Slick vs Dry Decks

[ChristopherR2]

As I continue to practice I'm beginning to notice the different nuances between decks.

The majority of the time I practice with my Bee's which are a dry deck. The cards hardly slide around and it's great because it helps me focus on getting the moves down for something like a Sybil.

However when I switch to a slick deck like my Monarchs, the cards slide around all over the place, and eventually end up on the floor. This is specially true for the Revolution cut. It's easy for me to understand the moves that make up a specific cut but I'm having a hard time trying to understand packet control when it relates to a slick deck.

I understand the importance of practice, practice, practice. However is there any other insights out there can can give me a better understanding of packet control when working with a slick deck?

 

[Duncan F.]

That's good that you're starting to notice the difference between different finishes. Stickier decks are great for learning new cuts with because the cards hold together. However, once you learn the mechanics, it's important to practice with a slick deck so that you can then understand packet control. Sadly this is something you just need to get a feel for with practice, so I can't really give you any advice, but the revolution cut should be pretty easy to control with the right contact points and pressure. I use my pinky to stabilize the rotating packet and stop the cards from sliding. Finger placement on the rotating packet is also important so that the cards don't slip. I can make a quick video if it will help.

Also you can break in a slick deck so that they hold a little better. If the cards are brand new, I will usually spend a couple hours breaking the deck in. I use faros, springs, and various shuffles that bend the cards. This softens them up and makes them much easier to handle. Every deck needs to be broken in before use. Some more than others.

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

As I continue to practice I'm beginning to notice the different nuances between decks.

The majority of the time I practice with my Bee's which are a dry deck. The cards hardly slide around and it's great because it helps me focus on getting the moves down for something like a Sybil.

However when I switch to a slick deck like my Monarchs, the cards slide around all over the place, and eventually end up on the floor. This is specially true for the Revolution cut. It's easy for me to understand the moves that make up a specific cut but I'm having a hard time trying to understand packet control when it relates to a slick deck.

I understand the importance of practice, practice, practice. However is there any other insights out there can can give me a better understanding of packet control when working with a slick deck?

I found this on the interwebs: (hope this gives you ideas on what cards (and finishes) to look for for different aspects)

Bicycle: Air-Cushion Finish.
And "Air-Cushion" Is a "pocket" of air, used to absorb shock.
An "Air-Cushion" is used in most trucks, and other vehicles.
For example, when a truck is climbing a mountain,
it uses shocks to help absorb the "Shock" of the bouncing.
This is where Air-Cushion comes into play.
The air cusioning helps the shocks to absorb the "Bounce",
and gives the vehicle extra spring. ( For big hills, etc. )

Same goes for Bicycle Cards.
They Bicycle cards are manufactured with an air-cushion.
If you notice in a new pack when first opened,
you can see groups of 10 cards at a time, divided
with a slightly different colour in the breaks. This is the air-cushion.
All this does is give the Bicycles that extra "spring"
when performing magic, and/or flourishes.
Tally-Ho's and bicycle are pretty equal in quality however.
We will get to that.
________________________________________ ________________

Tally-Ho Playing Cards: Linoid Finish.
Basically what a "Linoid" Finish is. Is a life-extender.
It adds an extra coat onto the cards to keep them from
getting sticky. It also holds the quality to where fans can
be executed more easily. This is why in a new pack of Tally-Ho's,
the cards a extremly stiff. This is caused by the Linoid finish.
Tally-Ho's, like Bicycles. Are GREAT for using in card magic.
( Overall opinion from magicians ) They are pretty much equal
in quality. The Tally-Ho's will most likley last longer,
whilst the Bicycles will spring better.
( general statment with slight opinion )
________________________________________ _______________

Bee Playing cards: Cambric Finish.
Cambric is a cotton like matirial that can also be found
in very expensive bed-sheets. Cambric is atually a "Woven" cotten.
If you notice the design in Bee playing cards,
it is a Woven design. This is because of the Cambric finish.
I am not saying that Bee's are made of cotten,
I am saying it uses the matirial, and is woven the same way.
This is why ( if you notice ) Bee's seem to be soft when shuffling.
Cambric allows cards to be bent more, without giving to much-
damage to the cards. The Cambric in my opinion seems
to absorb alot pressure on the cards,
to make for a better shuffle.

I will add something not covered on this post, the Monarchs deck uses Magic Finish which gives it that "slick" handling and helps decks keep longer in humid conditions.
Hope this helps!

 

[ChristopherR2]

I found this on the interwebs: (hope this gives you ideas on what cards (and finishes) to look for for different aspects)


I will add something not covered on this post, the Monarchs deck uses Magic Finish which gives it that "slick" handling and helps decks keep longer in humid conditions.
Hope this helps!

