Stop performing for your video camera! Or else!

Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
I kind of addressed this in a Cerca Trova post, but let's go more in-depth.

Yes, let's.

Magic is an art, right? Every piece of art has three componenets to it, three legs of a stool, if you will. There is the artist who creates the art--the art cannot exist without sombody creating it. There is the art itself, which is obvious (I hope). And then there is the element which I've noticed that most people forget; the audience. In case you skipped over that last portion, I'll repeat it. Audience.

Just as a stool cannot stand on only two legs, art cannot exist without each of these elements.

Virtually every video that has been posted on this site in the media section and on youtube lacks that third and essential element of art. People who observe it. Sure, one may argue that people are watching it on computers, several hundred miles away, but then they're not really watching it. If one's objective is to make a film, then good job, see you at Cannes! If you are trying to perform magic I would like to remind you of one tiny detail: the performance.

This is, after all, a performance art. Take, for example, somebody reciting Shakespeare to only himself. There's another word for that--crazy. You're not crazy, are you?

How can we claim that this is an art if we don't treat it as one? Some say that the art of magic is dying. Well, whose damn fault is that?

Isn't part of the appeal of magic that it happens right there in front of a spectator? Why do any of us do this if not to amaze somebody. Don't drop twenty bucks on a DVD and gimmick just to show "D34th_K4O5mann666" in his moldy basement your prowess as a loser who's too scared to actually try and amaze somebody. Take some damned initiative.

Point being, of course, if you're going to post a video, make it one of a live performance.

Please and thanks!
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Seems a bit Extreme...

Yet extreme is meaning for change... Which is just what magic needs.


I don't see a problem with people performing in front of a camera. It is a starting point, but I see what you mean. Move on.

If you are using the camera to practice and to see the angles and such, that is great. Keep going it, it is a great tool. I see that you arn't talking about this type of camera "performance" though.

I agree, to an extent.

Keenan
 
Here's the problem with your post, some people don't have access to a portable camcorder to use out on the streets. Many of the videos posted are done with a webcam, and unless they want to carry their entire computer with them as the perform the only way for them to show their skill is for their camera.

As for others, as Keenan said, it's a starting point, and a darn good one too. They can look back through the camera and see what they did wrong. Also, many times a camera man will catch a flash of exposure that the spectators did not, and this means that the magician can't upload his/her video.

We can't force people to do anything, I say congratulate everyone on their videos so far and encourage them to get out and perform!

Great job everyone!

Mitchell
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
Hows about a mirror?

Besides, who needs to post a video at all?

Just do it. Just perform. If you fail, learn from your mistakes and practice more. I'm not saying that practicing with a camera is bad, but performing with one exclusively is bad. Actors practice lines in front of cameras all the time, but practice is not the same as the art of performing. Read the post. I'm talking about art and performances. That's different from practicing.

What I am referring to that I see all too much on the net is that people are making crappy vidoes and passing them as performances. These people have probably never actually performed for anybody other than their mothers (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Another problem that I'm finding is that people don't ever actually read the post and just make assumptions about the diliberately attention-grabbing title.
 
Hows about a mirror?

Besides, who needs to post a video at all?

Just do it. Just perform. If you fail, learn from your mistakes and practice more. I'm not saying that practicing with a camera is bad, but performing with one exclusively is bad. Actors practice lines in front of cameras all the time, but practice is not the same as the art of performing. Read the post. I'm talking about art and performances. That's different from practicing.

What I am referring to that I see all too much on the net is that people are making crappy vidoes and passing them as performances. These people have probably never actually performed for anybody other than their mothers (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Another problem that I'm finding is that people don't ever actually read the post and just make assumptions about the diliberately attention-grabbing title.
I read your post, many times. I find mirrors don't give the advantage to practicing properly. It doesn't allow you to go back and nitpick what you did wrong. And who says they don't perform? Each time you perform you don't need a camera. You shouldn't be performing exclusively to capture your performance on film or tape.

