Sleights that elude you.

DanielH

Elite Member
Apr 21, 2010
64
14
I have mastered the muscle pass and I can do the harada hold better than most which are arguably two of the hardest sleights in coin magic, but for some reason I can't make myself manipulate more than two coins seamlessly in and out of edge grip and it's been something that's been frustrating me for quite a while. So as a conversation starter I was wondering what things you guys may have started to try and just realized "f**k all I'm never going to be able to use that" not to say that you don't still practice it, but a sleight that just breaks your heart because it's just out of reach of doing it successfully in front of people. I'd love to hear what the active users are working on and see if I can offer or receive any help.
 
Jun 18, 2019
543
288
17
West Bengal, India
I have mastered the muscle pass and I can do the harada hold better than most which are arguably two of the hardest sleights in coin magic, but for some reason I can't make myself manipulate more than two coins seamlessly in and out of edge grip and it's been something that's been frustrating me for quite a while. So as a conversation starter I was wondering what things you guys may have started to try and just realized "f**k all I'm never going to be able to use that" not to say that you don't still practice it, but a sleight that just breaks your heart because it's just out of reach of doing it successfully in front of people. I'd love to hear what the active users are working on and see if I can offer or receive any help.
I've been able to do lots of things, from false deals to muscle passes, but a good card palm always eludes me.
I must admit though, that's definitely for the lack of (consistent) trying.
 

DanielH

Elite Member
Apr 21, 2010
64
14
I've been able to do lots of things, from false deals to muscle passes, but a good card palm always eludes me.
I must admit though, that's definitely for the lack of (consistent) trying.

What resources have you tried to learn from? And how many types of palms have you tried? For me some of Daniel madisons work made me feel comfortable with the gamblers cop, but card college vol. 2 or I think roberto giobbi actually has a series of videos on vanishing Inc now that cover palms
 
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Jun 18, 2019
543
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West Bengal, India
What resources have you tried to learn from? And how many types of palms have you tried? For me some of Daniel madisons work made me feel comfortable with the gamblers cop, but card college vol. 2 or I think roberto giobbi actually has a series of videos on vanishing Inc now that cover palms
I have tried Royal Road, ECT, techniques from Revolutionary Card Technique, Vernon's ideas for doing the move and read several hundred (no hyperbole) threads on palming problems, tips, techniques and covers all over the internet. I have tried Gambler's Cop too, in a video Daniel Madison put out.

The main problem is that I just can't get over the fear of an entire card in my hand, out there to be called out any time. Coupled with the fact that I have seen some truly horrible card palming, despite the magician themselves (even magicians in the comments) pretending that their card palm was brilliant (again, I couldn't see the card, no, but it was so obvious that they had a card palmed!). So I'm always afraid that I'll end up something like that.

PS:- I have tried walking around with a card in palm, but again, I'm not getting the sleight down most probably because of insincere efforts. Some day, some day...
 

Ely

Jun 13, 2016
22
18
I have seen some truly horrible card palming, despite the magician themselves (even magicians in the comments) pretending that their card palm was brilliant (again, I couldn't see the card, no, but it was so obvious that they had a card palmed!). So I'm always afraid that I'll end up something like that.

Many times, magicians see a sleight occur and think it's the most obvious thing in the world. I used to be SHOCKED that the final loads in the cups and balls or chop cup would fool people; I mean, the move is almost always unnatural in a certain way. For example, Cosmo brings the cups straight to his pocket when he loads the lemon; it looked so weird to me. But the fact is, laymen never see it nor think of it.

Is it possible that this could be why you think all these palms look awful? You keep thinking about it over and over again until the point where muscle memory fails and the guilt of getting caught amplifies. Tom Mullica used to be deathly afraid of palming a card because the dirty hand would be sitting right on the table. One of his mentors then told him that the day you forget it's there is the day you get away with it.
 
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Jun 18, 2019
543
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West Bengal, India
One of his mentors then told him that the day you forget it's there is the day you get away with it.
True. I'm trying.


Many times, magicians see a sleight occur and think it's the most obvious thing in the world. I used to be SHOCKED that the final loads in the cups and balls or chop cup would fool people; I mean, the move is almost always unnatural in a certain way. For example, Cosmo brings the cups straight to his pocket when he loads the lemon; it looked so weird to me. But the fact is, laymen never see it nor think of it.

Is it possible that this could be why you think all these palms look awful?
I'd have thought the same if my non-magician friend (who isn't even used to seeing a lot of magic) wouldn't have said "Wow, it's so cool how he hid the card in his hand". While that sounds like a compliment, I don't think it really is.
 

Gabriel Z.

