The Guardians have a dirty little secret

[djspinndecks]

The other day I took a pack of T11's coveted Guardian playing cards to an IBM which also had SAM members present. I passed the deck around once opened for a review of the cards with some of the local pros... I live in down town Nashville, so yes they are pro's who perform regularly. Here's a quote about the cards from the T11 site..."Never before has a deck of this quality and level of intricacy been produced. Never before has this much attention to detail been manifested through a pack of playing cards." After reading this you can believe I was excited to see this professional quality deck... my hopes were dashed like the wave pool at nashville shores water park. The cards were passed and laughed at. One by one magicians would try different things and take note of the bad design and manufacturing flaws. Then we laughed some more as ridiculous flaws were found within the design and pack itself. I know people argue about the decks card stock... i assure you that this deck is a laughing stock ok bad joke. In other threads it has been mentioned that the USPCC wouldn't compromise their cards for cost and leave things like "air-cushion finish" on the box... heres what some guys from the local IBM discovered with me:

1) The box says rider back... yet there is no rider?

2) The box does not have a protective coating like all other packs (don't put them in a clip)

3) Under light and magnification you can see it does have an "air-cushion finish" however the divots are much smaller, letting less air pass and causing clumping. This is an air-cushion finish, but not the standard finish from a regular pack of bikes.

4) The card stock is thiner than a regular bicycle card. This can be told by touch and handling however we also used a sensitive scale to test its weight... regular bikes win (my roommate is a physicist... to explain the access of such a scale)

5) And maybe the oddest of them all... there isn't a single design copy write anywhere on the deck! In a regular pack you will find a design copyright on the Joker and the tongue flap of the box. This protects the USPCC's design for face cards, aces, box design, jorkers, pips, everything! Its no where in or on the deck and the USPCC wouldn't let that slip I'm sure! But i guess if we want to rip off the guardian deck design its no problem

6) No pip on the Joker... yes this is just a design flaw, but i thought I'd throw it in.

7) The white border is not standard width for any rider back design. It's much thicker and the back of the box does not mirror the back of the cards... which really we don't know if thats standard or not but it limits some tricks.

8) We did find ONE thing that was USPCC standard... the sticker the box was sealed with.

So there ya have it... a little research and some ugly truths about an over priced box of 56 slips of paper. I think the design is interesting and I think the box looks cool, but something is definitely a miss with this deck. Anyone care to hopelessly explain away the top 8 bullets please be my guest.

Statement: "Never before has a deck of this quality and level of intricacy been produced. Never before has this much attention to detail been manifested through a pack of playing cards" -Theory11

Lesson: Don't get cocky and let your Guard(ians) down.

-Spinn

 

[joshua barrett]

i was a bit disappionted today when i picked a regular deck of bikes up, the first i used sense getting guardians... and the regular reds felt so much better and smoother

 

[Phreak]

1) The box says rider back... yet there is no rider? OMG! What are we going to do?

2) The box does not have a protective coating like all other packs (don't put them in a clip) what, the others have a black box coating or something? Is this box what you rely on to take care of your cards?

3) Under light and magnification you can see it does have an "air-cushion finish" however the divots are much smaller, letting less air pass and causing clumping. This is an air-cushion finish, but not the standard finish from a regular pack of bikes. you my friend have far too much free time to measure the size and efficiency of these divots

4) The card stock is thiner than a regular bicycle card. This can be told by touch and handling however we also used a sensitive scale to test its weight... regular bikes win (my roommate is a physicist... to explain the access of such a scale) So this came down to a weight that was so miniscule only a VERY high end scale could tell?

5) And maybe the oddest of them all... there isn't a single design copy write anywhere on the deck! In a regular pack you will find a design copyright on the Joker and the tongue flap of the box. This protects the USPCC's design for face cards, aces, box design, jorkers, pips, everything! Its no where in or on the deck and the USPCC wouldn't let that slip I'm sure! But i guess if we want to rip off the guardian deck design its no problem It's a conspiracy! pffft. And without the copyright written on them, this makes the a poor card?

6) No pip on the Joker... yes this is just a design flaw, but i thought I'd throw it in. then don't

7) The white border is not standard width for any rider back design. It's much thicker and the back of the box does not mirror the back of the cards... which really we don't know if thats standard or not but it limits some tricks. design, design, design. This doesn't effect the quality of card.

8) We did find ONE thing that was USPCC standard... the sticker the box was sealed with. Good eye captain!