Wow, that was pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. I learned a lot.

 

[Duncan F.]

I found this on the interwebs: (hope this gives you ideas on what cards (and finishes) to look for for different aspects)

Well that was all a bunch of bull. This is why you can't trust what you read on the internet. "Air Cushion" refers to the dimples on the cards that are pressed into the deck. These dimples allow air in-between the cards so that they glide easier and it also helps them stick together. It has nothing to do with a "shock" And Bikes are hardly equal in quality to Tally's.

Tally-Ho's Linoid finish used to refer to a type of oil that was used in the finish. Also the stock was much thicker and snappier than Bikes. I read that they discontinued the Linoid finish when they moved the factory to Erlanger, so I'm not sure what Linoid means on the new Tallys now.

Bee's are printed on Aristocrat stock which is why they are so soft. It has nothing to do with cotton being woven into card. I don't know a lot about what the cambric finish is, I believe the dimple pattern is a little different. Like I said before, when the USPCC moved to Erlanger they got rid of a lot of their stocks and finishes. If you try to order a custom deck, there are only 2 finishes to pick from; Air Cushion and Performance. However, Theory 11 claims to have a "909 finish" so there could be more.

Fun fact: the numbers such as "808" actually refer to the back design, not the finish. 808 is the Rider Back. 807-801 all refer to the different back designs Bicycle has used over the years.

And just so everyone is clear, Finish only refers to the laminate/coating that is applied to the card. The paper the card is printed on is the stock.

#themoreyouknow

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

Well that was all a bunch of bull. This is why you can't trust what you read on the internet. "Air Cushion" refers to the dimples on the cards that are pressed into the deck. These dimples allow air in-between the cards so that they glide easier and it also helps them stick together. It has nothing to do with a "shock" And Bikes are hardly equal in quality to Tally's.

Tally-Ho's Linoid finish used to refer to a type of oil that was used in the finish. Also the stock was much thicker and snappier than Bikes. I read that they discontinued the Linoid finish when they moved the factory to Erlanger, so I'm not sure what Linoid means on the new Tallys now.

Bee's are printed on Aristocrat stock which is why they are so soft. It has nothing to do with cotton being woven into card. I don't know a lot about what the cambric finish is, I believe the dimple pattern is a little different. Like I said before, when the USPCC moved to Erlanger they got rid of a lot of their stocks and finishes. If you try to order a custom deck, there are only 2 finishes to pick from; Air Cushion and Performance. However, Theory 11 claims to have a "909 finish" so there could be more.

Fun fact: the numbers such as "808" actually refer to the back design, not the finish. 808 is the Rider Back. 807-801 all refer to the different back designs Bicycle has used over the years.

And just so everyone is clear, Finish only refers to the laminate/coating that is applied to the card. The paper the card is printed on is the stock.

#themoreyouknow

Haha oh well then. (btw that was from an ellusionist forum so double thumbs up for them )

 

[Duncan F.]

Haha oh well then. (btw that was from an ellusionist forum so double thumbs up for them )

Haha! The world of stocks and finishes is a very complicated one. There is barely any information available, and the move from Cincinnati to Erlanger changed things a lot. I only know what I know because I've been around for a while.

Fun Fact about Ellusionist decks: Their UV500 finish actually referred to the stock as it would glow under UV light (blacklight). When they moved to Erlanger, USPCC decided to discontinue the stock. E was given the option to buy the stock and keep printing their cards on it, but it proved WAY too expensive, so they switch to the Airflow finish which is the Air Cushion finish on a stock that was the same thickness as the UV stock. I believe E still uses this stock, but I think they have switched to the Performance Coating in their more recent decks. I know this because Brad sent out an email to explain to us why they no longer printed cards with the UV500 finish.

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

Fun Fact about Ellusionist decks: Their UV500 finish actually referred to the stock as it would glow under UV light (blacklight).

Why do you need glow-in-the-dark decks? One word: Magic.

 

[Duncan F.]

Why do you need glow-in-the-dark decks? One word: Magic.

IDK. I think it would be cool as hell to see a cardistry video done under blacklight with a UV deck. Damn it, now I need to make a video like that lol

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

IDK. I think it would be cool as hell to see a cardistry video done under blacklight with a UV deck. Damn it, now I need to make a video like that lol

Agreed! Wouldn't you need a certain camera to shoot in a dark setting like that?

 

[Duncan F.]

Agreed! Wouldn't you need a certain camera to shoot in a dark setting like that?

You definitely couldn't use your iphone. You would need a camera that can work well in low light conditions. I think most DSLRs could do the trick.

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

You definitely couldn't use your iphone.

Well, poo.