Submit a trick: Reality check!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sharkshi66, May 9, 2010.

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  1. I listened to a podcast earlier about Dan White and JB about the Submit a Trick portion of the website. Honestly, I was quite uneasy when JB said that, "I'm one of the guys who run through the tricks submitted everyday."(Maybe I wasn't that close in this statement of what he said but lets continue) "And I watch each video from 3-5 seconds then I move on. When I see a submission using a sponge ball and cards, I immediately click NEXT."

    Hold up!...So from 3-5 seconds did JB see the trick?did he see the routine?Probably not.With respect for your website and your team,JB's statement really sparks some intrigue at my part. Maybe before I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE WORK OF OTHER ARTISTS, BUT NOW IS DIFFERENT!!!!!!What you did of neglecting to fully see the creativity of other artists ain't really living up to RESPECTING THEIR WORK CLAIM THAT I READ WHEN HE POSTED A STATEMENT IN A RESPECT-related thread.

    IF YOU REALLY RESPECTED THEIR WORK, WATCH THE FULL PERFORMANCE!!!!!!I respect Dan White for enduring to watch and staying positive about each submission that he comes across, despite the number of submissions everyday.I should say that not watching the FULL PERFORMANCE of an artist who spent a lot of time in creating the method for his/her effect is DISRESPECTFUL.

    Its unfair!THe artists spent 100 hours in making the effect, and when he submits it to t11, the facilitators spend 2 seconds on it and lets the effect disappear.Is that fair?OK!I GET IT, NOT ALL THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED CAN BE TURNED INTO PRODUCTS. BUT STILL THE SWEAT AND BLOOD OF EACH ARTISTS RUN ALIVE IN EACH EFFECT THEY COME-UP WITH AND DESERVES TO BE VIEWED FULLY AND DESERVES TO BE GIVEN RESPECT.

    According to the podcast, the difference of t11 and other magic websites is that t11 HAS A TEAM!THE BEST TEAM IN THE INDUSTRY!Well, if you can't treat other creators outside your so-called team with RESPECT IN EVEN THE SMALLEST MANNERS, you should stop calling your team the best...

    SO what if there are many submissions?so what if it comes by the millions?Isn't it part of your jobs as t11 staff?There are millions of aspiring CREATORS IN THE WORLD WHO ARE PRAYING TO BE APPRECIATED AND RESPECTED FOR THEIR CREATIONS AND WORK. AND IT WOULD BE SAD TO NOTE IF t11 WILL BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO PREVENTS THESE CREATORS FROM RECEIVING THE RESPECT THAT IS DUE TO THEM,EVEN IN-FRONT AND BEHIND THE CAMERA.

    Hope this opinion opens other's eyes in share what I see. If not?see you next time...
     
  2. sharkshi,

    I don't watch every submission that comes in - that responsibility is on the shoulders of our creative team led by Dan White. But for the videos I do watch, I have a very clear eye for the type of effect and content we look for. We produce products and effects that we believe in, and we have very strict standards of what we look for. 9 times out of 10, I could tell you if an effect is a good fit for us within 30 seconds of viewing it - just like you can tell if a singer is good or not based on a few notes.

    That is not, however, what our review process is like. Every effect submitted to this site gets reviewed, in full, by Dan White and our creative team. We judge based on review of the full video, and we contact those artists when we feel it is a good fit. Just last week, we released the Shinobi Control by Emran Riaz. Emran submitted it through our submission queue, and less than a month later, it was released.
     
  3. hmmm

    This also make me wonder about the statements made, considering they only have 2 card sections and one coin section....

    No support for everyday object magic, mentalism, rope and so forth and so forth.

    If they're tired of card/coin effects being submitted maybe they should try and support other close up styles to attract them.

    Just my 2 cents....
     
  4. I'm not quite sure what you mean - within the 1-on-1 section, there are (as you mentioned) 2 card sections and one coin section - but there's also a "General Magic" category that is magic with everyday objects - rubberbands, napkins, thread, bills. This is in addition to our DVD productions, which are overwhelmingly not just card magic.

    However, you do bring up a GREAT point about mentalism, as this is something we definitely would like to increase our focus on and bring more attention to over the coming months. We've recently been working with Luke Jermay on some exciting new projects, and we hope that he (among others) can assist in that endeavor.
     
  5. Also Sharkshi a lot of stuff might be bogus crap, something learned from text already in existence that doesn't need it's own dvd.
     
