enough to reverse engineer the method. At the same time, the magic community at large criticizes them and calls them dishonest for trying to strike up this balance."

P.S.Alexander,this might have not been as well constructed as I would like but the best way I could put it.Any other points youd like to make would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sep 3, 2007
1,231
0
As of late,ive become more and more aware that many magicians are afraid to get their hands dirty. Everyone wants to end completely clean and have every single thing 100% angle-proof. Almost like they expect to perform real magic.
Like michael caine said
"your a magician not a wizard.You got to get your hands dirty if you want to achieve the impossible."

As of late I have become aware that many magicians spout off ideas that they don't understand.
 
Mar 2, 2008
412
0
Wow! I can't agree anymore! I always hate it when i see youtube magicains preforming tricks and then having people admire them. They can't preform live, then there not real preformers.

Really what happends is when people get to excited over a effect and they preform it right away. They choose the gimmicks effects because its "impromtu" and "100% angle proof." There is nothing wrong with preforming those tricks but people either post it on youtube OR they do show it live but have really bad patter to it.

Practice makes perfect! so you can preform the tricks that are awsome but end "dirty" or have a "Angle".
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
So now the editors of these trailers are trying to find an adequate balance of footage showing the performer and the audience without giving these little toads enough to reverse engineer the method. At the same time, the magic community at large criticizes them and calls them dishonest for trying to strike up this balance.

It's funny because I see no problem in engineering trailers the way Theory11 has, so I agree with that statement. The whole purpose of a trailer is to see what your spectators are going to see, and that's exactly what you get. You get enough to see the effect and how the spectators will feel, which since you like that feeling, creates the impulse to buy the effect.

Also, as to reverse engineering a method, I think it's great that magic companies edit their previews the way they do. Let us all be truthful here and admit that if we figured out the method of an effect from the preview, most of us would then not buy the effect. What's the point of waisting the money? Now, there are those that want to support the magic companies, and that's great. I'm just saying, not everyone wants to and the way these previews are engineered allows the magic companies to get the money, instead of handing out the effects for free.

I'd also like to say something to those YouTube/only perform in videos magicians. Frankly, if you're video is of a bought effect from another magician, I don't really care to watch the video. In fact, I pass over those types of videos all of the time. What is the point in recording a video of an effect by a magician, for a bunch of other magicians that know the effect? Is it just for bragging rights on who has the smoothest mechanics or can do the hardest sleights? I definitely don't think so. Plus, the magician that came out with the effect or sleight always performs it better 98% of the time. So, why would we want to watch you? Why not watch the magician that does it best? And these are of course rhetorical questions.

As magicians we should do what we do for spectators, not for other magicians because they aren't really moved by our magic. When you see an effect do you think, "Oh, that's impossible!", or do you think, "I wonder how he did that! That's pretty cool!". I think in our videos we are aiming to much for the wrong crowd. The magicians aren't supposed to entertain other magicians, we are to entertain lay people.

I most certainly think that you can make a video of something new you've created, because that is something that should be shared (unless of course you don't want to share, meanie!), so that other magicians can perform it for other spectators. Anyway, with all that said, put down your camera, pick up your props, and go perform for a live person. Peace!

Tyler

P.S. I know that this was not completely on topic, but I just couldn't stop myself from going on my line of thought. Sorry. (lol)
 
May 8, 2008
1,081
0
Cumbria, UK
Really sorry about this, but I'm going to die in a second.

Wow! I can't agree anymore! I always hate it when i see youtube magicains preforming tricks and then having people admire them. They can't preform live, then there not real preformers.

Really what happends is when people get to excited over a effect and they preform it right away. They choose the gimmicks effects because its "impromtu" and "100% angle proof." There is nothing wrong with preforming those tricks but people either post it on youtube OR they do show it live but have really bad patter to it.

Practice makes perfect! so you can preform the tricks that are awsome but end "dirty" or have a "Angle".

Perform. Per. PER. Not preform. Perform. Ok? Seriously, this annoys me so much, just because I see so many people doing it. We are PERformers that PERform. Right.
*exhales*
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
The secret is never impressive. In fact, learning it often feels like an insult to our intelligence.

I liken it to the bedroom guitarists who spend all their time trying to learn complicated riffing and solos and studying music theory... but they seldom if ever play for anyone. And they just don't get it why people get so excited when I Wannabe Be Sedated plays on the radio.
 
