TalkMagic

[Sk8r_St3v3]

In response to some responses i recieved to my comments on the thread "Is it our fault Criss Angel is famous?" i thought i would throw this out there. Why can't theory11 be like TalkMagic?

Over at TM i was welcomed into the community when i began magic several months ago. Since then i have always felt welcome, respected, and understood. Any 'arguments' that arose regarding magic were in fact debates, all responded to with mature comments and respect where it was due. I guess it is unfair to say that the T11 forums have a less enjoyable atmosphere, but i get the feeling, regularly when i make posts, that nobody tries very hard to keep their attitudes and opinions mature.

However, there are very many regulars on here that i have come to notice, all of which are very polite and mature beyond their younger ages.

I guess what i'm trying to get at is, why can't Theory11 forums be similiar? There should be no need for the moderators to lock threads that get out of control, its just childish...

In my comments on Criss Angel, i kept each one completely neutral and unaimed at anybody who contested them, and reiterated constantly that they were my opinion. Some of the responses i recieved were unnecessary and immature to say the least.

This just shows why i spend the majority of my time on TalkMagic, from which i have had an incredible amount of help and support with my induction in magic.

This thread is not some poor, weak attempt to say my goodbyes to the forum (as i have seen a lot threads saying) but instead a chance for us to try and reflect on why such bickering has festered here, because i do not see how it is possible among such a thriving, and mostly polite, community.

What do you think guys?

 

[Justice]

What do you think guys?

That you are right.

This problem goes even way back, like 2 years I recall, most people in here are just "attention-wh**es" who loves almost oportunity given to bash and to over dramatise things.

Theory11 thought that more mods were the answer. I think not.

Most Theory11 people are teenagers. What would you expect?

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

Most Theory11 people are teenagers. What would you expect?

I was going to draw attention to this but didn't want anyone to claim i was making a complete contradiction by saying so. Obviously its true, but i have also met many mature teenagers on here too. (I'm twenty next year so i guess im still a teenager too )

I think you are right though, it has a lot to do with the age ranges, on TalkMagic everyone is a lot, lot older and very mature/knowledgable about magic. Plus they are mostly English so thats a huge benefit [Only joking ]

 

[descartes]

In response to some responses i recieved to my comments on the thread "Is it our fault Criss Angel is famous?" i thought i would throw this out there. Why can't theory11 be like TalkMagic?

Over at TM i was welcomed into the community when i began magic several months ago. Since then i have always felt welcome, respected, and understood. Any 'arguments' that arose regarding magic were in fact debates, all responded to with mature comments and respect where it was due. I guess it is unfair to say that the T11 forums have a less enjoyable atmosphere, but i get the feeling, regularly when i make posts, that nobody tries very hard to keep their attitudes and opinions mature.

However, there are very many regulars on here that i have come to notice, all of which are very polite and mature beyond their younger ages.

I guess what i'm trying to get at is, why can't Theory11 forums be similiar? There should be no need for the moderators to lock threads that get out of control, its just childish...

In my comments on Criss Angel, i kept each one completely neutral and unaimed at anybody who contested them, and reiterated constantly that they were my opinion. Some of the responses i recieved were unnecessary and immature to say the least.

This just shows why i spend the majority of my time on TalkMagic, from which i have had an incredible amount of help and support with my induction in magic.

This thread is not some poor, weak attempt to say my goodbyes to the forum (as i have seen a lot threads saying) but instead a chance for us to try and reflect on why such bickering has festered here, because i do not see how it is possible among such a thriving, and mostly polite, community.

What do you think guys?

OK. In all the Criss Angel threads, it was mostly b_08 and Brad who were at each other, with Steerpike joining the fracas late in the game. None of these guys is a teenager. So this immature behavior (in your opinion) is not just some teenagers trying to duke it out outline.

To be honest, you get these kinds of arguments whenever people have strong opinions and try to impose them on others. I would have been more sympathetic to the argument b_08 was trying to make if he didn't imply that those who criticize Criss Angel are doing it out of jealousy or spite. That is a pretty ridiculous argument and Brad jumped on it.

But that's not really what you are asking about is it? I'm guessing that the people on talkmagic either don't forcefully state their opinions or have other places where they feel freer to do so.

Also, as far as Steerpike is concerned, you need to have a thick skin when he is around. Try and look past the anger and see if his arguments have any merit. If you can, fight his assertions with facts. If not don't bother getting into the thread.

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

Well to be honest i kinda just ignored the lot of them, especially the responses to my comments. But if i can keep my arguments neutral and mature, whilst representing my opinions strongly, why can't they?

It's just proves that some people feel they need to belittle others to benefit themselves, which is usually because they have a huge lack of self confidence.

I guess im asking for too much, you are right to say that people will always turn reason into stupidity when they feel strongly about something, but it makes them look far more intelligent and sensible if they can represent their opinions without targeting anyone and keeping a level head.

 

[Justice]

I guess im asking for too much, you are right to say that people will always turn reason into stupidity when they feel strongly about something, but it makes them look far more intelligent and sensible if they can represent their opinions without targeting anyone and keeping a level head.

