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The Internet: Silent Killer of Talent?

Hey Steer, stop trying to impress us with your overly ornamented writing style, I haven't seen more adjectives since I've opened my leather-bound dictionary. Please, we all realize that you are somewhat smart but these ego trip posts are getting as old as Speaker Pelosi.

As for the topic at hand, people suck. They always have and always will, the internet has just super charged their suck. You can't get good criticism because the good critics are too busy giving advice to real magicians that don't waste their time on T11 and E. So, to any real magicians out there who happened to stumble upon this site please go on youtube and see what not to do. It is always better to learn form the mistakes of others than to try to follow their success.


-Michael

WOW, little bit of self righteousness hmm?

And hey you suck.



Welcome back steerpike by the way.
 
Dec 17, 2007
858
2
Canada
WOW, little bit of self righteousness hmm?

And hey you suck.



Welcome back steerpike by the way.

Hey Nexus,

Sorry you think I suck. It is a shame that you are a drone because I think you are deep down a smart person you just can't believe everything Steerpike says.

Anyway I will welcome Steerpike back if I choose to, I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him.

Thanks,

-Michael

P.S. If you would like to take cheap shots at me you can PM I am not here to fight but it seems you are.
 
Hey Steer, stop trying to impress us with your overly ornamented writing style, I haven't seen more adjectives since I've opened my leather-bound dictionary. Please, we all realize that you are somewhat smart but these ego trip posts are getting as old as Speaker Pelosi.



-Michael

Holy crap. You're bashing someone for writing well? There's altogether to much "lol wtf u da siko botch!??"-ing going on around here.

lol wtf u da siko botch!?? by the way.

 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Hey Nexus,

Sorry you think I suck. It is a shame that you are a drone because I think you are deep down a smart person you just can't believe everything Steerpike says.

Anyway I will welcome Steerpike back if I choose to, I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him.

Thanks,

-Michael

P.S. If you would like to take cheap shots at me you can PM I am not here to fight but it seems you are.

Why does this remind me of Perez Hilton's quote about what happened between him and the Black Eyed Peas?
 
Dec 17, 2007
858
2
Canada
Holy crap. You're bashing someone for writing well? There's altogether to much "lol wtf u da siko botch!??"-ing going on around here.

lol wtf u da siko botch!?? by the way.


Not bashing Joshua, constructive criticism. You have a tendency to over simplify things. Any I should have sent that to steerpike in a pm, my bad.


-Michael

EDIT: Randy I don't read anything from Perez Hilton.
 
Hey Steer, stop trying to impress us with your overly ornamented writing style, I haven't seen more adjectives since I've opened my leather-bound dictionary. Please, we all realize that you are somewhat smart but these ego trip posts are getting as old as Speaker Pelosi.

Alright, I can understand the ego thing, for godsakes, it is steerpike. Steerpike without an ego is like Wendy's without the beef, but you'd actually fault a man for intelligent writing? Maybe you should open that "Leather-Bound Dictionary" more often.

Anyway I will welcome Steerpike back if I choose to, I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him.

No one said you had to welcome him back either, we simply do it out of respect because more often than anyone else here, he knows what he's talking about, and in my opinion, is kind enough to share.

Sorry you think I suck.

Nexus was simply pointing out what you said:

As for the topic at hand, people suck. They always have and always will,

Unless i'm wrong, he was pointing out the irony in the fact that you proved your own point.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Not bashing Joshua, constructive criticism. You have a tendency to over simplify things. Any I should have sent that to steerpike in a pm, my bad.


-Michael

EDIT: Randy I don't read anything from Perez Hilton.

It had to do with Perez's quote about knowing he was going to piss a guy off, yet still doing it and then end. Crying about being punched in the face.
 
Not bashing Joshua, constructive criticism. You have a tendency to over simplify things. Any I should have sent that to steerpike in a pm, my bad.


-Michael

EDIT: Randy I don't read anything from Perez Hilton.

No simplification here!

"stop trying to impress us with your overly ornamented writing style"

"these ego trip posts are getting as old as Speaker Pelosi"

Yup. That's bashing.
 