Correct me if I'm reading wrong, but your logic doesn't make sense to me.

Mitchell
 
Aug 31, 2007
8
0
I agree with Mitchell. You don't know if the people that post videos perform for people or not. You seem to be just assuming that if someone posts magic videos then they don't perform for others. Forgive me if that doesn't make any sense.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,229
0
Yes, I agree with you on this. but one thing, what about peoplle who don;t have video cameras and only a webcam? I am one orf the people that would film, but I don;t have anyone to film for me, and it's for the sake of convieneince.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
I read your post, many times. I find mirrors don't give the advantage to practicing properly. It doesn't allow you to go back and nitpick what you did wrong. And who says they don't perform? Each time you perform you don't need a camera. You shouldn't be performing exclusively to capture your performance on film or tape.

Correct me if I'm reading wrong, but your logic doesn't make sense to me.

Mitchell

Of course you don't need a camera every time you perform. You never need a camera when you perform. When you perform, it should be for a live audience.

How is that confusing?

Now, take a few breaths and calm down...
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
I agree with Mitchell. You don't know if the people that post videos perform for people or not. You seem to be just assuming that if someone posts magic videos then they don't perform for others. Forgive me if that doesn't make any sense.

The next video you see, try this:

Is there another person in the frame of the camera participating in the magic? If you can answer this question with a "yes I can," then it's a live performance. If the magician is adressing nobody, or is not making noise at all, performing to a background of bad emo music, then it is most likely not a live performance. Videos such as the latter described should be permanantly banned.

Make sense?
 
Aug 31, 2007
263
0
Maybe we should think in a revolutionary way:

What if we could perform successfully for video cameras? Make video performances interactive and just as amazing as live performances?

Be creative and think of ways, ya?

- harapan. magic!
 
I think a camera would be a great practice tool, and to some extent (invisible palm style tricks) it would be ok to film, just to show people who know the trick, how you handle the effect.

I have never used a camera in my life so I can't really make an informed say.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
Maybe we should think in a revolutionary way:

What if we could perform successfully for video cameras? Make video performances interactive and just as amazing as live performances?

Be creative and think of ways, ya?

- harapan. magic!

Hey man! Great idea. You do that. And I'll go perform for real people. And then get some Wendy's. Gotta love that spicy chicken sandwich!
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
I think a camera would be a great practice tool, and to some extent (invisible palm style tricks) it would be ok to film, just to show people who know the trick, how you handle the effect.

I have never used a camera in my life so I can't really make an informed say.

I kind of feel that this is the problem. Why not actually show people?
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,699
1
31
so what you saying is..if your going to put a video up,you need to perform for someone?
What about If you are alone or injured and cant go out to perform.Web cams are the best way to go.
What about if it's like invisible palm andyou just want to get it on tape right quick.
Just let people do things their way.

I assumed that most people here have a rudimentary understanding of the basic principles of the English language to understand the difference between practice and performance.

If you do understand English (of course you do!), read this:

Are you just arguing for argument's sake? If you are injured, I think there may exist larger problems than an inability to go outside and perform.

If you are so bent on producing crappy performances, be my guest.

I'll go out and amaze everybody who you're too scared to confront face-to-face.

Get well soon!
 
Sep 2, 2007
221
0
I don't see the problem. When I go out and perform for people, those people are my audience. When I perform in front of a camera, the internet is my audience. I don't see why my live audience has to be present in my videos for my internet audience to appreciate the art.

I mean, if I want to show you guys something that has to contain spectators because they're directly and intricately involved with the trick, that's one thing. . . Warp One, on the other hand, doesn't really involve spectators as anything but just that. . . spectators. . . and so translates well onto camera and the internet. But I don't have to do a vanishing coins routine in front of an audience to make it translate well onto the web. Am I making sense? What you're suggesting would be the equivalent of a filmmaker filming an audience watching his movie and somehow injecting that into the film. . . it's just not necessary. When you're performing for people at computers, yes, they are in fact really watching. I'm not sure I understand why you think they're not. I know I'm really watching whenever I watch magic online. And if they're not watching if it's just you and your camera, why would they suddenly watch you when you're in front of people? They're still just watching a video on the internet.