Jun 10, 2008
1,277
0
You little stalker!
Ya i agree. The people on youtube mainly wanna show off by posting a video of "My super awesome pass!". Honestly people, if you're performing for real people, you can just cut the deck and nobody would care.
 
Sep 3, 2007
308
0
I disagree. With the thing about full trailers.

Jay Sankey always does a full demo of his single effect DVDs. I think it's effective. His tricks aren't magician-foolers, they're for lay people. If you are selling more than a secret, then you really don't have to worry about that too much.

I usually know the secret before I buy something so I can make an informed decision about whether it is practical for me and within my skill range. I still buy it because if I'm actually gonna use it, then it's worth dropping a little bit of money.

And isn't it the lesser of two evils to have kids using their logic skills to figure out the trick, then just pirating the DVD?
 
May 31, 2008
1,914
0
The only things I want do achieve a good effect are:

Kill an animal
Harm a person
Harm myself

That's about it. I don't care if I end dirty or clean.

Wait, before the immature jerks chime in, "That's what she said." Ugghh
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Think about this way, you pirate the DVD you actually learn how to properly perform the effect and learn all the nuances that go along with it.

When you "think" you've figured it out.. You pretty much don't learn anything and are most likely wrong.

Tho I personally like knowing that I have the hard copy of what I am learning, and don't have to worry about somebody putting a virus or Trojan on the thing. But that's just the way that I am.
 
Sep 3, 2007
308
0
Steerpike: I know, the lesser of two evils is still evil. I'm not saying that it's right to just figure out tricks and perform them without any compensation to the creator, but I think it's better in the long run for magic then piracy.

Randy: If you figure something out, you have to use your creativity and logic to fill in the blanks of what you didn't figure out. So it's an exercise instead of just straight stealing from the creator. They are inspiring you.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Steerpike: I know, the lesser of two evils is still evil. I'm not saying that it's right to just figure out tricks and perform them without any compensation to the creator, but I think it's better in the long run for magic then piracy.

And you think piracy is caused by not being able to figure out a trailer?
 
Feb 1, 2009
976
0
Manchester, UK.
Steerpike: I know, the lesser of two evils is still evil. I'm not saying that it's right to just figure out tricks and perform them without any compensation to the creator, but I think it's better in the long run for magic then piracy.

I know this isn't directed at me but I just wanted to chime in. Atleast with piracy the user has seen how to perform it correctly w/ intructions and helpful tips and does so, it may not be respecting the artist but it is respecting the trick IMO.
 
Sep 3, 2007
308
0
Steerpike: I don't think it causes piracy directly. I'm saying that I would prefer people spend their time trying to figure out how the trick is done then pirating the DVD. It puts them on the same level as laymen again. Just with the knowledge of a magician.

aJohnson: Ok so either way the creator doesn't got anything. But if you figure it out yourself, you're using your creativity and logic skills to help you figure it out, and these skills are more useful in magic then knowing how to do the trick EXACTLY how the creator does it.

With my way, you can say "They didn't get the creator anything, but at least they put their own spin on it." Because there are usually subtleties and things that you don't pick up on if you just figure it out. So it forces them to come up with something to fill those gaps. The trick that they figured out inspires ideas in their heads and they still get the thrill of being fooled for a few seconds.

You could take it back to the argument about whether we should create our own stuff, or buy other peoples.

This is an interesting discussion. I hope it doesn't die.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Steerpike: I don't think it causes piracy directly. I'm saying that I would prefer people spend their time trying to figure out how the trick is done then pirating the DVD. It puts them on the same level as laymen again. Just with the knowledge of a magician.

First of all, we're getting a bit off the point. How does this in any way contradict my hypothesis about why magicians are using flashier trailers as opposed to the kind you see for Sinful? If anything, it seems to prove me right.

Second, why are you apologizing for trailer weasels?
 
Sep 3, 2007
308
0
I'm saying that I think they should show the whole trick. Like Jay Sankey does in his trailers. The fact that some people can figure out should be irrelevant because dealers and magic creators should be honest and upfront about what we're getting. (wishful thinking?)

If anyone here has ever listened to GoMagicGo and heard their "Hype of the Week" part it's funny and informative.

What do you mean with the second part?
 
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