Dec 17, 2007
858
2
Canada
Alright, I can understand the ego thing, for godsakes, it is steerpike. Steerpike without an ego is like Wendy's without the beef, but you'd actually fault a man for intelligent writing? Maybe you should open that "Leather-Bound Dictionary" more often.



No one said you had to welcome him back either, we simply do it out of respect because more often than anyone else here, he knows what he's talking about, and in my opinion, is kind enough to share.



Nexus was simply pointing out what you said:



Unless i'm wrong, he was pointing out the irony in the fact that you proved your own point.

Lets call this the sixth post after my original comment, that need not be. Although I was trying to show Steerpike his own asininity which was not part of the thread, I did contribute my view to it. I'd like to thank you for further steering this thread in an off topic direction with a useless post. Keep doing what you are good at.


-Michael


P.S. A word of advice, make excuses for no one but yourself doing otherwise will get you no where in life.

P.P.S. If you would like to learn more about anything you saw here to today PM me. ;) Steerpike raises a good point, it is our job to try and keep the conversation going.

EDIT: Joshua and Randy both posted, lets make that 8.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
But does this really hurt the "art of magic" (man i hate how elitist that *goddamn censorship* sounds)? That some kid out there is getting praised for a bad performance?

Two things. First of all, magic is theater. There is nothing elitist about that. If it were elitist, I'd be trying to keep other people from being a part of it.

Second, it does hurt things when new blood is wasting their potential on a bunch of drooling, sweaty parasites. Not everyone is going to be the next Lance Burton, but there are few things that depress me more than squandered talent and wasted potential.

Hey Steer, stop trying to impress us with your overly ornamented writing style, I haven't seen more adjectives since I've opened my leather-bound dictionary. Please, we all realize that you are somewhat smart but these ego trip posts are getting as old as Speaker Pelosi.

Of all the old people and things in the world, that weak-ass analogy is the best you could come up with? Calling me pompous is the best you could do? Accusing me of trying to impress people is the best you've got?

I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him.

It's hard to convey laughter through text without looking like an idiot, so I'm just going to say that this is comedy gold.

Although I was trying to show Steerpike his own asininity which was not part of the thread, I did contribute my view to it.

Oh please. I receive real criticism from real magicians and mentalists on a regular basis.

The point of this thread was to quantify and qualify a problem so as to help people avoid falling into the trap. You asserted that we should learn from the mistakes of those who came before, but that's what we were already doing. Were you really in so much of a hurry to try and take me down a peg that you completely missed that?
 

Bizzaro

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
464
7
Vegas
www.smappdooda.com
You know me. I'm a bitter, cranky, miserable Slav (in other words, a Slav) with a chip on his shoulder and an axe to grind about some new pet cause every couple of months. I seldom if ever pull a punch and I don't suffer fools gladly. Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of the popular web series "Zero Punctuation" was once quoted as saying in an episode of said series, "[Art] is all for not if it isn't surrounded by self-important bearded tossers who read too much into things for a living." Which is the sum total of my personality.

Zero P is great AND entertaining. If you want a webcomic with bite, might I suggest somethingpositive.net
 
Hey Nexus,

Sorry you think I suck. It is a shame that you are a drone because I think you are deep down a smart person you just can't believe everything Steerpike says.

Anyway I will welcome Steerpike back if I choose to, I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him.

Thanks,

-Michael

P.S. If you would like to take cheap shots at me you can PM I am not here to fight but it seems you are.


Thanks everyone for pointing at stuff in my posts. So I do not think you suck, but was simply pointing out the irony of your post. Second I am offended you would call me a conformist "It is a shame that you are a drone," I actively tell people I dislike with a passion, Conformity in magic and day to day life. Especially Racial conformity. But the topic is the circle and I am the Tangent line head strait of the plane. Math geek reference for ya.

"Anyway I will welcome Steerpike back if I choose to, I don't have to conform with the rest and welcome him."

Oh please, are you trying to be a rebellious guy on the forum, let me clue you in a bit. It isn't working hunny, said with a lisp and in the gayest way possible. I feel you just want attention and you got it, but after this post you will not get mine anymore unless you say something intelligent.

Also like others pointed out it wasn't a cheap shot just simply a poke at what your "intelligent" post stated.