With things like television, the internet, film, books, etc., it is entirely plausible to have an audience that is on the other side of the world and still appreciates the art, and I don't think filming all your magic videos in front of live spectators will necessarily enhance that art for your real audience. . . which, in the case of web videos, is people on the web.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't see the problem. When I go out and perform for people, those people are my audience. When I perform in front of a camera, the internet is my audience. I don't see why my live audience has to be present in my videos for my internet audience to appreciate the art.

I mean, if I want to show you guys something that has to contain spectators because they're directly and intricately involved with the trick, that's one thing. . . Warp One, on the other hand, doesn't really involve spectators as anything but just that. . . spectators. . . and so translates well onto camera and the internet. But I don't have to do a vanishing coins routine in front of an audience to make it translate well onto the web. Am I making sense? What you're suggesting would be the equivalent of a filmmaker filming an audience watching his movie and somehow injecting that into the film. . . it's just not necessary. When you're performing for people at computers, yes, they are in fact really watching. I'm not sure I understand why you think they're not. I know I'm really watching whenever I watch magic online. And if they're not watching if it's just you and your camera, why would they suddenly watch you when you're in front of people? They're still just watching a video on the internet.

With things like television, the internet, film, books, etc., it is entirely plausible to have an audience that is on the other side of the world and still appreciates the art, and I don't think filming all your magic videos in front of live spectators will necessarily enhance that art for your real audience. . . which, in the case of web videos, is people on the web.

I guess Mr. longman got PWND..
Yes,,t.v or the internet is your audience.
Lets say your perform infront of someone and you are recording it..but you flashed to the person and not the camera..
"hahahaha"the person is laughing at you but the camera guys is like "what tha..?"
see my point.With a mirror you cant practice right because you might be looking in a mirror and not at your hands but you nailed it..and then you go perform to a person and when you look at your hands..you screw up.with cameras ,it's easier to practice because you can get the right angles and not looking at the screen and later see what you did wrong.
I do this at my practice session.

~Victor~
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
I'm with Longman.

A video camera is an excellent practise tool, allowing you to evaluate your performance. However, there is simply no good reason to stick a video of yourself doing magic tricks onto the web, other than to get feedback from the people watching. You might be reading this thinking "that's a pretty sodding good reason right there!", but the fact is you are going to get feedback/reactions from a live audience too. And of course, the live audience does not have the opportunity to sit there and watch your video over and over and over again trying to figure out how it is done.

We've all seen comments on Youtube videos along the lines of "look at 2:17, u can c he hsa 2 cards!!"

Magic doesn't really stand up to repeated viewings, especially not from a fixed perspective! You can't misdirect a camera, and misdirection is one of the single most important skills of the magician. It is very difficult to present to a camera, and presentation is an integral part of any magic trick. So even if you post a technically competent "solo video", you are not really demonstrating the skills that make you a magician. So, what's the point?

On a personal note, once I realised that I was actually performing to a decent standard, and that at least some of my ideas, tricks and sleights were original (to my knowledge anyway), I stopped even thinking about posting them online. The reason why? I want to be special. I want my magic to be unique. I want to be able to catch people off guard with something they haven't seen before! And I know how easy it is to reverse engineer even the most devious trick by watching it being done a few times - I don't want that to happen to my magic!

All you get from posting videos of you doing tricks online is - best case scenario - some ego stroking from either your magician peers and/or laymen. This is at the expense of people spending time trying to figure out how it is done - and probably succeeding.

XCM is exempt from this argument. By all means, throw your videos online, put a grungy backing track to it - if the music is decent it may actually make the video bearable!
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results