Well you forget that there are egos to feed. How would they feed their egos without a nice heart warming bash at someone?

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

True, shame they can't be more mature really. I guess they'll understand maturity more as they grow up.

 

[Randy]

Well the Criss angel one was Baller ignoring the facts of life and just running his mouth, then when Brad came and told him he was wrong. He left. Steerpike showed up and went on one of his rants that has nothing to do with anything at all (Kind of like the Ultimate Warriors rants during a promo. Just not as entertaining.). Brad told him he was wrong and Steerpike continued his little tantrum.

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

Quite right, but the real reason i made this thread was that, although the Criss Angel thing is the only time its happened to me, i have seen a lot of immature hating and bickering lately and just thought that it seems to be scaring people off, and offending other quite deeply.

 

[worldwideme]

you know. all the things you are complaining about... I find solutions in this online site...but more often its the hard copy i run to.


www.biblegateway.com


EDIT: this is the extent of my conversation about this. no need to attack my faith.
even if you dont believe. the book still has merit as a life lesson. even though it is so much more.

 

[Slicke]

I agree too, there are some people in this forums that makes debate incompetent ... they start contradicting others but doesn't make any point, that's what i think can't keep a debate or whatever constructive.

 

[scarecrow1]

Quite right, but the real reason i made this thread was that, although the Criss Angel thing is the only time its happened to me, i have seen a lot of immature hating and bickering lately and just thought that it seems to be scaring people off, and offending other quite deeply.

It's just because most of the guys on here are teenagers. Not saying anything against teenagers (I'm 16 myself) but a lot of teenagers are not confident in themselves, and bash others to make themselves feel better. Plus it's an internet forum....so yea. Teenagers forcing their own opinions on others because they believe they know everything, internet forum.....bad combo.


READ THIS: NOT POINTING OUT ANYONE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS POST! DO NOT START A HISSY FIT BECAUSE YOU THINK I'M POINTING OUT SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY!

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

you know. all the things you are complaining about... I find solutions in this online site...but more often its the hard copy i run to.


www.biblegateway.com


EDIT: this is the extent of my conversation about this. no need to attack my faith.
even if you dont believe. the book still has merit as a life lesson. even though it is so much more.

I think you may have misunderstood me, unlike most people on this forum i am attempting to see if we can improve the atmosphere here, in no way at all am i 'complaining'. All of my comments on this forum are perfectly mature and neutral, and i am knowledgable enough to know that it is a waste of time to let negativity get to me.

This thread is merely my attempt to see if we can rectify things in a way and bring them to light where needs be, as i have seen a lot of negativity lately on these boards.

Apologies if that was rather blunt.

It's just because most of the guys on here are teenagers. Not saying anything against teenagers (I'm 16 myself) but a lot of teenagers are not confident in themselves, and bash others to make themselves feel better. Plus it's an internet forum....so yea. Teenagers forcing their own opinions on others because they believe they know everything, internet forum.....bad combo.


READ THIS: NOT POINTING OUT ANYONE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS POST! DO NOT START A HISSY FIT BECAUSE YOU THINK I'M POINTING OUT SOMEONE SPECIFICALLY!

This is true, but part of what i stated in this thread is that on Talkmagic there are many my age and quite a few younger too, so why can't Theory11 forums have a similar level of respectability?

Also, it proves my point that both you and me felt the need to point out we were not targeting anyone, as nearly every other comment on these boards end up with one fall out or another. As a younger teenager i was more mature than this, why can't everyone else be?

 

[Randomwrath]

I'm chiming in here to suggest that actually, argument isn't necessarily a bad thing. Obviously everything has a time and a place, but if everyone on the forum is nice to each other, I think that very little would get done. Only by people telling you you're wrong will you ever stop and question your opinions or your magic. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but during Steerpike's absence, the most controversial topic raised was whether or not WOW looks too gimmicky with the packet. Now it doesn't matter whether or not you agree with Steerpike, but he raises a lot of interesting points. The same goes with Brad. If you get defensive and treat every disagreement as 'needless flaming', you'll never get anywhere. If, however, you take it as an opportunity to see somebody else's view, or to have a look at both sides of something, you will learn.

Now you might be thinking that this is all very well, but there's better ways to present your view than to get angry and shout at each other. This is true in certain circumstances, but really, are you going to sincerely question something when the other person is merely presenting an opinion? The phrase 'so and so needs a kick up the arse' springs to mind. If somebody tries to sweeten up their ideas for you, you are going to smile sweetly and nod your head and go away and forget about it. If you really want to widen your knowledge and improve your magic, learning to accept that people aren't always nice and asking yourself what you can learn from their points is a good idea.

These are my views at least. I would rather be in a community that argues all the time and feel I'm learning something than a community that sugar coats everything and leaves me stuck in one spot. Feel free to disagree with them if you want. I may have just typed a post of complete crap, and would be delighted if you can point out why I'm wrong. But until someone does, this is the way I see things

 

[Wallmott]

I did not see anything wrong with the Criss Angel thread, infact i thought it was a good thread. A forum where everyone agrees would be pretty boring and pointless.