Now back to internet the silent killer, Pondering on that statement.
I think the internet kills talent just like school does. Although there methodology of stripping creativity differ, they both have the same effect. Internet like Steer pointed out, once they get praises they feel like they are the "best." School just gives you very detailed instruction or give you the methodology and you have to follow it, usually these instruction do not leave any room for outside thinking. Therefore it leads to us not exercising our creativity skills and instead wires our brain to imitate others in everything including magic.
 
Jan 22, 2009
16
0
Sweden
Two things. First of all, magic is theater. There is nothing elitist about that. If it were elitist, I'd be trying to keep other people from being a part of it.

Second, it does hurt things when new blood is wasting their potential on a bunch of drooling, sweaty parasites. Not everyone is going to be the next Lance Burton, but there are few things that depress me more than squandered talent and wasted potential.

Didn't say it was elitist, but it sounds elitist to me. I dislike how so many in this forum in general take themselves to seriously and/or try to have the matureity of someone three times their age. I find this phrase, among others, to be one they choose to use very often.

I partially I agree with you on the second point, but I am unsure about one thing. Does it really make a difference where the blind appraisal comes from? Does it matter if it is your friends and family thinking you are great, or some other kid on the internet? Do you not think a kid values what his (grand)parents tell him about his skills than some random on the web?

Will these positive comments affect you in any worse way than having your mom applaud your crappy doulbe-lift? Can anyone really say?
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Didn't say it was elitist, but it sounds elitist to me. I dislike how so many in this forum in general take themselves to seriously and/or try to have the matureity of someone three times their age. I find this phrase, among others, to be one they choose to use very often.

I used to think the same way. Then I pulled my head out of my ass and realized there's a difference between being self-important and respecting what I do.

I partially I agree with you on the second point, but I am unsure about one thing. Does it really make a difference where the blind appraisal comes from? Does it matter if it is your friends and family thinking you are great, or some other kid on the internet? Do you not think a kid values what his (grand)parents tell him about his skills than some random on the web?

Second person to miss the point.

I've already said that this phenomenon is not exclusive to cyberspace, but it's actually much worse here than it is in the real world.
 
Jan 22, 2009
16
0
Sweden
I used to think the same way. Then I pulled my head out of my ass and realized there's a difference between being self-important and respecting what I do.



Second person to miss the point.

I've already said that this phenomenon is not exclusive to cyberspace, but it's actually much worse here than it is in the real world.


For a try at pulling your head out of your ass you did a very half-ass job.
There is a difference, but that was not my point. Self-righteousness and self-respect are two different things entirely. Third person to miss a point - Steerpike.

For a topic with the name "The Internet: silent killer of talent", the real world seems to be a whole other subject entirely. Or did you just give it a random name? In the OP you seem to target the internet pretty much exclusively, I didn't re-read it very closely though.

I was asking you this very question, do you find the stuff going on on the internet worse than what is going on on youtube and forums like this? Instead of giving me a one sentence answer, put that big brain of yours to work and explain why you think this is the case.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I was asking you this very question, do you find the stuff going on on the internet worse than what is going on on youtube and forums like this? Instead of giving me a one sentence answer, put that big brain of yours to work and explain why you think this is the case.

Uh, what? This forum and YouTube are part of the internet. Why on earth would they somehow be separate?

I have on idea what the hell you're even asking me at this point.
 
Dec 22, 2007
567
1
Long Island, New York
S'truth. Two more of YouTube's most notorious, Venomfangx and HowTheWorldWorks do just that. The former openly admitted to it. Both young men are the archetypal "internet celebrity" with Olympian egos and a penchant for bragging about their intelligence and education. If you look at their videos, the comments are a massive circle jerk of bad grammar and ass patting.
Seems like someone is a TF subscriber...:p Venomfang is a tool, but I'll be here to debate you anytime about HTWW being in the same class as Venom :p But the truth is the circle jerking that goes on in the comment sections of those two are irrelevant, I'm sure if every single person said they were wrong, they'd still believe in what they say. I'm getting off track...