  6. was with dan white the other day and I personally watched him look through some submissions. He takes it seriously just like any other job and yes, watches the whole video (one of them i believe was over 10 min. and he studied it carefully). So don't worry, nobody is being disrespected here...just take it easy and love life. :p
     
  7. This sounds like the entertainment industry to me... Its not all lollipops and cupcakes. Its pretty cut throat. And that's not a bad thing. That's how you get the best of the best products out there. With audition tapes for almost all the rest of the arts, to my knowledge, a lot of the time your tape is not viewed all the way through... Maybe the first 5-10 seconds. Especially if there are 100 or so more tapes waiting to plow through the rest of the day. Bayme may not watch the entire video of your submissions... He's a busy man to my knowledge... Doing so much more... So are the rest. But as I heard, someone is watching the submissions all the way through. The ones from the best of the best to the worst of the worst. Sure if your effect is what Theory wants, they will have seen it and will get to work on it. If not, create something bigger and better... Don't put all your eggs in a basket... Become an artist, and that requires hard work and familiarity to the word "No."
     
  8. You know, I have watched these threads for the past couple of weeks pop up that are all anti-Theory11 and their overall vision. I see JB getting ragged on constantly, and all of his responses are clear and logical, with no condescension what so ever. I would just like to say that it is because of Theory11 that I got back into magic. I see what they want, even though sometimes it doesn't work for them all the time, and I like where it is going. I could hang out at any other form, but this place just makes me feel welcome. Whenever I have asked a question, I am flooded with responses. I think people just need to let theory11 go their direction and stop judging. And if you do want to judge, branch off and do it better. Maybe I am being a bit too hard, but that is how I feel.
     
  9. Typing in all caps does not add any clarity or weight to your message. It just makes it annoying to read.
     
  10. SUBMIT A TRICK is so-called for a reason. If the button read, "post a video of your trick for some feedback and advice," then your complaint would have some value to it. As it stands however, think of it this way:

    Johnny has been playing basketball for about 9 months, and decides to go to the LA Lakers open try outs. Johnny steps out onto the courts dribbles some, goes up for a layup, and in less then 1 minute, the coach says to Johnny, "ok Johnny, thanks for coming out, you can go home."

    You better believe it that the coach of the LA Lakers knows what is and isn't professional BBALL player material, and that he would be able to make that kind of assessment after watching a minute of a very new amateur's play.

    In a sense, the Submit a trick button is there to give people with potential the opportunity to take one step closer to being a professional magician. You better believe that the team at T11 knows what is and isn't good, and can make that judgement fairly quickly.

    Honestly, if the team that decides which trick they will accept/ reject, spent 5 minutes watching each video and deciding after that, I would have to think, "wow.... these pros need that much time realizing which tricks are good or not?" And I would laugh.


    I don't know how many failed tricks you have submitted, but believe me, if they did get rejected, it is not because "they didnt spend enough time looking at my trick," it is because your trick just wasn't good enough and it was so easy to realize that, that they only needed to see the first 3-5 seconds of it.

    Harsh, but true.
     
  11. I think the problem here is this sharkshi666, and a few others, are trying their hardest to make negative comments about T11. I have not noticed one positive comment from sharkshi recently.

    Its ok to have constructive criticism, but in this thread, and the one sharkshi made about Crush, he has overlooked many of the simple, and obvious factors. If he took the time to understand and notice that T11 is literally one of the biggest magic communities and businesses in the world at the moment, maybe he would see it just isn't as easy as it appears to be.

    The fact that Mr Bayme and the other members of T11 take the time to sift through, what i can imagine is hundreds, of trick submissions a week, shows straight off that they are trying their best to contribute what they can to magic as well as run a business around it.

    Very few of the major companies and organisations in any creative field offer the ability for its community to submit a creation in the hopes of making it big.

    It just doesnt work so simply, if T11 published one in every 10 tricks that came along the quality would degrade overall, and they would lose a lot of money.

    There is just too many hopefuls/wannabes (depending on their attitude) who think it is as easy as sending off a vaguely unique idea to a busy organisation. If somebody puts in enough effort, and enough passion to their work, they will eventually succeed, one way or another.

    You must be forgetting that the T11 team are all professional, working magicians, and have been in the industry for years, they know what they are talking about and they know what is good and what is not, for after all, they have been through the stages of learning that everyone else has.

    Perhaps it is just jealousy, or over critical analysis, but to shun the simple facts in this and other arguments without taking their value into account is biased and rather childish.

    Apologies if i came across too strongly,

    Steve
     
  12. Poor Form, Bayme.

    I do understand that you are busy Bayme, but if you start watching a video the least could do is watch the whole thing. If you dont start watching it fine, but as soon as you click on the video I think you should watch the whole thing.