You will have to accept that some people have strong opinions and learn how to handle that.

 

[-Ty]

So the answer to this is now a thread subtly bashing the people who are people bashing? That's seems a bit strange

The way to change this is not to start more threads about it guys. The way to change this behaviour is to move past all this and try to make each post you write worthwhile and contributory, or the very least engaging.

Ty

 

[William Draven]

I think you may have misunderstood me, unlike most people on this forum i am attempting to see if we can improve the atmosphere here...

I'd be very careful using a blanket statement such as "most people" because most people could pertain to anyone up to and including me; and I for one, don't see myself as acting in a manor that is counter productive to the community here.

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

I'm chiming in here to suggest that actually, argument isn't necessarily a bad thing. Obviously everything has a time and a place, but if everyone on the forum is nice to each other, I think that very little would get done. Only by people telling you you're wrong will you ever stop and question your opinions or your magic. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but during Steerpike's absence, the most controversial topic raised was whether or not WOW looks too gimmicky with the packet. Now it doesn't matter whether or not you agree with Steerpike, but he raises a lot of interesting points. The same goes with Brad. If you get defensive and treat every disagreement as 'needless flaming', you'll never get anywhere. If, however, you take it as an opportunity to see somebody else's view, or to have a look at both sides of something, you will learn.

Now you might be thinking that this is all very well, but there's better ways to present your view than to get angry and shout at each other. This is true in certain circumstances, but really, are you going to sincerely question something when the other person is merely presenting an opinion? The phrase 'so and so needs a kick up the arse' springs to mind. If somebody tries to sweeten up their ideas for you, you are going to smile sweetly and nod your head and go away and forget about it. If you really want to widen your knowledge and improve your magic, learning to accept that people aren't always nice and asking yourself what you can learn from their points is a good idea.

These are my views at least. I would rather be in a community that argues all the time and feel I'm learning something than a community that sugar coats everything and leaves me stuck in one spot. Feel free to disagree with them if you want. I may have just typed a post of complete crap, and would be delighted if you can point out why I'm wrong. But until someone does, this is the way I see things

I absolutely agree, but i think it just needs to be toned down a bit, by all means we should argue/debate/discuss and there is nothing wrong in a good old heated argument, facts cited and opinions supported, but when it gets to extremes like i have seen recently around here, it breaks down to immatruity and all of the other reasons stated earlier in this thread.

I did not see anything wrong with the Criss Angel thread, infact i thought it was a good thread. A forum where everyone agrees would be pretty boring and pointless.

You will have to accept that some people have strong opinions and learn how to handle that.

I thought it was good to, and i salute you for responding to my comments in that thread in a respectable manner, compared to those who were not so controlled in their responses.

So the answer to this is now a thread subtly bashing the people who are people bashing? That's seems a bit strange

The way to change this is not to start more threads about it guys. The way to change this behaviour is to move past all this and try to make each post you write worthwhile and contributory, or the very least engaging.

Ty

On the contrary, i created this thread to see if we could bring the unnecessary behaviour to light and encourage people to tone it down a bit. As Wallmott said above, you have to learn how to handle opinions, whether they be unjust, strong or just plain wrong, and we can't come to a resolution for such behaviour if we don't discuss it.

I'd be very careful using a blanket statement such as "most people" because most people could pertain to anyone up to and including me; and I for one, don't see myself as acting in a manor that is counter productive to the community here.

But there should be no need for me to worry about people misinterpreting a grammatical mistake. Like i said, on TalkMagic if i misword myself or can't explain myself fully and it comes out wrong, the guys over there don't rant and rave, but simply point out my error, clear up the true meaning of it, and then discuss my point.

 

[worldwideme]

I think you may have misunderstood me, unlike most people on this forum i am attempting to see if we can improve the atmosphere here, in no way at all am i 'complaining'. All of my comments on this forum are perfectly mature and neutral, and i am knowledgable enough to know that it is a waste of time to let negativity get to me.

This thread is merely my attempt to see if we can rectify things in a way and bring them to light where needs be, as i have seen a lot of negativity lately on these boards.

Apologies if that was rather blunt.

it was blunt. and i feel you misunderstood me.

i was trying to say that if everyone here were to read through that book a couple times. and truly tried to apply it. we'd all be happier. people wouldnt start blindly attacking others. and threads like this one. would be completely unnecessary.

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

people wouldnt start blindly attacking others. and threads like this one. would be completely unnecessary.

So your admitting there is a need for this thread now? Misinterpretation is the number one instigator of all arguments, and i feel that it is one of the most troublesome causes of such hate within these forums.

Unfortunately, similar to the stereotypical 'traditional magician' interpretation that laymen draw from our persona's, the same is the case with Christianity, and all other peaceful religions. If only people could see through all the ancient traditions, historical mistakes and overenthuasiastic believiers, perhaps the whole world could be a better place. But we know better than that, this planet is too far gone for any major break through to be possible in such lines of faith.