 

[Ray]

My guess would be that it wasn't printed in an "official" USPCC print factory thingy.
Maybe someone from the T11 guys could finally clear things up and lift the mystery of the guardians.

Edit:
Calm down phreak... you kind of act like a fanboy. This guy found some interesting points and since I bought 2 decks from a german reseller I wanna know as well what kind of quality they are after all.

 

[joshua barrett]

i too thought the fact they are "rider backs" was strange. maybe this is to add some fimilarity to the cards?

phreak i guess you think the cards are perfect then?

 

[JustinClark]

Not to sound rude but, you have far too much time on your hands. To be quite honest, they're just playing cards.

 

[Phreak]

...Anyone care to hopelessly explain away the top 8 bullets please be my guest...

-Spinn

No i don't think they are perfect... but his critique was poor. But for this big DIRTY SECRET, in his 8 bullets... five of them had to do with design of the cards, nothing to do with quality. I'll lay off, my apologies, it was a bit harsh.

 

[Ray]

Not to sound rude but, you have far too much time on your hands. To be quite honest, they're just playing cards.

I also don't want to sound rude, but:
Nope they are not. Cards are my tool of choice to "work" with,
I pay good money for Guardians, so I'd guess I can expect good quality.

but his critique was poor. But for this big DIRTY SECRET, in his 8 bullets... five of them had to do with design of the cards, nothing to do with quality. I'll lay off, my apologies, it was a bit harsh.

While the title "Dirty Secret" was really not the best title he could think of, he still got valid points which let me doubt the quality T11 promised on the pages:

"Never before has a deck of this quality and level of intricacy been produced. Never before has this much attention to detail been manifested through a pack of playing cards"

They look good. True.
But I say it again: I pay good money for cards I want to work with. If I bought them to have a nice pokergame with my friends I wouldn't mind. But those cards are not ment to be "simple playing cards".
And for the price of 2 (almost 3) normal Bicycle decks, I want good quality... not only a fancy design.

Again I hope a T11 speaker will jump in here to clearify things.

 

[joshua barrett]

while some of the point were not big things, they might be important to him or somone else, and i think everyone must admit there are some strnage inconsistancy's with the cards currently including the cut and finish, the other stuff is more strange then anything, i hope they address the cut and finish and id be content

 

[liquidsn]

you forgot to add in point #9.

9.)I have no life.

 

[criverstamu09]

When I first saw the Guardians, I was hesitant to purchase them, mainly because a standard deck of Bicycle cards work perfectly fine. I was really hoping that someone would put out a review that would shed some light onto the new cards.

I am grateful that someone took the time to help out everyone else. Does it matter that the cards have less air passing through them and that the card stock is thinner and that the border is wider and that the design is different?

The answer is a resounding YES! For those of you who don't believe that the quality of a deck of cards or the design of said deck is important and won't effect your performance, go out and buy a Barbie-backed deck of cards and try to do your regular effects, not to mention any flourishes.

Maybe some of us have way to much time on our hands, but maybe this is more than a hobby you do on the weekend every now and then when you are bored.

Just my two cents.

 

[kissdadookie]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but they are also one way decks with more than one one way markings.

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

while some of the point were not big things, they might be important to him or somone else, and i think everyone must admit there are some strnage inconsistancy's with the cards currently including the cut and finish, the other stuff is more strange then anything, i hope they address the cut and finish and id be content

When I first saw the Guardians, I was hesitant to purchase them, mainly because a standard deck of Bicycle cards work perfectly fine. I was really hoping that someone would put out a review that would shed some light onto the new cards.

I am grateful that someone took the time to help out everyone else. Does it matter that the cards have less air passing through them and that the card stock is thinner and that the border is wider and that the design is different?

The answer is a resounding YES! For those of you who don't believe that the quality of a deck of cards or the design of said deck is important and won't effect your performance, go out and buy a Barbie-backed deck of cards and try to do your regular effects, not to mention any flourishes.

Maybe some of us have way to much time on our hands, but maybe this is more than a hobby you do on the weekend every now and then when you are bored.

Just my two cents.

I agree with both of you. Although you must keep in mind it's the first run, so they obviously won't be perfect.

But I suppose we should hold all our comments and criticism until the second edition comes through, which JBayme says is improved in every way, shape and form. Fingers crossed!

 

[Dana Hocking]

I'll just briefly address some of the concerns voiced here...