The reason why the internet magnifies the fanboyism is the lack of understanding of what is good and what is not. If the fanboys were educated, most of them wouldn't be as head-over-heels in love with the pieces of dog crap they worship, thus leading to harsher criticism of the said pieces of dog crap, and more improvement. It's irony at it's greatest, as the internet is one of the better ways to learn and be exposed to different things. The internet empowers anyone who uses it. But as to how you instill the drive for knowledge into this people (teens mostly) I have no idea. Let's just hope it's the hormones, and they'll actually become productive members of society...one day. Or they could go outside for a while >.<
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan 22, 2009
16
0
Sweden
Uh, what? This forum and YouTube are part of the internet. Why on earth would they somehow be separate?

I have on idea what the hell you're even asking me at this point.

Hahaha, oh my.. That was a bit embarrassing.

I of course meant the difference between the internet (youtube and sites like this) and the real world.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
But the truth is the circle jerking that goes on in the comment sections of those two are irrelevant, I'm sure if every single person said they were wrong, they'd still believe in what they say.

I'm not saying it would change their minds as they're both already pretty far gone. My point is that it exacerbates the problem.

Hahaha, oh my.. That was a bit embarrassing.

I of course meant the difference between the internet (youtube and sites like this) and the real world.

The difference has been illustrated numerous times over. Re-read through the thread and pay attention to everyone's points and arguments. The internet provides a massive audience of instant feedback, most of it useless because it's just empty praise. The danger of showing one's work off an gaining sycophantic hangers-on is always a danger anywhere, but it's magnified online because of the wider exposure and the ability to actively censor any and all criticism. If someone criticizes you face-to-face in real life, there is no "Delete comment" button short of punching them in the face.
 
Ive taken much thought into this the last few months and this is what i came up with.

*Sorry if im repeating some thoughts, i dont have time right now to read the whole topic*

I use dA for my Web page designs, mainly for getting stock images, fonts, inspirations... etc.
Its an awesome site, but alot of people ask for credit they dont deserve there. Ive seen numerous comments like : "Hey, this is good but my take is better see it here link" and often times it sucks hell. Now why is this?

Lets take another example...

I dont want to say im getting big in Web design, but im a born critique(i constantly critique everything, im driving my best friend nuts sometimes :), at first i didnt make sense but as they say, Practice makes perfect and i now understand more because of that, but as always i dont always hit the nail, i sometimes hit my thumb)but so i go about alot of Web design forums and give in my thoughts and share my work.
Now sometimes some guys think that im giving away good thoughts and add me on my msn. These are ususally 12 year old kids that have just started out.

They ask if i could help them code something or help on some things on theyr site. And often times the site is rubbish. Something a 2 year old would do in paint, and the dude calls himself a designer. WTF?

So i start talking to the guy, giving him good stuff, free templates, backgrounds whatever to spice the website up and make is look better.
And what do i get?

*ive been in the business for 4 years, not a long time in my mind i am just starting to scratch the surface. But im a read a holic, i read every tutorial that comes out just to leave something in my mind for the future, the same thing with magic, i just buy stuff that isnt really effects but teach you how to build yourself up*

The little guy starts to shout at me that wtf!?!?!, i can do this better than you, my designs rule, you dont know nothing, you suck *BLOCK* *DELETE*.

Now im a guy who feels sorry for everyone so im stuck with a feeling that did i do something wrong?
And thats what pisses me off, im being generous and the guy just flips.

Whats the cause of this?

Its the fact that young people cant be in one spot anymore, theres so much to do. Our society is going in the direction that people have lots to do, in terms of freetime activities. Swimming, football, soccer, golf etc. Theres so much that young ones cant stay in one place and they want to see that they are doing well in such a small amount of time, they want to be the best right away because they hear that again a miracle child, he can do a gazillion things in his head in a second. They want to be that child.

I was doing the same stuff, until i met magic. Its not something i can do off the bat. I have always loved theatrical work and i can cope well on stage. Thats something i got from my father.

Anyways, the fact is that whats killing talent is the fact that we can spread our work in a mater of second around the world, and get instant feedback.
In old days you had to travel and show everyone your work and you had to be confident that noone would scream you suck every time. That made people push themselves more and make the art they do perfect in theyr eyes and then go and show it to others.



Mikk


*This reply probably isnt the best, i went off course sometimes but i just didnt have the guts to delete it all... So thanks for reading if you did*
 
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