Elite Member
Apr 26, 2013
1,704
1,980
36
NY
www.youtube.com
The Overhand Shuffle........... Sometimes we forget about the simplest things. Honestly, how many of us can say we know the Overhand shuffle inside and out the mechanics and little nuances that go with it(Such as having the pinky on the innerend etc.). I would say that about 90-95% on this forum have heard of the Overhand Shuffle. 75-80% know how to perform an Overhand Shuffle. But how many have it truly mastered. I'd say a handful.
 

timsilva

Elite Member
Nov 18, 2007
404
43
California
timsilva.com
I have never been able to do the Clip Shift by Chad Nelson. It drives me insane. I've probably spent over 24 hours attempting to learn and relearn the method, going as slowly as possible, but I never seem to make any progress. The remainder of the deck is never squared up, the deck is always about to fall, and if I ever try to speed it up even a little bit, the cards talk. But I will keep trying every so often, and try to unlearn whatever I learned the wrong way. :rolleyes:
 
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Aug 4, 2020
59
118
46
Bayville, NJ
DPS. I have read and tried it from The Expert at the Card Table. Watched videos of Xavior Spade and Alex Pandrea but it still eludes me. From Pushing through and taking it out smoothly always feels clunky and not natural.
 
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Jan 4, 2021
16
7
I think they all elude me, I cannot flawlessly perform anything... I learned this recently teaching my daughter magic.

I seem to do well, but that's due more to learning to misdirect than skill.
Personally I'd love to do a double lift that a magician doesn't see, but for now I'll settle for the one the spectators don't see.

I kind of settled on "people like it" and have given up on "magicians like it". My loss.
 
Jun 18, 2019
543
288
17
West Bengal, India
I think they all elude me, I cannot flawlessly perform anything... I learned this recently teaching my daughter magic.

I seem to do well, but that's due more to learning to misdirect than skill.
Personally I'd love to do a double lift that a magician doesn't see, but for now I'll settle for the one the spectators don't see.

I kind of settled on "people like it" and have given up on "magicians like it". My loss.
This is an interesting topic on its own, regardless, there was this story told by Ben Earl on Discourse in Magic podcasts, where he mentions attending a magic lecture, and in the audience, there were two people in the back of the room watching the magician giving the lecture, who seemed to be magicians themselves. When the magician performed a DPS, both of them immediately went (excited) "Did you see that? That was incredible. That DPS..." -- "Yeah, can you do that?" -- "Oh no I can't, but what he did was so brilliant...".

Then a magician who came after that performed something else, which they didn't know how. When it was explained, both of them went (disappointed) "Ah, I missed it. Did you miss it too?"-- "Yeah, I missed it."

It seems that they think they missed the sleight by chance, that they blinked or weren't paying attention. The truth is that the second magician designed the effect in such a way, that it was intended for them to ''miss'' it, and make the sleight truly invisible. In my opinion, the second magician has put in more effort and is better at sleight of hand too. Because they delved so deep into the sleight itself, they picked out every nut and bolt of the sleight to figure out where and when it's most vulnerable, when it's secure, which hand moves so as to arouse suspicion, which hand should move first, how to guide the eyes of the spectators and so on until they could design an effect which would make the sleight truly invisible.

The point is that magicians aren't always the best judges of sleight of hand (unless they realise this disconnect between hidden sleights and invisible sleights themselves). Therefore "magicians like it" shouldn't really be the absolute golden standard, even if you are looking for pure technical proficiency.

PS: Check out the entire podcast over at Discourse in Magic. Ben Earl has some fabulous thoughts on the sleight of hand.
 
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Jun 3, 2020
72
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One hand top palm is one that I've been practicing but it's taking forever. Feels like I should have it mastered by now. Not even close.
 
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Jul 18, 2020
4
0
Aaah so many! I cannot seem to master a OHTP, clipshift or the top shot. The DPS is something I feel i will never accomplish as it always feels like two separate actions whenever i do it
 
Mar 14, 2019
37
17
The duck change. Practiced it for 4 weeks straight everyday for about 3 hours per day. Gave up on it. Picked up practicing it again about 6 months later with the " I'm going to get this once and for all" attitude. Never gonna happen. It's still horrible. I mean like weak,flying apart in the air horrible.
 
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Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,798
197
35
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
One hand top palm is one that I've been practicing but it's taking forever. Feels like I should have it mastered by now. Not even close.
Maybe you have mastered it... but sometimes as magicians we think is never good enough...but in reality is great! if you use the sleights to perform for people... maybe you don´t need it to be perfect...

Remember... you will never be truly ready... only ready enough...
 

timsilva

Elite Member
Nov 18, 2007
404
43
California
timsilva.com
+1 on both the pinky count and the duck change. The duck change in particular is frustrating. My success rate is like 1 in 10. The idea that some people can hit this 9 out of 10 times is mind-numbing to me.
 
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