    Just my thoughts.

    J.
     
  13. You know here are my thoughts about this whole hulabaloo. It is pretty much summed up in this video by egoraptor.

    Mr. Literal

    Y'll are taking words too literally.
     
  14. JDEN,

    In an ideal world where there are more than 24 hours in a day, absolutely. However, in reality, we get countless submissions every single day and the vast majority involve the same double lifts, the same classic color changes, and the same French Drops. It's very easy to tell, very quickly, whether something is original. I would relate it to showing a supposedly new sleight to Jason England. 9 times out of 10, immediately after you demonstrate it, he could tell you not only where it was first published, but what page number it appeared on.

    To be clear, however - this is precisely why we have a very strong and very passionate core team. Unlike ANY other magic company out there, we have specific individuals who are tasked with watching every single submission that comes in, in full.

    To repeat that: every single video we receive gets reviewed, in full, by our creative team. I think that speaks for itself in demonstrating how much we value those submissions. Not only do we contact those that we think are a good fit for us, but often we contact those that we think have potential. At that point, we pair the artist up with our creative team in attempt to further refine and polish the effect.

    To clarify our process, this is how it specifically works. Every single day we get lots and lots of submissions. Each of them gets viewed, in full, by appropriate members of our staff. When we see something that we think has potential, we discuss it internally to establish a consensus. At that time, we often send it to Jason England, Chris Kenner, and other members of our crew to check on historical references - if it has been done before. If that results in a thumbs up, we pursue it. It's not a simple process, and it's not over in an afternoon. It involves multiple people - certainly not just myself - and an unbelievable amount of time, creative focus, and priority to attend to. But to find those gems - it's worth every moment.
     
  15. Guys,

    Just to step in here - we take all of your submissions seriously and all of them are watched completely. We try to see potential in everything. However, usually submissions fall into 4 categories:

    1. Not good or Not original
    2. Decent but not quite there yet
    3. Great - but not the right fit for T11 (due to scheduling, props, method, etc)
    4. Great and a great fit for us

    It is very rare that we get a 4 - but when we do, you will eventually see it. When I watch these videos, I know the effort that it takes to make them. I know how important they are to their makers, why? Because that used to be me. I made videos and wrote up of all the things I came up with. I cared so much about my ideas and the videos became very personal as if they reflected me and who I was. Sometimes they were good, most of the time they were crap. I still do this anytime I come up with something. So, please know we all care about your ideas. It's a small community, and I believe we all have the potential to come up with amazing things.

    Keep up the good work, and keep sending your submissions. See you there.

    Dan
     
  16. In the entertainment industry, hundreds of scripts, auditions, submissions are made on a daily basis and are sent to casting agents, producers, even the actors themselves.

    For the auditions, they are looking for something specific, and will stop you mid-sentence if they don't like what they see. It is not the casting agent being rude, it is them knowing what they look for. Same goes with T11.

    I submitted my Harbor Change to JB 3 times before finally being contacted by JB himself. The first two submissions were utter crap. And with help from some buddies o' mine, I made a 3rd submission, and got to the point right away.

    If you have a true gem...it will get the attention it deserves...

    Mike
     
  17. i think Bayme and Dan would take submissions seriously and i think you guys should stop having a go at them, but Bayme, you said if you see a french drop you will not watch it because it has no originality, what if that's part of an INSANE coin routine?
    french drop can be used for soooo many things so you should still watch the whole thing, also how did this get on? http://media.theory11.com/2359-On-a-Boat if you are still reading this and haven't clicked the link, its zachmonky "singing" on a boat not magic related. Thats my thought

    - Zac
     
  18. Zac,

    I didn't mean to imply that I wouldn't watch it - I meant that we wouldn't produce a product based on it. To answer the question, if in fact that was just one part of an insane coin routine, that fact would certainly be noticed when the video was viewed in full by our team.

    Aside from that, though, I'm not quite sure what you mean in the closing part of your post. Zach's video was a random funny video that he produced himself. It's not a theory11 product or production. It's also in the "funny stuff" category. We take our work very seriously, but we don't take ourselves too seriously. For an example, check out Daniel Garcia and his shiny new Shake Weight. ;)
     
  19. You said it man. I found this site a few years ago by accident and it too brought back the love of magic to me. I've been practicing again and trying new things out side my comfort zone. If we all spent more time on our magic and not so much on disrespecting others (my opinion) the videos we make might be better and so will the magic. T11 ROCKS!
     
  20. hey everyone i just wanted to ask that if JB could tell us which 1 on 1s which were submited.and i completely agree with jb and mike on this! :D
     
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