1) The box says rider back... yet there is no rider?

Answer: The Guardians are designed to be a modern look at the classic rider back design (we point that out on the Guardians page - "A deck whose design itself stems from the foundation of Bicycle's classic Rider Back design").


2) The box does not have a protective coating like all other packs (don't put them in a clip)

Answer: We use a matte finish. It's an aesthetic choice. Gloss is not more protective, it's just pretty and shiny.


3) Under light and magnification you can see it does have an "air-cushion finish" however the divots are much smaller, letting less air pass and causing clumping. This is an air-cushion finish, but not the standard finish from a regular pack of bikes.

Answer: The press they use for standard bikes doesn't physically allow for the level of detail and intricacy on the Guardian backs. That means that Bicycle has to attempt to duplicate the effects on a different machine. As with any product like this, it requires testing. The next run of Guardians should have a noticeably different finish that responds to humidity more resiliently. It's not that we chose a lower quality stock or finish in the first place; it is instead that there are different stocks and finishes that work better for different things and that we will adjust accordingly to respond to consumer feedback.


4) The card stock is thiner than a regular bicycle card. This can be told by touch and handling however we also used a sensitive scale to test its weight... regular bikes win (my roommate is a physicist... to explain the access of such a scale)

Answer: Again, just like finish, there's not "good" and "bad." Some people prefer the feel of a lighter card stock (Dan and Dave Buck, for example). Bicycle doesn't just ask, do you want good or bad quality? It's about preference and what works for the look and feel you are trying to create.


5) And maybe the oddest of them all... there isn't a single design copy write anywhere on the deck! In a regular pack you will find a design copyright on the Joker and the tongue flap of the box. This protects the USPCC's design for face cards, aces, box design, jorkers, pips, everything! Its no where in or on the deck and the USPCC wouldn't let that slip I'm sure! But i guess if we want to rip off the guardian deck design its no problem

Answer: The design is protected under US copyright law. It's not the little note on the KanYe West CD that says "copyright 2007 by blah blah blah" that makes a copyright legal. Similarly, printing that the Guardian design is copy written does exactly nothing as far as legality is concerned. The design is copy written. The USPCC didn't let anything slip. They just know and understand copyright law.


6) No pip on the Joker... yes this is just a design flaw, but i thought I'd throw it in.

Answer: Calling this a flaw is making the assumption that your subjective interpretation that it is bad somehow translates into an objective value judgment. You don't have to like it, but we did it on purpose because we do.


7) The white border is not standard width for any rider back design. It's much thicker and the back of the box does not mirror the back of the cards... which really we don't know if thats standard or not but it limits some tricks.

A) It is not "much thicker" according to my ruler.

B) What tricks? How?


8) We did find ONE thing that was USPCC standard... the sticker the box was sealed with.

Answer: Okay. Is that good? Bad? Why?


...maybe briefly wasn't the right word.


Dana

 

[orchestrion]

This whole review (if you could even call it that) was done in poor taste. If you're not happy with a product, then go ahead and write a review saying how you didn't like it. Please don't put a negative spin on everything, you end up looking like an ass.

 

[Anonymous002]

2) The box does not have a protective coating like all other packs (don't put them in a clip)

ok something about this....there is no protective coating/finish on a regular bike's box. it is printed on a gloss style stock with gloss ink....this is the first bike box that uses a matte stock and ink...it just doesnt have the shine.(i like it better..less glare!)

so there you have it....no other cards have protective coatings on the box...

 

[btaylor]

I love the fact that the Jokers don't have a pip. I think it looks more professional because calling an angel a "joker" doesn't seem right at all, and no im not religious. And I don't think guys of this calibur would go without noticing a missing pip. Great thought process bud.

 

[dochemlock]

I think he was just telling the truth and the truth hurts. I had high hopes for these. I read the reviews and there were not a lot of good ones. I still tried them. I at first didn't think they were that poor but after a week... I would never buy these again. I like the box and the back design. But the cards themselves are pretty poor quality. To say "They are just cards" is like saying it's just a golf club. It's just a t-shirt. It's just a car. These are tools of a trade. I in all honesty have never had a worse deck. I truly wanted them to be good. They weren't.

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

All we can do is wait and hope that the second edition fixes these glaring quality problems.

 

[MindTrapMagic]

Wow....such a big argument over a deck of cards.....jesus people its a DECK!!! If you dont like them fine, people have opinions. Just let it go.